Anonymous
09/27/2024 18:25
Subject: Re:Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Colleges over admit usually for math talent and under admit for artistic and creative talent. The rush to get every student through Vector calc before finishing high school is stupid.
There is no rush to get "every kid" through, and colleges aren't preferentially admitting the tiny, tiny few that do anyway, unless they have substantive achievements. The pressure for Asian kids to take vector calc is coming from parents whose see kids NOT getting in, and think that pushing ahead will help because they have experience in the Chinese or Indian system of college admissions.
Also, vector calc is hard for a math scholar to learn in high school. A generation or two ago, a kid on track for that would skip a year of high school and go to college early. Now, we let the kids stay in high school, which is good.
Vector(multivariable) calc is a common math track taught in high school by phDs at the top private and public schools in Boston and NYC and per my sibling in Virginia, is taught in their kid’s public magnet and about 30 students a year are on that track. It is about one third of the private school graduating class up in my area. When mine went off to their T10s and my sibling’s kids went to an ivy they found that in their premed/engineering classes more than half of their new freshman friends had taken vector calc in HS. What was rare was the kids who had vector in 11th and then by the end of 12th had diffEQ and linear and proof type math. This group overwhelmingly is international, especially canada. For my prelaw kid at his T10 it was not as common but many had.
The experience of vector calc in HS does not move the needle because colleges only judge you on what is offered. But make no mistake, it is not at all rare for freshman in college to have already taken post-calculus math as a regular part of their high school curriculum. No pushy moms needed: the curricula are designed that way and have been since my kids were in the elementary portion of their k-12, or about 2011
First of all, there is no such thing as “pre-law.”” Second, why is advanced calculus relevant to “pre-law?”
Anonymous
09/27/2024 18:21
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:From Reddit:
The hardest math class at my university is disproportionately legacies with several donor kids.
Fluff
It’s fascinating, really, and seems to defy all popular notions.
There’s a math class at my T5 school that’s supposed to be like the hardest undergraduate math class. It’s a cult all on its own, where the kids who are true math nerds and geniuses go to prove their skills basically, and they get shirts that say “I survived ____ class.” All the RSI kids, the ISEF and IMO kids, the kids who want to show that they’re the best at STEM, take this class.
Half the kids drop the class by the end because the crushing high-level, high-time commitment workload is designed to overwhelm and weed people out.
The fascinating thing is that this class is pretty small and has more legacies than most classes in the school. I have several friends in this class, and the amount of legacies is disproportionately high, with a few more donor kids than normal mixed in, too. The amount of wealth is that classroom is crazy considering it’s a class for the nerdiest, most driven and aggressive STEM kids, who I guess are largely legacy.
They are talking about Math55, purportedly the hardest undergraduate freshman math in the country. There is such a huge prejudice against legacy, wealth, and privilege. How do you think the parents achieved their status with a low IQ?
Math 55 was gutted 10 years ago and replaced with a normal math class that just decided to gives 1 credit for taking 2 regular classes bundled together (probably to discourage DCUM-style students who want to tack up easy credits and graduate early),and segregates first years from other students.
The IMO kids are at MIT, not Harvard.
ISEF is pay to play, not a showcase of math talent.
I don't believe at all that that kid who isn't even in the class knows who the "donor kids" are.
Harvard's advanced math students don't care about "STEM". They care about math
the smartest math kids go to MIT. Just look at the national math competitions.
https://news.mit.edu/2024/four-peat-mit-students-first-place-putnam-math-competition-0301
Just a note- no Putnam is not the “smartest math kids” but the smartest math competition kids. It seems trivial, but they are very different.
There’s a ton of amazing talent at math by Princeton, Caltech, Berkeley and Uchicago, but very few are committing to Putnam. MIT had a student who connected a ton of people together that created a chain of IMO kids going to MIT (basically guaranteed admit) and destroying Putnam.
Anonymous
09/27/2024 18:19
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A math teacher I know said it's not just COVID but also Photomath and chatGPT which is leading to a generation that isn't 'doing the work' in math and too reliant on assistance.
How can that be when those things are way too new for current college kids to have become reliant on them before college?
Photomath was here in spring 2020 when current seniors were in 8th grade.
Anonymous
09/27/2024 18:13
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:From Reddit:
The hardest math class at my university is disproportionately legacies with several donor kids.
Fluff
It’s fascinating, really, and seems to defy all popular notions.
There’s a math class at my T5 school that’s supposed to be like the hardest undergraduate math class. It’s a cult all on its own, where the kids who are true math nerds and geniuses go to prove their skills basically, and they get shirts that say “I survived ____ class.” All the RSI kids, the ISEF and IMO kids, the kids who want to show that they’re the best at STEM, take this class.
Half the kids drop the class by the end because the crushing high-level, high-time commitment workload is designed to overwhelm and weed people out.
The fascinating thing is that this class is pretty small and has more legacies than most classes in the school. I have several friends in this class, and the amount of legacies is disproportionately high, with a few more donor kids than normal mixed in, too. The amount of wealth is that classroom is crazy considering it’s a class for the nerdiest, most driven and aggressive STEM kids, who I guess are largely legacy.
They are talking about Math55, purportedly the hardest undergraduate freshman math in the country. There is such a huge prejudice against legacy, wealth, and privilege. How do you think the parents achieved their status with a low IQ?
Bill Gates took Math55 and got a B. Zuckerberg only took Math25 which is no joke either. It’s just amazing there are so many options for freshmen to take from 18 to 55.
Anonymous
09/27/2024 16:43
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:A math teacher I know said it's not just COVID but also Photomath and chatGPT which is leading to a generation that isn't 'doing the work' in math and too reliant on assistance.
How can that be when those things are way too new for current college kids to have become reliant on them before college?
Anonymous
09/27/2024 08:36
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
DC went to rmib and said there were about 60 kids in their mvc class. A lot took the umd mvc exam. DC passed. Not sure about the pass rate.
Anonymous
09/08/2024 10:48
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
^vector calc experience is not rare at TOP schools/ivy/+; maybe vector in HS is rare at the Sunys or UVA
Anonymous
09/08/2024 10:45
Subject: Re:Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Colleges over admit usually for math talent and under admit for artistic and creative talent. The rush to get every student through Vector calc before finishing high school is stupid.
There is no rush to get "every kid" through, and colleges aren't preferentially admitting the tiny, tiny few that do anyway, unless they have substantive achievements. The pressure for Asian kids to take vector calc is coming from parents whose see kids NOT getting in, and think that pushing ahead will help because they have experience in the Chinese or Indian system of college admissions.
Also, vector calc is hard for a math scholar to learn in high school. A generation or two ago, a kid on track for that would skip a year of high school and go to college early. Now, we let the kids stay in high school, which is good.
Vector(multivariable) calc is a common math track taught in high school by phDs at the top private and public schools in Boston and NYC and per my sibling in Virginia, is taught in their kid’s public magnet and about 30 students a year are on that track. It is about one third of the private school graduating class up in my area. When mine went off to their T10s and my sibling’s kids went to an ivy they found that in their premed/engineering classes more than half of their new freshman friends had taken vector calc in HS. What was rare was the kids who had vector in 11th and then by the end of 12th had diffEQ and linear and proof type math. This group overwhelmingly is international, especially canada. For my prelaw kid at his T10 it was not as common but many had.
The experience of vector calc in HS does not move the needle because colleges only judge you on what is offered. But make no mistake, it is not at all rare for freshman in college to have already taken post-calculus math as a regular part of their high school curriculum. No pushy moms needed: the curricula are designed that way and have been since my kids were in the elementary portion of their k-12, or about 2011
Anonymous
09/08/2024 10:32
Subject: Re:Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:What math does the extended math course cover? Is it calculus just slowed down bc are 5 days v 3? Or is it going backwards and is covering algebra or geometry or algebra II? If in pages before, sorry to ask - I admittedly only read about half answers before posting here.
It is slowed-down Math MA which is essentially precalculus. The new course MAS is slowed down precalc to cover Alg/geo more thoroughly. Harvard’s version of a normal calculus sequence starts after math MA: the vast majority of freshman for decades start past math MA, some well past. The new course is a slowed down version of the slowest start they used to have.
The need for this course reflects a need for a course for a growing larger and less prepared group of freshman who are at the bottom of the typical entering harvard range that are being admitted: it has nothing to do with rushing through calc to get to vector calc in HS, which even at ivies remains the top group of entering freshman math experience. It may be 1/3 or more now and used to be less, but that is not the group that math MAS or even math MA is for. Those kids would just repeat part or all of the regular calc sequence.
Anonymous
09/08/2024 09:16
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:From Reddit:
The hardest math class at my university is disproportionately legacies with several donor kids.
Fluff
It’s fascinating, really, and seems to defy all popular notions.
There’s a math class at my T5 school that’s supposed to be like the hardest undergraduate math class. It’s a cult all on its own, where the kids who are true math nerds and geniuses go to prove their skills basically, and they get shirts that say “I survived ____ class.” All the RSI kids, the ISEF and IMO kids, the kids who want to show that they’re the best at STEM, take this class.
Half the kids drop the class by the end because the crushing high-level, high-time commitment workload is designed to overwhelm and weed people out.
The fascinating thing is that this class is pretty small and has more legacies than most classes in the school. I have several friends in this class, and the amount of legacies is disproportionately high, with a few more donor kids than normal mixed in, too. The amount of wealth is that classroom is crazy considering it’s a class for the nerdiest, most driven and aggressive STEM kids, who I guess are largely legacy.
They are talking about Math55, purportedly the hardest undergraduate freshman math in the country. There is such a huge prejudice against legacy, wealth, and privilege. How do you think the parents achieved their status with a low IQ?
Math 55 was gutted 10 years ago and replaced with a normal math class that just decided to gives 1 credit for taking 2 regular classes bundled together (probably to discourage DCUM-style students who want to tack up easy credits and graduate early),and segregates first years from other students.
The IMO kids are at MIT, not Harvard.
ISEF is pay to play, not a showcase of math talent.
I don't believe at all that that kid who isn't even in the class knows who the "donor kids" are.
Harvard's advanced math students don't care about "STEM". They care about math
the smartest math kids go to MIT. Just look at the national math competitions.
https://news.mit.edu/2024/four-peat-mit-students-first-place-putnam-math-competition-0301
Anonymous
09/08/2024 08:47
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
The ability to learn concepts in math and apply them to solving math problems really should be acknowledged as the ability to use critical thinking and analytical skills. Those skills are valuable for many careers, not just STEM. The problem with the K12 educational systems extends way beyond whether or not kids are learning math before college. The fact that Harvard and other universities are not using tools that assess critical thinking for admissions is the bigger issue. Or perhaps they have to put butts in seats and the pickings are slim. This stuff is the tip of the iceberg- don’t fool yourselves the US is in big trouble. I fear for my grandchildren and future generations beyond that.
Anonymous
09/08/2024 08:28
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
A math teacher I know said it's not just COVID but also Photomath and chatGPT which is leading to a generation that isn't 'doing the work' in math and too reliant on assistance.
Anonymous
09/08/2024 08:12
Subject: Re:Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
What math does the extended math course cover? Is it calculus just slowed down bc are 5 days v 3? Or is it going backwards and is covering algebra or geometry or algebra II? If in pages before, sorry to ask - I admittedly only read about half answers before posting here.
Anonymous
09/08/2024 08:07
Subject: Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
The sense of superiority in many of these threads is just over the top. Some of you are pathological.
Anonymous
09/08/2024 08:03
Subject: Re:Harvard Instituting Remedial Math Class
Anonymous wrote:Colleges over admit usually for math talent and under admit for artistic and creative talent. The rush to get every student through Vector calc before finishing high school is stupid.
There is no rush to get "every kid" through, and colleges aren't preferentially admitting the tiny, tiny few that do anyway, unless they have substantive achievements. The pressure for Asian kids to take vector calc is coming from parents whose see kids NOT getting in, and think that pushing ahead will help because they have experience in the Chinese or Indian system of college admissions.
Also, vector calc is hard for a math scholar to learn in high school. A generation or two ago, a kid on track for that would skip a year of high school and go to college early. Now, we let the kids stay in high school, which is good.