Anonymous wrote:Why is this AAP, its selection, the arguments that follow so complicated? Why can't they categorize kids based on their report/grade cards every year and compartmentalize into separate classes? Maybe add Cogat/NNAT kinds of questions as part of regular grading. Each year based on how the student performs, their class next year should change. That way nobody gets to be in the gifted or non-gifted bucket.

Those CogAT and NNAT questions aren't something they would encounter in school; they are to assess aptitude, not school achievement. They also have been designed to reduce the language component as much as possible so as to not disadvantage kid who don't read well in English. But the AAP packages do include iReady scores and report cards now.

Why is this AAP, its selection, the arguments that follow so complicated? Why can't they categorize kids based on their report/grade cards every year and compartmentalize into separate classes? Maybe add Cogat/NNAT kinds of questions as part of regular grading. Each year based on how the student performs, their class next year should change. That way nobody gets to be in the gifted or non-gifted bucket.

Anonymous wrote:Newbie here. My kid has a composite score of 138 (99th) and a quantitative score of 150 (99th, looks like he only missed one question). His verbal is good but not AAP good (126, 96th when age based but only 92nd for grade based because he is a young summer birthday). His nonverbal was a weakness (scored 110, only 70th for age based and 68th for grade based).

What are his chances? Don't know what his teacher form will say, he is a rule follower and not a behavioral concern but he is "bouncy" and chatty and kind of socially awkward (but never mean...) , probably has ADHD honestly

Last year, DS had similar (137, Quant of 141, I think same verbal, and a little higher NV), and a lot of same tendencies in class, but more behavioral issues than you encountered. Wasnt diagnosed ADHD until after admissions, but was accepted as LIV in first round. We supplemented with good writing sample that we worked on the week prior, and doubled down on math strength and our parent statements focussed on his competitive nature and needing good role models in class (apparently you can't say bored or you'll be flagged). I thought he was borderline and glad he got in because in similar cases, I've heard they recommend you for III for math only push-ins. Best of luck!

Anonymous wrote:Vendor administering Cogat had technical issues on first day and students in 2nd grade in FCPS started the Verbal section late, then following two days of test got postponed for a week or so. Everywhere I check, it says grade 2 Cogat is a total of 154 questions. Test scores for my daughter shows only 138 questions with the Verbal only having 36 questions. Vendor won't comment and school says FCPS actually administers a special shortened version of the test. However, the percentile ranks are based on a nationally represented sample. How can scores over 154 questions be compared to those over 138? Am I missing anything here? Can anyone confirm that their 2nd grade Cogat test scores in FCPS only had 36 questions attempted for the Verbal section? Thanks.

The bolded is true. FCPS has had it's own CogAT form since a scandal several years ago.

Vendor administering Cogat had technical issues on first day and students in 2nd grade in FCPS started the Verbal section late, then following two days of test got postponed for a week or so. Everywhere I check, it says grade 2 Cogat is a total of 154 questions. Test scores for my daughter shows only 138 questions with the Verbal only having 36 questions. Vendor won't comment and school says FCPS actually administers a special shortened version of the test. However, the percentile ranks are based on a nationally represented sample. How can scores over 154 questions be compared to those over 138? Am I missing anything here? Can anyone confirm that their 2nd grade Cogat test scores in FCPS only had 36 questions attempted for the Verbal section? Thanks.

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Anonymous wrote:According to this group the NNAT is the least-reliable and least-regarded metric. Who knows if that's true 🤷

It’s not according to this group. The AAP equity report showed it to be the least reliable metric. The committee knows this.

The equity report states that blacks and hispanics score higher on GBRS than expected, given their IQ test scores. To me that means teachers are arbitrarily rating minority kids higher. That same report states asians are "disproportionally overrepresented", even though that group scored the highest on the standardized tests. The report was clearly written by people with an agenda.

However, I would guess the PP is correct. NNAT and CoGat really don't matter that much. It's all about the teacher's opinion (GBRS/HOPE)

To others, that means that they are not prepping their kids for standardized tests and likely need AAP even though their test scores are lower.

As it is, there is not way to justify this statement, but if "prepping" makes all the difference, let's have the schools prepare all the kids for the test and choose the ones who prepped best because that's more akin to how they will perform in the program. Preparation = improved performance

The gifted program is for gifted students. Not all students who are academically focused overachievers are gifted. Prepping for a psychoeducational evaluation completely defeats the purpose and renders the results invalid. If you enrolled your kid in cogat prep or in any way prepped them for it, the score is completely meaningless.

AAP is not exclusively for gifted students though; if it were, there would be a much smaller percentage of students accepted, not 20%+.

AAP is for ALL students who are willing to put in the effort for advanced academics. Racists keep repeating its exclusively for their kids whom they want to be called gifted. Thankfully FCPS is working on deleting the racist word "gifted" from all AAP literature.

How exactly is the word gifted racist? Please do share.

PP who commented on AAP not being only for the "gifted." Again,. I don't see the AAP Program as exclusive to "gifted" students since it clearly includes many that don't fit that definition. Nor do I have a problem with "prepping" for the tests if the kids do well enough to get in and keep up the same level of effort while in the program. But I also agree that gifted (or for that matter "advanced academic") has NO racial connotation. It could be that not all racial groups qualify for AAP in the same proportion, but that's also not racist, if all are measured by the same objective standard.

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Anonymous wrote:According to this group the NNAT is the least-reliable and least-regarded metric. Who knows if that's true 🤷

It’s not according to this group. The AAP equity report showed it to be the least reliable metric. The committee knows this.

The equity report states that blacks and hispanics score higher on GBRS than expected, given their IQ test scores. To me that means teachers are arbitrarily rating minority kids higher. That same report states asians are "disproportionally overrepresented", even though that group scored the highest on the standardized tests. The report was clearly written by people with an agenda.

However, I would guess the PP is correct. NNAT and CoGat really don't matter that much. It's all about the teacher's opinion (GBRS/HOPE)

To others, that means that they are not prepping their kids for standardized tests and likely need AAP even though their test scores are lower.

As it is, there is not way to justify this statement, but if "prepping" makes all the difference, let's have the schools prepare all the kids for the test and choose the ones who prepped best because that's more akin to how they will perform in the program. Preparation = improved performance

The gifted program is for gifted students. Not all students who are academically focused overachievers are gifted. Prepping for a psychoeducational evaluation completely defeats the purpose and renders the results invalid. If you enrolled your kid in cogat prep or in any way prepped them for it, the score is completely meaningless.

AAP is not exclusively for gifted students though; if it were, there would be a much smaller percentage of students accepted, not 20%+.

AAP is for ALL students who are willing to put in the effort for advanced academics. Racists keep repeating its exclusively for their kids whom they want to be called gifted. Thankfully FCPS is working on deleting the racist word "gifted" from all AAP literature.

How exactly is the word gifted racist? Please do share.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to this group the NNAT is the least-reliable and least-regarded metric. Who knows if that's true 🤷

It’s not according to this group. The AAP equity report showed it to be the least reliable metric. The committee knows this.

The equity report states that blacks and hispanics score higher on GBRS than expected, given their IQ test scores. To me that means teachers are arbitrarily rating minority kids higher. That same report states asians are "disproportionally overrepresented", even though that group scored the highest on the standardized tests. The report was clearly written by people with an agenda.

However, I would guess the PP is correct. NNAT and CoGat really don't matter that much. It's all about the teacher's opinion (GBRS/HOPE)

To others, that means that they are not prepping their kids for standardized tests and likely need AAP even though their test scores are lower.

As it is, there is not way to justify this statement, but if "prepping" makes all the difference, let's have the schools prepare all the kids for the test and choose the ones who prepped best because that's more akin to how they will perform in the program. Preparation = improved performance

The gifted program is for gifted students. Not all students who are academically focused overachievers are gifted. Prepping for a psychoeducational evaluation completely defeats the purpose and renders the results invalid. If you enrolled your kid in cogat prep or in any way prepped them for it, the score is completely meaningless.

AAP is not exclusively for gifted students though; if it were, there would be a much smaller percentage of students accepted, not 20%+.

AAP is for ALL students who are willing to put in the effort for advanced academics. Racists keep repeating its exclusively for their kids whom they want to be called gifted. Thankfully FCPS is working on deleting the racist word "gifted" from all AAP literature.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to this group the NNAT is the least-reliable and least-regarded metric. Who knows if that's true 🤷

It’s not according to this group. The AAP equity report showed it to be the least reliable metric. The committee knows this.

The equity report states that blacks and hispanics score higher on GBRS than expected, given their IQ test scores. To me that means teachers are arbitrarily rating minority kids higher. That same report states asians are "disproportionally overrepresented", even though that group scored the highest on the standardized tests. The report was clearly written by people with an agenda.

However, I would guess the PP is correct. NNAT and CoGat really don't matter that much. It's all about the teacher's opinion (GBRS/HOPE)

To others, that means that they are not prepping their kids for standardized tests and likely need AAP even though their test scores are lower.

As it is, there is not way to justify this statement, but if "prepping" makes all the difference, let's have the schools prepare all the kids for the test and choose the ones who prepped best because that's more akin to how they will perform in the program. Preparation = improved performance

The gifted program is for gifted students. Not all students who are academically focused overachievers are gifted. Prepping for a psychoeducational evaluation completely defeats the purpose and renders the results invalid. If you enrolled your kid in cogat prep or in any way prepped them for it, the score is completely meaningless.

AAP is not exclusively for gifted students though; if it were, there would be a much smaller percentage of students accepted, not 20%+.

I posted above- we are not in FCPS so realizing now this might be the wrong thread for my question

^^

Newbie here. My kid has a composite score of 138 (99th) and a quantitative score of 150 (99th, looks like he only missed one question). His verbal is good but not AAP good (126, 96th when age based but only 92nd for grade based because he is a young summer birthday). His nonverbal was a weakness (scored 110, only 70th for age based and 68th for grade based).

What are his chances? Don't know what his teacher form will say, he is a rule follower and not a behavioral concern but he is "bouncy" and chatty and kind of socially awkward (but never mean...) , probably has ADHD honestly

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Anonymous wrote:If you haven't applied already you've missed this year's window. I would suggest reading the FCPS AAP website and applying in the Fall.

Pp here. Thank you. Planning on applying next year hence doing reaearch now. I am just wrapping my head around how to CogAT is used. It is the raw or simply the standard number that is used?

Yes, just the raw score is used. Don't worry about the (national) percentile score. If you get above 130 in everything, you should be fine.

Anonymous wrote:If you haven't applied already you've missed this year's window. I would suggest reading the FCPS AAP website and applying in the Fall.

Pp here. Thank you. Planning on applying next year hence doing reaearch now. I am just wrapping my head around how to CogAT is used. It is the raw or simply the standard number that is used?

If you haven't applied already you've missed this year's window. I would suggest reading the FCPS AAP website and applying in the Fall.