Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

Your kid isn’t friends with any of these other kids? That’s weird. I was one of those fast swimmers. I would go from early morning long course practice with my club straight to summer league practice. The summer league practice was much easier and I got to see my friends that only did summer swim. No one was mean about it. Maybe some good natured ribbing about how crazy I was to swim so much but that’s it. Is your kid trying to like run people over in the summer league practice? I didn’t do that because I had already gotten my actual training done. Plus it would be a jerk move.

Nope, older teens just being a-holes. This literally happened at the first practice of the year before they had even started swimming. So my kid won’t go to practice unless she knows a larger group of friends are going to be there. I’m just saying this “culture” of summer swim isn’t always sunshine and roses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many things wrong with this post.

Time trials have to happen BEFORE the first A meet so coaches can set line ups. We have a meet the Monday right after so everyone gets another shot before that first meet happens and then there is a Monday meet every week….

The idea of officials “cheating” is ridiculous.

And filming other kids is gross. And weird. And obsessive.

The Springfield-Burke B Meet (league?) does not have a B meet the Monday after time trials. B Meets are not regulated or governed by NVSL.

So do coaches swim a lot of kids without times at the first A meet? We always have a B meet the Monday after time trials because a lot of kids miss time trials due to other sports wrapping up. A lot of kids will miss this year because SATs are that day.

NVSL team - time trials are Saturday, with makeup session the Monday after. The make up session is for the other sports kids, SATs, etc. The pool is still open to the general membership during makeup time trials and generally not as fast. Makeup time trials on Monday evening have been stormed out too.

The ladder is published and the first A meet is seeded from the ladder. No times, not swimming the A meet. We don’t allow the use of previous years/seasons times either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

The reality is that B meet kids are not the priority. It’s ok if they quit. They aren’t scoring points of dictating the division teams are in. Most teams have giant rosters and fill A meets easily.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

Your kid isn’t friends with any of these other kids? That’s weird. I was one of those fast swimmers. I would go from early morning long course practice with my club straight to summer league practice. The summer league practice was much easier and I got to see my friends that only did summer swim. No one was mean about it. Maybe some good natured ribbing about how crazy I was to swim so much but that’s it. Is your kid trying to like run people over in the summer league practice? I didn’t do that because I had already gotten my actual training done. Plus it would be a jerk move.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

The catch is that the faster you swim, the more meets you get to attend. It works that way all the way up to the Olympics. And it sucks in winter club when a kid has a birthday and changes age groups: yesterday they were at the top of the heap and tomorrow they can't race the fun meet with all their friends that they've practiced months for because they don't have the cut for the next age up.

Even though swimming pits athletes against one another as individuals this way, the coaches, team reps, and other enthusiastic supporters of a successful summer swim team genuinely want the kids to have a good time, learn to be supportive of one another, and feel part of the team. If you are hooked on the idea that only the A meets and the A meet kids matter, then I'm sorry that you seem to have connected with a team that isn't succeeding in its messaging and culture.

And yes, there are kids who leave swim because it turns out that their talents and their interests lie elsewhere. And a bunch of them come back and swim every summer anyway, and they have a great time. Some of them come to A meets they aren't swimming just to be with the team and with their friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many things wrong with this post.

Time trials have to happen BEFORE the first A meet so coaches can set line ups. We have a meet the Monday right after so everyone gets another shot before that first meet happens and then there is a Monday meet every week….

The idea of officials “cheating” is ridiculous.

And filming other kids is gross. And weird. And obsessive.

The Springfield-Burke B Meet (league?) does not have a B meet the Monday after time trials. B Meets are not regulated or governed by NVSL.

So do coaches swim a lot of kids without times at the first A meet? We always have a B meet the Monday after time trials because a lot of kids miss time trials due to other sports wrapping up. A lot of kids will miss this year because SATs are that day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many things wrong with this post.

Time trials have to happen BEFORE the first A meet so coaches can set line ups. We have a meet the Monday right after so everyone gets another shot before that first meet happens and then there is a Monday meet every week….

The idea of officials “cheating” is ridiculous.

And filming other kids is gross. And weird. And obsessive.

The Springfield-Burke B Meet (league?) does not have a B meet the Monday after time trials. B Meets are not regulated or governed by NVSL.

So do coaches swim a lot of kids without times at the first A meet? We always have a B meet the Monday after time trials because a lot of kids miss time trials due to other sports wrapping up. A lot of kids will miss this year because SATs are that day.