I think anyone who wants to move abroad because of things like walkability wants to either live in a more homogenous country or live in one where walkability is more homogeneously understood and/or celebrated. Because there’s plenty of walkability here. There’s community, bikeability, farmer’s markets, good schools, liberal values and conservative values, pick your poison.

The only attribute mentioned about Europe that is truly broken in the US is healthcare. If people move abroad for healthcare (including child-birth and the post recovery time and keeping your job post childcare), I completely understand.

Anonymous wrote:I think the better question for OP is, which other country has a better job market for kids to be graduating into?
Because that is what ultimately parents are concerned about, the end result of K-12, more so than the safety of middle class neighborhoods or the costs of childcare/healthcare for the average person.

What? No. Maybe the average DCUM helicopter/wannabe tiger mom. Many of us actually care about our kids NOW, and what their lives are like NOW. I want my kids to have a happy childhood and I couldn’t be less concerned about the job market they’ll graduate into right now…

I think the better question for OP is, which other country has a better job market for kids to be graduating into?
Because that is what ultimately parents are concerned about, the end result of K-12, more so than the safety of middle class neighborhoods or the costs of childcare/healthcare for the average person.

England

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don’t think my life would be better in any other country and I’m not an American exceptionalism kind of person. The US is a big country and it’s easy to find many locations that have the same qualities PPs have mentioned about European countries especially the Nordic ones. Sure, we’ll never have universal healthcare but that doesn’t impact my family since we have great insurance and always have. We live in an amazing family oriented community that is walkable and bikable, has public transportation and great public schools. Our healthcare options are high quality and plentiful. Lots of parks and nature preserves and community amenities.

If I had to pick another country it would probably be Canada. I like Europe however being so close to the most unstable parts of the world would make me nervous. I like being far away from all of that.

You, my friend, are out of your mind. You can be a 7-11 and get your head blown off in the US at any time of day, anywhere.
Also, you have money which is why you are pretty happy. If you did not live where you are, I am unsure how you would feel about healthcare, etc. And if you lost your job, or a medical emergency happened and you spent your money, I would like to know how you feel then. You see, for 98% of Americans, they don't have your security, thus this thread. Answer OPs question as if you were part of the 98%.

So to all who suggest US is best country in world v. any other to live..

I am also well travelled (Asian by decent), daughter of immigrants who because successful = wealthy. I totally disagree that the US is the best place to live and I have money. A LOT of money.

Here is why:
It is true that in the US the homeless are better off than people realize. The poverty in a lot of countries is at a level that is unimaginable by most Americans. However, the safety nets in many, many developed countries means that while you may not become rich, you aren't going to be on the street either.

The biggest reason why so many people THINK it's best to be in US is because of opportunities. The problem is that while that used to be true, I don't know that it's as true today. The complimentary reason to that is taxes - the argument is that because you have to pay X amount to a socialized state to support insurance, etc. - you have a harder time being rich than you would in the US. That's wrong. YES (esp in Canada) - it's a big bag of $ shelled out for taxes. However, the taxes go directly to a number of things that save you money in the long run like healthcare. YES it is much harder to make a great sum of money in many other developed countries. However, it's a different style of living compared to what you need to live the good life in the US. In the US you better make bank cause if you don't, your life will suck. SUCK. You can have less and while you can't have the good life, your life will not suck.

The last think I want to say is culturally, the US is not the same as it used to be. I know everyone talks about how free and progressive US is, it's not. Things change. Culture changes. We're not the only ones with freedom and progressiveness and I would actually argue that we are not as free and progressive as the reputation suggests we are or ever were. But that's another story.

The point is - you cannot compare living in the US to other places in the world based on money and freedom. You have to look at the practicalities of daily life.

What is your quality of life in terms of happiness balance/safety/health? In terms of the pressures you have as a society to remain safe/healthy/happy. What does your life look like and in the context of this thread - what are the options you have for your kids by way of education/health/happiness for both you and your kids for 18 years? From that perspective, sorry, I would go abroad.

Money is something that can make your life less sucky in the US but you have to have a ton of it. And I mean that sincerely - it's not about what car you drive but about a medical thing that may happen and you have to pay more than you think. About any issue at work and you lose your job - you better have some money saved up! You better be able to work a ton and have family to help you because any nanny will cost $$$$. It's stuff like that that you aren't prepared for and when you live in the US - you are totally on your own.

Pretty much any other developed country. IS this really a question? The US public education sector sucks. The laws that help out families with kids suck. The healthcare system in general sucks (even if you have money and so I guess it's doable if you are rich but if you aren't and can get by on it, it still technically sucks!).

But yeah Western Europe - pick most of them incl Scandinavia. I would even consider E Europe depending on the stability of the country overall.

Asia incl Taiwan, Japan, Malaysia of course. Canada for sure. Latin America - I would just be sure the specific country is stable but yeah, that works better v US too.

If I could take my kids out and leave the US, would do it in a heartbeat. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot or lying. And for the records, my kids are are in private school and I still pretty much feel this way because of the costs and I would much prefer public school for them.

I honestly don’t think my life would be better in any other country and I’m not an American exceptionalism kind of person. The US is a big country and it’s easy to find many locations that have the same qualities PPs have mentioned about European countries especially the Nordic ones. Sure, we’ll never have universal healthcare but that doesn’t impact my family since we have great insurance and always have. We live in an amazing family oriented community that is walkable and bikable, has public transportation and great public schools. Our healthcare options are high quality and plentiful. Lots of parks and nature preserves and community amenities.

If I had to pick another country it would probably be Canada. I like Europe however being so close to the most unstable parts of the world would make me nervous. I like being far away from all of that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The United Kingdom 🇬🇧 .

I have all daughters. There there isn’t a second amendment that codifies bad peoples “ right” to own a gun to possibly kill them in schools, the mall or domestic abuse.

They also provide universal free access to contraceptives, maternal care and abortion.

Childbirth in the UK sounds rough. Air and gas instead of an epidural.

Much lower wages and a dying economy. The future of the UK is bleak. If it were a state, England would be as poor as Mississippi.

Sure, your child has contraceptives and maternal care, but so will your daughter here if she has a job or is married to someone with a job. In terms of abortion, she can have one in most states or travel if necessary. Most women aren’t frequently receiving an abortion.

How does childbirth in the UK “sound rough”? Please share your experience.

I'd like to know this, too. My spouse is from the UK, and they have several friends with children. One had a child same time we did here. We paid 6000 oop high deductible plan. They paid like $20 equivalent for pain medication when they were discharged.

Yeah. PP was randomly throwing around dumb ‘facts’ like no epidurals so I would tend to dismiss everything they said. No doubt some women don’t have great experiences of birth there, just like here. I had two kids under the NHS, one with epidural and one C-section. Hospital had a midwife team integrated with my local doctor’s practice so I had home visits in the 10 weeks before birth then every 4 days for a couple of weeks after birth. No private costs (although obviously I contributed to NHS through general taxes).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The United Kingdom 🇬🇧 .

I have all daughters. There there isn’t a second amendment that codifies bad peoples “ right” to own a gun to possibly kill them in schools, the mall or domestic abuse.

They also provide universal free access to contraceptives, maternal care and abortion.

Childbirth in the UK sounds rough. Air and gas instead of an epidural.

Much lower wages and a dying economy. The future of the UK is bleak. If it were a state, England would be as poor as Mississippi.

Sure, your child has contraceptives and maternal care, but so will your daughter here if she has a job or is married to someone with a job. In terms of abortion, she can have one in most states or travel if necessary. Most women aren’t frequently receiving an abortion.

How does childbirth in the UK “sound rough”? Please share your experience.

I'd like to know this, too. My spouse is from the UK, and they have several friends with children. One had a child same time we did here. We paid 6000 oop high deductible plan. They paid like $20 equivalent for pain medication when they were discharged.