Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

Because other professions work all year. Teachers have a two week winter break, a spring break, a summer break and huge number of additional days off. No other jobs have that many vacation days. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

They aren't vacation days. We aren't paid for those days.

Are Saturdays and Sundays vacation days for you?

Many of us work over the summer, too. We need to maintain certifications, so we take classes. We participate in curriculum writing. We come in early to prep classrooms, prepare content for our initial units, set up what we need for classroom routines. Many of us write dozens of college recommendation letters over the summer, which can take a full work week. Simply put, there's a ton of work, most of which we do because we care and not because we're getting paid. (We often aren't.)

Stop lying. Teachers definitely get paid the same every month between the start of school and the end of school. Those VERY long breaks are paid vacations. Every school holiday is a paid vacation day.

Please don't tell me about my job. I know more about it than you.

I am paid for 195 days spread from August to June. The pay is SPREAD OUT over 12 months. So no, I am not paid for the summer months. I am contracted for 195 days of work, and I am paid for 195 days of work (even though I work far, far, far, far more).

And here's what I'll never understand: if I have it so good, why haven't you joined me already? If teachers have all these glorious perks, why haven't you jumped ship from your job?

I don’t think anyone says you have it “so good”. What they’re saying is you don't have it worse than anyone else, and acting like a victim— especially when obfuscating or exaggerating— doesn’t make sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

Because other professions work all year. Teachers have a two week winter break, a spring break, a summer break and huge number of additional days off. No other jobs have that many vacation days. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

They aren't vacation days. We aren't paid for those days.

Are Saturdays and Sundays vacation days for you?

Many of us work over the summer, too. We need to maintain certifications, so we take classes. We participate in curriculum writing. We come in early to prep classrooms, prepare content for our initial units, set up what we need for classroom routines. Many of us write dozens of college recommendation letters over the summer, which can take a full work week. Simply put, there's a ton of work, most of which we do because we care and not because we're getting paid. (We often aren't.)

Stop lying. Teachers definitely get paid the same every month between the start of school and the end of school. Those VERY long breaks are paid vacations. Every school holiday is a paid vacation day.

Are you really this obtuse? None of the holidays or breaks are paid days for teachers even if they get a complete paycheck. Contracts are 195 days, and none of the holidays count towards the 195 days (just like they don’t count towards the 180 days that students must have). This is why we have seen summer break shorten over the past few years…extra holidays have made the school year get longer, so that we can still have our 180 student days and 195 teacher days.

And FCPS absolutely does pay a different rate to teachers each month, based on how many work hours there were that month. Since there are fewer work hours in months like December and June, hourly “rates” are higher during these months and teachers really get burned if they have to take Leave Without Pay. Not sure how this is legal, but it happens all the time in FCPS.

Ok, riddle me this: You get half of December off, is your paycheck 50% less? If not, that's a paid vacation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

Because other professions work all year. Teachers have a two week winter break, a spring break, a summer break and huge number of additional days off. No other jobs have that many vacation days. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

They aren't vacation days. We aren't paid for those days.

Are Saturdays and Sundays vacation days for you?

Many of us work over the summer, too. We need to maintain certifications, so we take classes. We participate in curriculum writing. We come in early to prep classrooms, prepare content for our initial units, set up what we need for classroom routines. Many of us write dozens of college recommendation letters over the summer, which can take a full work week. Simply put, there's a ton of work, most of which we do because we care and not because we're getting paid. (We often aren't.)

Stop lying. Teachers definitely get paid the same every month between the start of school and the end of school. Those VERY long breaks are paid vacations. Every school holiday is a paid vacation day.

Please don't tell me about my job. I know more about it than you.

I am paid for 195 days spread from August to June. The pay is SPREAD OUT over 12 months. So no, I am not paid for the summer months. I am contracted for 195 days of work, and I am paid for 195 days of work (even though I work far, far, far, far more).

And here's what I'll never understand: if I have it so good, why haven't you joined me already? If teachers have all these glorious perks, why haven't you jumped ship from your job?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, how dare non-Christians celebrate their holidays. Terrible.

Everyone is welcome to celebrate whatever holiday they want.

Let the rest of us go to school.

This.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster - I can't get over the "70 hours" comment. There is 0 way you on average spend 70 hours throughout the school year and if you do, well you need to find a better way to do your job. One random "70 hour" week maybe? but probably very inflated. Might have gotten away with 55-60, but come on.

It’s been explained multiple times, what don’t you understand?

Because some don’t want to understand and they don’t have any frame of reference anyway. The math has been all over DCUM. At this point, it’s no use.

Posters don’t understand that grading and planning can’t get done AT work because teachers are busy with students. It’s a different type of job, one that doesn’t provide the luxury of sitting at a desk getting work done. But if you’ve never experienced that, perhaps it’s hard to imagine.

And some of us have friends or family that are or were teachers and know that 70 hours a week is absurd hyperbole

Okay. I can’t believe I’m trying again:

150 essays at 15 minutes each: 37.5 SUSTAINED hours of grading (that means without breaks, like sleeping or checking DCUM). They need to get back in 10 days, so that’s an extra 3.75 hours of work for 10 days straight for that assignment ALONE. That doesn’t include other assignments, emails, meetings, “other duties as assigned,” data collection and analysis, tutoring… most of which has to be done off hours. Because the work day is spent with the students.

My kid is a Sophomore and hasn't written more than 7 essays their entire FCPS career. I think the hyperboles need to stop. Teachers do a lot but let's not get carried away they have a great work life balance.

I’ll remember my great work/life balance when I’m up at 4am tomorrow grading. I’ll remember it when I’m grading papers throughout the day on Saturday as my family goes to the beach to give me privacy. I’ll remember it when I am writing college recommendation letters Sunday so dozens of students don’t have to panic about upcoming deadlines.

It must be true because a DCUM poster told me so. She knows my job and my responsibilities more than I ever will.

It must also be why teacher retention numbers are in the toilet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster - I can't get over the "70 hours" comment. There is 0 way you on average spend 70 hours throughout the school year and if you do, well you need to find a better way to do your job. One random "70 hour" week maybe? but probably very inflated. Might have gotten away with 55-60, but come on.

It’s been explained multiple times, what don’t you understand?

Because some don’t want to understand and they don’t have any frame of reference anyway. The math has been all over DCUM. At this point, it’s no use.

Posters don’t understand that grading and planning can’t get done AT work because teachers are busy with students. It’s a different type of job, one that doesn’t provide the luxury of sitting at a desk getting work done. But if you’ve never experienced that, perhaps it’s hard to imagine.

And some of us have friends or family that are or were teachers and know that 70 hours a week is absurd hyperbole

Okay. I can’t believe I’m trying again:

150 essays at 15 minutes each: 37.5 SUSTAINED hours of grading (that means without breaks, like sleeping or checking DCUM). They need to get back in 10 days, so that’s an extra 3.75 hours of work for 10 days straight for that assignment ALONE. That doesn’t include other assignments, emails, meetings, “other duties as assigned,” data collection and analysis, tutoring… most of which has to be done off hours. Because the work day is spent with the students.

My kid is a Sophomore and hasn't written more than 7 essays their entire FCPS career. I think the hyperboles need to stop. Teachers do a lot but let's not get carried away they have a great work life balance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster - I can't get over the "70 hours" comment. There is 0 way you on average spend 70 hours throughout the school year and if you do, well you need to find a better way to do your job. One random "70 hour" week maybe? but probably very inflated. Might have gotten away with 55-60, but come on.

It’s been explained multiple times, what don’t you understand?

Because some don’t want to understand and they don’t have any frame of reference anyway. The math has been all over DCUM. At this point, it’s no use.

Posters don’t understand that grading and planning can’t get done AT work because teachers are busy with students. It’s a different type of job, one that doesn’t provide the luxury of sitting at a desk getting work done. But if you’ve never experienced that, perhaps it’s hard to imagine.

And some of us have friends or family that are or were teachers and know that 70 hours a week is absurd hyperbole

Okay. I can’t believe I’m trying again:

150 essays at 15 minutes each: 37.5 SUSTAINED hours of grading (that means without breaks, like sleeping or checking DCUM). They need to get back in 10 days, so that’s an extra 3.75 hours of work for 10 days straight for that assignment ALONE. That doesn’t include other assignments, emails, meetings, “other duties as assigned,” data collection and analysis, tutoring… most of which has to be done off hours. Because the work day is spent with the students.

My kid is a Sophomore and hasn't written more than 7 essays their entire FCPS career. I think the hyperboles need to stop. Teachers do a lot but let's not get carried away they have a great work life balance.

I’ll remember my great work/life balance when I’m up at 4am tomorrow grading. I’ll remember it when I’m grading papers throughout the day on Saturday as my family goes to the beach to give me privacy. I’ll remember it when I am writing college recommendation letters Sunday so dozens of students don’t have to panic about upcoming deadlines.

It must be true because a DCUM poster told me so. She knows my job and my responsibilities more than I ever will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster - I can't get over the "70 hours" comment. There is 0 way you on average spend 70 hours throughout the school year and if you do, well you need to find a better way to do your job. One random "70 hour" week maybe? but probably very inflated. Might have gotten away with 55-60, but come on.

It’s been explained multiple times, what don’t you understand?

Because some don’t want to understand and they don’t have any frame of reference anyway. The math has been all over DCUM. At this point, it’s no use.

Posters don’t understand that grading and planning can’t get done AT work because teachers are busy with students. It’s a different type of job, one that doesn’t provide the luxury of sitting at a desk getting work done. But if you’ve never experienced that, perhaps it’s hard to imagine.

And some of us have friends or family that are or were teachers and know that 70 hours a week is absurd hyperbole

Okay. I can’t believe I’m trying again:

150 essays at 15 minutes each: 37.5 SUSTAINED hours of grading (that means without breaks, like sleeping or checking DCUM). They need to get back in 10 days, so that’s an extra 3.75 hours of work for 10 days straight for that assignment ALONE. That doesn’t include other assignments, emails, meetings, “other duties as assigned,” data collection and analysis, tutoring… most of which has to be done off hours. Because the work day is spent with the students.

My kid is a Sophomore and hasn't written more than 7 essays their entire FCPS career. I think the hyperboles need to stop. Teachers do a lot but let's not get carried away they have a great work life balance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

Because other professions work all year. Teachers have a two week winter break, a spring break, a summer break and huge number of additional days off. No other jobs have that many vacation days. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

They aren't vacation days. We aren't paid for those days.

Are Saturdays and Sundays vacation days for you?

Many of us work over the summer, too. We need to maintain certifications, so we take classes. We participate in curriculum writing. We come in early to prep classrooms, prepare content for our initial units, set up what we need for classroom routines. Many of us write dozens of college recommendation letters over the summer, which can take a full work week. Simply put, there's a ton of work, most of which we do because we care and not because we're getting paid. (We often aren't.)

Stop lying. Teachers definitely get paid the same every month between the start of school and the end of school. Those VERY long breaks are paid vacations. Every school holiday is a paid vacation day.

Are you really this obtuse? None of the holidays or breaks are paid days for teachers even if they get a complete paycheck. Contracts are 195 days, and none of the holidays count towards the 195 days (just like they don’t count towards the 180 days that students must have). This is why we have seen summer break shorten over the past few years…extra holidays have made the school year get longer, so that we can still have our 180 student days and 195 teacher days.

And FCPS absolutely does pay a different rate to teachers each month, based on how many work hours there were that month. Since there are fewer work hours in months like December and June, hourly “rates” are higher during these months and teachers really get burned if they have to take Leave Without Pay. Not sure how this is legal, but it happens all the time in FCPS.

Ok, riddle me this: You get half of December off, is your paycheck 50% less? If not, that's a paid vacation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

Because other professions work all year. Teachers have a two week winter break, a spring break, a summer break and huge number of additional days off. No other jobs have that many vacation days. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

They aren't vacation days. We aren't paid for those days.

Are Saturdays and Sundays vacation days for you?

Many of us work over the summer, too. We need to maintain certifications, so we take classes. We participate in curriculum writing. We come in early to prep classrooms, prepare content for our initial units, set up what we need for classroom routines. Many of us write dozens of college recommendation letters over the summer, which can take a full work week. Simply put, there's a ton of work, most of which we do because we care and not because we're getting paid. (We often aren't.)

Stop lying. Teachers definitely get paid the same every month between the start of school and the end of school. Those VERY long breaks are paid vacations. Every school holiday is a paid vacation day.

Please don't tell me about my job. I know more about it than you.

I am paid for 195 days spread from August to June. The pay is SPREAD OUT over 12 months. So no, I am not paid for the summer months. I am contracted for 195 days of work, and I am paid for 195 days of work (even though I work far, far, far, far more).

And here's what I'll never understand: if I have it so good, why haven't you joined me already? If teachers have all these glorious perks, why haven't you jumped ship from your job?

Never said you got paid for the summer. Spend some of your free time in the summer on a reading comprehension course.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster - I can't get over the "70 hours" comment. There is 0 way you on average spend 70 hours throughout the school year and if you do, well you need to find a better way to do your job. One random "70 hour" week maybe? but probably very inflated. Might have gotten away with 55-60, but come on.

It’s been explained multiple times, what don’t you understand?

Because some don’t want to understand and they don’t have any frame of reference anyway. The math has been all over DCUM. At this point, it’s no use.

Posters don’t understand that grading and planning can’t get done AT work because teachers are busy with students. It’s a different type of job, one that doesn’t provide the luxury of sitting at a desk getting work done. But if you’ve never experienced that, perhaps it’s hard to imagine.

And some of us have friends or family that are or were teachers and know that 70 hours a week is absurd hyperbole

Okay. I can’t believe I’m trying again:

150 essays at 15 minutes each: 37.5 SUSTAINED hours of grading (that means without breaks, like sleeping or checking DCUM). They need to get back in 10 days, so that’s an extra 3.75 hours of work for 10 days straight for that assignment ALONE. That doesn’t include other assignments, emails, meetings, “other duties as assigned,” data collection and analysis, tutoring… most of which has to be done off hours. Because the work day is spent with the students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

Because other professions work all year. Teachers have a two week winter break, a spring break, a summer break and huge number of additional days off. No other jobs have that many vacation days. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

They aren't vacation days. We aren't paid for those days.

Are Saturdays and Sundays vacation days for you?

Many of us work over the summer, too. We need to maintain certifications, so we take classes. We participate in curriculum writing. We come in early to prep classrooms, prepare content for our initial units, set up what we need for classroom routines. Many of us write dozens of college recommendation letters over the summer, which can take a full work week. Simply put, there's a ton of work, most of which we do because we care and not because we're getting paid. (We often aren't.)

Stop lying. Teachers definitely get paid the same every month between the start of school and the end of school. Those VERY long breaks are paid vacations. Every school holiday is a paid vacation day.

Are you really this obtuse? None of the holidays or breaks are paid days for teachers even if they get a complete paycheck. Contracts are 195 days, and none of the holidays count towards the 195 days (just like they don’t count towards the 180 days that students must have). This is why we have seen summer break shorten over the past few years…extra holidays have made the school year get longer, so that we can still have our 180 student days and 195 teacher days.

And FCPS absolutely does pay a different rate to teachers each month, based on how many work hours there were that month. Since there are fewer work hours in months like December and June, hourly “rates” are higher during these months and teachers really get burned if they have to take Leave Without Pay. Not sure how this is legal, but it happens all the time in FCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

Because other professions work all year. Teachers have a two week winter break, a spring break, a summer break and huge number of additional days off. No other jobs have that many vacation days. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

They aren't vacation days. We aren't paid for those days.

Are Saturdays and Sundays vacation days for you?

Many of us work over the summer, too. We need to maintain certifications, so we take classes. We participate in curriculum writing. We come in early to prep classrooms, prepare content for our initial units, set up what we need for classroom routines. Many of us write dozens of college recommendation letters over the summer, which can take a full work week. Simply put, there's a ton of work, most of which we do because we care and not because we're getting paid. (We often aren't.)

Stop lying. Teachers definitely get paid the same every month between the start of school and the end of school. Those VERY long breaks are paid vacations. Every school holiday is a paid vacation day.

Please don't tell me about my job. I know more about it than you.

I am paid for 195 days spread from August to June. The pay is SPREAD OUT over 12 months. So no, I am not paid for the summer months. I am contracted for 195 days of work, and I am paid for 195 days of work (even though I work far, far, far, far more).

And here's what I'll never understand: if I have it so good, why haven't you joined me already? If teachers have all these glorious perks, why haven't you jumped ship from your job?

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Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

Because other professions work all year. Teachers have a two week winter break, a spring break, a summer break and huge number of additional days off. No other jobs have that many vacation days. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

They aren't vacation days. We aren't paid for those days.

Are Saturdays and Sundays vacation days for you?

Many of us work over the summer, too. We need to maintain certifications, so we take classes. We participate in curriculum writing. We come in early to prep classrooms, prepare content for our initial units, set up what we need for classroom routines. Many of us write dozens of college recommendation letters over the summer, which can take a full work week. Simply put, there's a ton of work, most of which we do because we care and not because we're getting paid. (We often aren't.)

Stop lying. Teachers definitely get paid the same every month between the start of school and the end of school. Those VERY long breaks are paid vacations. Every school holiday is a paid vacation day.