Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

So, one poster here. Okay. If you’ve read the thread, it has been well established —over and over again — how rare this salary is, even in DCPS (the highest paid region).

I suppose I should judge every profession by its highest paid representative? So every lawyer makes 7 figures? Every one!

Exactly. A first year DCPS teacher makes $57k or $61 if they have a masters. Not exactly living on champagne and caviar in DC on that salary. You'd be lucky to afford an apartment without roommates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

This thread dis not about teachers "anywhere." It's about teachers in DCPS, who make more than teachers elsewhere. It's very frustrating that teachers from other jurisdictions keep coming into the thread and getting mad and saying "but I am not well paid!" Yes, well, we aren't talking about you. As a profession, teachers absolutely ARE underpaid. Teachers in red states often make what are essentially poverty wages because of underinvestment in education. It's a real problem.

But teachers in DCPS are among the highest paid in the country. And yes, some of that pay is due to bonuses for being "highly effective" and that's not guaranteed, but some teachers absolutely avail themselves of it and yes there are teachers who meet the requirement.

ECE teachers in DCPS are particularly well paid. If you have a master degree in early childhood education, you can make over 100k within 10 years of teaching. That's amazing. Go talk to preschool and kindergarten teachers in other areas and ask how that sounds to them. DCPS has invested heavily in its ECE programs and that shows up in an incredibly strong ECE offering throughout the system, even at schools that really struggle with the upper grades, and some phenomenally good ECE instruction. This is not a criticism, it's actually evidence of what can happen if you are willing to financially reward top performers.

Anyway, this thread is not about the average teaching salary. It's not even about the average teaching salary in DCPS, because averaging everyone's salaries across the whole system would be incredibly misleading, given how much pay can vary depending on credentials, impact, and tenure. The thread is about the fact (and it is a fact) that DCPS actually pays teachers pretty well. That doesn't mean teaching in DCPS is easy, that the district is well run, or even that DCPS teachers don't deserve more in an absolute sense based on the vital service they perform.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

So, one poster here. Okay. If you’ve read the thread, it has been well established —over and over again — how rare this salary is, even in DCPS (the highest paid region).

I suppose I should judge every profession by its highest paid representative? So every lawyer makes 7 figures? Every one!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dcps teacher here, making $130k. I’m definitely very well paid, and most students, parents and admin would say I’m a very good teacher. But - it took me many years to figure out how to balance work/life, which is something that seems particularly hard for many teachers, especially younger ones. It’s easy to become over-consumed with the amount of tasks that you’re responsible for as a teacher, and it’s particularly important in dcps to be able know how to navigate through much of the bs that the district dumps on teachers. I see many many teachers become overwhelmed with the job’s demands. This, combined with the stress of impact, and the fact that most teachers are not at the top of the pay scale, makes me completely understand why many teachers run away from dcps, or at least feel underpaid.

Again, this is not unique to the teaching profession.

Many other professionals face the same challenges for the same or less salary. And without summer, winter, and spring breaks to recharge.

Then, why are there shortages of teachers in relation to other professions?

Because there are many more options for young people exiting college than ever before. Those options are more exciting, flexible and offer the possibility of real wealth. Young people aren't considering the benefits of a 60K job with 2-3% increases per year and a pension as a big win. Plus, people (like too many on this forum) are constantly dumping on teachers.

DCUM isn’t going to accept that 1) teaching is extremely hard work and 2) teachers are underpaid.

Ask high schoolers if they want to teach. They LAUGH and say they don’t want to be that disrespected and overworked. The kids get it. So no, they aren’t going to become teachers. And currently teachers are burning out at record rates.

DCUM posters have some nostalgic memory of sitting in classrooms. They have no clue what a modern classroom is like and what teachers have to do to survive in one.

And many teachers have no idea what it's like outside the classroom and what kinds of stressors others are facing, in many cases for the same or less salary.

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dcps teacher here, making $130k. I’m definitely very well paid, and most students, parents and admin would say I’m a very good teacher. But - it took me many years to figure out how to balance work/life, which is something that seems particularly hard for many teachers, especially younger ones. It’s easy to become over-consumed with the amount of tasks that you’re responsible for as a teacher, and it’s particularly important in dcps to be able know how to navigate through much of the bs that the district dumps on teachers. I see many many teachers become overwhelmed with the job’s demands. This, combined with the stress of impact, and the fact that most teachers are not at the top of the pay scale, makes me completely understand why many teachers run away from dcps, or at least feel underpaid.

Again, this is not unique to the teaching profession.

Many other professionals face the same challenges for the same or less salary. And without summer, winter, and spring breaks to recharge.

Then, why are there shortages of teachers in relation to other professions?

Because there are many more options for young people exiting college than ever before. Those options are more exciting, flexible and offer the possibility of real wealth. Young people aren't considering the benefits of a 60K job with 2-3% increases per year and a pension as a big win. Plus, people (like too many on this forum) are constantly dumping on teachers.

DCUM isn’t going to accept that 1) teaching is extremely hard work and 2) teachers are underpaid.

Ask high schoolers if they want to teach. They LAUGH and say they don’t want to be that disrespected and overworked. The kids get it. So no, they aren’t going to become teachers. And currently teachers are burning out at record rates.

DCUM posters have some nostalgic memory of sitting in classrooms. They have no clue what a modern classroom is like and what teachers have to do to survive in one.

Anonymous wrote:Dcps teacher here, making $130k. I’m definitely very well paid, and most students, parents and admin would say I’m a very good teacher. But - it took me many years to figure out how to balance work/life, which is something that seems particularly hard for many teachers, especially younger ones. It’s easy to become over-consumed with the amount of tasks that you’re responsible for as a teacher, and it’s particularly important in dcps to be able know how to navigate through much of the bs that the district dumps on teachers. I see many many teachers become overwhelmed with the job’s demands. This, combined with the stress of impact, and the fact that most teachers are not at the top of the pay scale, makes me completely understand why many teachers run away from dcps, or at least feel underpaid.

So, I left DCPS under the old contract and was tapped out at $119,000. At that salary and for the job I did- I would have never said I was very well paid.

I took a 40% paycut and now teach at a Big 3 private. Now, I’d say without a doubt that I’m paid very well based on the job I perform.

I am curious if the pp I’ve quoted is a preschool teacher in DCPS or a bogus ‘coach’. Those folks are extremely well paid at $130,000 for their jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dcps teacher here, making $130k. I’m definitely very well paid, and most students, parents and admin would say I’m a very good teacher. But - it took me many years to figure out how to balance work/life, which is something that seems particularly hard for many teachers, especially younger ones. It’s easy to become over-consumed with the amount of tasks that you’re responsible for as a teacher, and it’s particularly important in dcps to be able know how to navigate through much of the bs that the district dumps on teachers. I see many many teachers become overwhelmed with the job’s demands. This, combined with the stress of impact, and the fact that most teachers are not at the top of the pay scale, makes me completely understand why many teachers run away from dcps, or at least feel underpaid.

Again, this is not unique to the teaching profession.

Many other professionals face the same challenges for the same or less salary. And without summer, winter, and spring breaks to recharge.

Then, why are there shortages of teachers in relation to other professions?

well, for DCPS at least, I can imagine that having your job on the chopping block every year because some person in a political position decided to have some new initiatives and under fund schools may be a reason you wouldn't find security in teaching ....

I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dcps teacher here, making $130k. I’m definitely very well paid, and most students, parents and admin would say I’m a very good teacher. But - it took me many years to figure out how to balance work/life, which is something that seems particularly hard for many teachers, especially younger ones. It’s easy to become over-consumed with the amount of tasks that you’re responsible for as a teacher, and it’s particularly important in dcps to be able know how to navigate through much of the bs that the district dumps on teachers. I see many many teachers become overwhelmed with the job’s demands. This, combined with the stress of impact, and the fact that most teachers are not at the top of the pay scale, makes me completely understand why many teachers run away from dcps, or at least feel underpaid.

Again, this is not unique to the teaching profession.

Many other professionals face the same challenges for the same or less salary. And without summer, winter, and spring breaks to recharge.

Then, why are there shortages of teachers in relation to other professions?

Because there are many more options for young people exiting college than ever before. Those options are more exciting, flexible and offer the possibility of real wealth. Young people aren't considering the benefits of a 60K job with 2-3% increases per year and a pension as a big win. Plus, people (like too many on this forum) are constantly dumping on teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dcps teacher here, making $130k. I’m definitely very well paid, and most students, parents and admin would say I’m a very good teacher. But - it took me many years to figure out how to balance work/life, which is something that seems particularly hard for many teachers, especially younger ones. It’s easy to become over-consumed with the amount of tasks that you’re responsible for as a teacher, and it’s particularly important in dcps to be able know how to navigate through much of the bs that the district dumps on teachers. I see many many teachers become overwhelmed with the job’s demands. This, combined with the stress of impact, and the fact that most teachers are not at the top of the pay scale, makes me completely understand why many teachers run away from dcps, or at least feel underpaid.

Again, this is not unique to the teaching profession.

Many other professionals face the same challenges for the same or less salary. And without summer, winter, and spring breaks to recharge.

Then, why are there shortages of teachers in relation to other professions?

I dont think that's unique to teaching. The unemployment rate is currently 3.7 percent, which means that basically everyone who is able to work and wants a job already has a job. Hard for anyone to hire in that environment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dcps teacher here, making $130k. I’m definitely very well paid, and most students, parents and admin would say I’m a very good teacher. But - it took me many years to figure out how to balance work/life, which is something that seems particularly hard for many teachers, especially younger ones. It’s easy to become over-consumed with the amount of tasks that you’re responsible for as a teacher, and it’s particularly important in dcps to be able know how to navigate through much of the bs that the district dumps on teachers. I see many many teachers become overwhelmed with the job’s demands. This, combined with the stress of impact, and the fact that most teachers are not at the top of the pay scale, makes me completely understand why many teachers run away from dcps, or at least feel underpaid.

Again, this is not unique to the teaching profession.

Many other professionals face the same challenges for the same or less salary. And without summer, winter, and spring breaks to recharge.

Then, why are there shortages of teachers in relation to other professions?

Anonymous wrote:Dcps teacher here, making $130k. I’m definitely very well paid, and most students, parents and admin would say I’m a very good teacher. But - it took me many years to figure out how to balance work/life, which is something that seems particularly hard for many teachers, especially younger ones. It’s easy to become over-consumed with the amount of tasks that you’re responsible for as a teacher, and it’s particularly important in dcps to be able know how to navigate through much of the bs that the district dumps on teachers. I see many many teachers become overwhelmed with the job’s demands. This, combined with the stress of impact, and the fact that most teachers are not at the top of the pay scale, makes me completely understand why many teachers run away from dcps, or at least feel underpaid.

Again, this is not unique to the teaching profession.

Many other professionals face the same challenges for the same or less salary. And without summer, winter, and spring breaks to recharge.