Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. I'll be so careful not to mess up when my son has a spouse. You see so many young people alone or in bad relationships, its a blessing for your child to have someone who loves them and cares about them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

OMG PEOPLE. I need to stop reading and replying because none of you are reading the thread but I said I’d be fine if he didn’t go and wanted to stay home with her! And also that I would invite her! You all. Seriously. You want so badly for me to be a monster.

Also this is all ridiculous stereotyping of moms and sons. Would you say the same and it was switched- daughter and boyfriend? If my son were a daughter, would you ask if I had taken her boyfriend out to get our nails done and that I was trying to take my daughter away from her boyfriend (of less than a year)?

Stop people! Let’s all be nice and realize we’re all just out there trying and some of us make mistakes sometimes.

I feel you.

It is hard to let go if what we did in the past (e.g., family vacations) and know when one door has closed.

Many of my friends are sad that when their adult child has partnered off, they rarely get to spend time with him/her alone. It is just the reality.

In some cultures, its taken as a serious betrayal.

GFs are treated like wives? Nope. In those cultures married DILs do not treat their MILs like that are now intruders on their DD/DS lives just because they are married.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

OMG PEOPLE. I need to stop reading and replying because none of you are reading the thread but I said I’d be fine if he didn’t go and wanted to stay home with her! And also that I would invite her! You all. Seriously. You want so badly for me to be a monster.

Also this is all ridiculous stereotyping of moms and sons. Would you say the same and it was switched- daughter and boyfriend? If my son were a daughter, would you ask if I had taken her boyfriend out to get our nails done and that I was trying to take my daughter away from her boyfriend (of less than a year)?

Stop people! Let’s all be nice and realize we’re all just out there trying and some of us make mistakes sometimes.

I feel you.

It is hard to let go if what we did in the past (e.g., family vacations) and know when one door has closed.

Many of my friends are sad that when their adult child has partnered off, they rarely get to spend time with him/her alone. It is just the reality.

In some cultures, its taken as a serious betrayal.

GFs are treated like wives? Nope. In those cultures married DILs do not treat their MILs like that are now intruders on their DD/DS lives just because they are married.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

OMG PEOPLE. I need to stop reading and replying because none of you are reading the thread but I said I’d be fine if he didn’t go and wanted to stay home with her! And also that I would invite her! You all. Seriously. You want so badly for me to be a monster.

Also this is all ridiculous stereotyping of moms and sons. Would you say the same and it was switched- daughter and boyfriend? If my son were a daughter, would you ask if I had taken her boyfriend out to get our nails done and that I was trying to take my daughter away from her boyfriend (of less than a year)?

Stop people! Let’s all be nice and realize we’re all just out there trying and some of us make mistakes sometimes.

I feel you.

It is hard to let go if what we did in the past (e.g., family vacations) and know when one door has closed.

Many of my friends are sad that when their adult child has partnered off, they rarely get to spend time with him/her alone. It is just the reality.

In some cultures, its taken as a serious betrayal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow y'all PPs are nuts and completely going off on your own imaginary scenarios.

this is a GF NOT wife
a long-planned one time family trip NOT weekly dinners
less than a year relationship NOT 20-year marriage
DS active in planning (pre-GF) NOT a demanding mother usurpring DS's valuable time off

If you're about to reply talking about ILs and husbands.... you're in the wrong thread

Thank you! (I am OP.)

Fair point to err on the side of being inclusive because this could set the tone for the future - I didn’t really think of it that way and I acknowledged I was probably wrong many pages ago! I think I felt reluctant mostly because things have moved so fast and we’ve been here before. But all the many PPs are probably right that we should think long term on this.

Also the whole spouses conversation - people setting standards on how much their spouse should be able to see their parents etc- makes me realize what a good marriage I have! We both encourage the other to spend time with our families alone. And are always totally fine when the other does that. That time with my parents is so important to me! And my husband’s is to him. And maybe that’s why I came at this the way I did initially. I can’t imagine criticizing my mother in law for wanting time alone with my husband.

Lastly I do think this convo is pretty tilted toward stereotypes of moms/sons.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, carry on with the in-law venting!

I disagree if a couple lives together they are acting as married and should be treated accordingly. Besides many many people get married after a year of dating. And it's 2023 time to get away from the 1959s mindset of they have to be married to be taken seriously. What about couples who live together but never get married should they always be excluded?

I would find it odd if a couple lives together to tell them they aren't welcome to bring their partner they literally share property with and a life with. I'm assuming your child probably considers them their family

If your child no longer lives in your home the days of "nuclear family" trips and excluding someone's serious SO especially if they live together is out of the question. No more. They are clearly presenting that they are a unit. And it's not up to anyone else outside of the relationship to determine they are not. You should treat the couple how they present themselves.

Because I'm sure PPs sons considers his "nuclear" family the woman he is living with. He isn't living at home with his parents and siblings. That ship has sailed.

I also totally disagree that mom isn't taking away his vacation time. By excluding his serious girlfriend she is expecting him to use vacation time for mommy and that's less time for him and his gf. Most 25 year old men would rather vacation with their partner they live with than their mommy. That's literally the definition of taking away his vacation time because that's now less for the couple.

Also doesn't it set a bad precedent to leave her out now. What if she is hurt by that? And feels excluded. What harm does it do to be inclusive and kind to people. Too much inclusivity never hurt anyone but being exclusive has hurt feelings.

Did you read the post you responded to?

OP literally said that she was "wrong", would think long term and is inviting the SO.

And my friends are not "literally taking away my vacation time" when they INVITE me on a girls trip.
When I am INVITED to a destination, the couple inviting is not "literally taking away my vacation time."
When my parents INVITE my family to a beach house for a week, they are not "literally taking away my family time."

We all have limited vacation time and money. So yes, when you choose to take a vacation you are "using up that time and money". So if your parents invite you and only you, not your spouse and kids, on a vacation, they are taking you away from time with your family. No reasonable parent would do that if the kid was married, we are just arguing that if your kid is living with someone it is a serious relationship and should be treated as if they are a couple and invited together. After that it is up to you if you go alone or with your entire immediate household.

PP here. The bolded is absolutely correct. The person choosing to use their vacation time on a trip they ae invited to is using their own vacation time.

But then you get confused again. The person OFFERING the trip is not "literally taking away" the time of the person being offered.

Well if Mommy expects their son (or daughter) to come on the "family vacation" they are. That is why you invite both members of a couple living together/in a committed relationship for a vacation

If "Mommy" does invite, and even expect BOTH the child and partner to come on a "family vacation", would you also conclude that is "literally taking away vacation time" because both of them could not be using it on other trips and events that they may want to do?

Oh maybe you misunderstood. What I was trying to say was that by asking your adult child to come on a trip with you and tell them their partner with whom they live with and are clearly in a adult committed relationship with isn't invited you are expected your adult child to give up vacation time that would presumably be used towards things with their partner such as trips and vacations. You are asking them to use up vacation time that now their partner will have less of with them.

Most adults who live with their SO and are in a committed relationship with them probably want to use their vacation time towards doing something such as traveling with their partner. They aren't going to want to be told their partner isn't invited on a "nuclear" family trip when the person who I'm sure they consider very much family isn't even invited.

Sorry but once my partner and I become serious and ESPECIALLY when we have a home together I would have found it very very strange if his family said I wasn't welcome. I would assume that if my partner's parents called him up and said they were taking a family vacation that invite was for us as a couple. Not asking my SO to leave a member of his family at home the person he owns a home with and shares a life with. You don't separate couples like that. It is assumed for big things like weddings, vacations, etc...they are a package deal because by living together that's how they are choosing to present themselves to the world so it's not up to anyone else to make the determination that their relationship isn't serious. It isn't up to anyone else to decide for them they aren't.

Let me add as an aside that when I say that couples that live together should be a packaged deal I don't mean that they never see anyone else ever without their partner like have a one on one meal with a parent, sibling, or friend or something like that. I mean for big things like I mentioned they should be invited together or not at all.

The days of leaving your adult child's SO out is over. The dynamics of your nuclear family shifts when your child becomes an adult as it should. Your vacations aren't going to look the same as when your child was 5, 10, or even 15. This isn't a highschool SO we are talking about here but rather an adult committed relationship

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow y'all PPs are nuts and completely going off on your own imaginary scenarios.

this is a GF NOT wife
a long-planned one time family trip NOT weekly dinners
less than a year relationship NOT 20-year marriage
DS active in planning (pre-GF) NOT a demanding mother usurpring DS's valuable time off

If you're about to reply talking about ILs and husbands.... you're in the wrong thread

Thank you! (I am OP.)

Fair point to err on the side of being inclusive because this could set the tone for the future - I didn’t really think of it that way and I acknowledged I was probably wrong many pages ago! I think I felt reluctant mostly because things have moved so fast and we’ve been here before. But all the many PPs are probably right that we should think long term on this.

Also the whole spouses conversation - people setting standards on how much their spouse should be able to see their parents etc- makes me realize what a good marriage I have! We both encourage the other to spend time with our families alone. And are always totally fine when the other does that. That time with my parents is so important to me! And my husband’s is to him. And maybe that’s why I came at this the way I did initially. I can’t imagine criticizing my mother in law for wanting time alone with my husband.

Lastly I do think this convo is pretty tilted toward stereotypes of moms/sons.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, carry on with the in-law venting!

I disagree if a couple lives together they are acting as married and should be treated accordingly. Besides many many people get married after a year of dating. And it's 2023 time to get away from the 1959s mindset of they have to be married to be taken seriously. What about couples who live together but never get married should they always be excluded?

I would find it odd if a couple lives together to tell them they aren't welcome to bring their partner they literally share property with and a life with. I'm assuming your child probably considers them their family

If your child no longer lives in your home the days of "nuclear family" trips and excluding someone's serious SO especially if they live together is out of the question. No more. They are clearly presenting that they are a unit. And it's not up to anyone else outside of the relationship to determine they are not. You should treat the couple how they present themselves.

Because I'm sure PPs sons considers his "nuclear" family the woman he is living with. He isn't living at home with his parents and siblings. That ship has sailed.

I also totally disagree that mom isn't taking away his vacation time. By excluding his serious girlfriend she is expecting him to use vacation time for mommy and that's less time for him and his gf. Most 25 year old men would rather vacation with their partner they live with than their mommy. That's literally the definition of taking away his vacation time because that's now less for the couple.

Also doesn't it set a bad precedent to leave her out now. What if she is hurt by that? And feels excluded. What harm does it do to be inclusive and kind to people. Too much inclusivity never hurt anyone but being exclusive has hurt feelings.

Did you read the post you responded to?

OP literally said that she was "wrong", would think long term and is inviting the SO.

And my friends are not "literally taking away my vacation time" when they INVITE me on a girls trip.
When I am INVITED to a destination, the couple inviting is not "literally taking away my vacation time."
When my parents INVITE my family to a beach house for a week, they are not "literally taking away my family time."

We all have limited vacation time and money. So yes, when you choose to take a vacation you are "using up that time and money". So if your parents invite you and only you, not your spouse and kids, on a vacation, they are taking you away from time with your family. No reasonable parent would do that if the kid was married, we are just arguing that if your kid is living with someone it is a serious relationship and should be treated as if they are a couple and invited together. After that it is up to you if you go alone or with your entire immediate household.

PP here. The bolded is absolutely correct. The person choosing to use their vacation time on a trip they ae invited to is using their own vacation time.

But then you get confused again. The person OFFERING the trip is not "literally taking away" the time of the person being offered.

Well if Mommy expects their son (or daughter) to come on the "family vacation" they are. That is why you invite both members of a couple living together/in a committed relationship for a vacation

If "Mommy" does invite, and even expect BOTH the child and partner to come on a "family vacation", would you also conclude that is "literally taking away vacation time" because both of them could not be using it on other trips and events that they may want to do?

Anonymous wrote:On a post like this, half of the posters are often talking from their own experiences of how well or worse they were received by their significant other's family and what difference small gestures make.

Other half are MILs wanting to keep their nuclear families close knit and their children's significant others respecting and honoring that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

OMG PEOPLE. I need to stop reading and replying because none of you are reading the thread but I said I’d be fine if he didn’t go and wanted to stay home with her! And also that I would invite her! You all. Seriously. You want so badly for me to be a monster.

Also this is all ridiculous stereotyping of moms and sons. Would you say the same and it was switched- daughter and boyfriend? If my son were a daughter, would you ask if I had taken her boyfriend out to get our nails done and that I was trying to take my daughter away from her boyfriend (of less than a year)?

Stop people! Let’s all be nice and realize we’re all just out there trying and some of us make mistakes sometimes.

I feel you.

It is hard to let go if what we did in the past (e.g., family vacations) and know when one door has closed.

Many of my friends are sad that when their adult child has partnered off, they rarely get to spend time with him/her alone. It is just the reality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow y'all PPs are nuts and completely going off on your own imaginary scenarios.

this is a GF NOT wife
a long-planned one time family trip NOT weekly dinners
less than a year relationship NOT 20-year marriage
DS active in planning (pre-GF) NOT a demanding mother usurpring DS's valuable time off

If you're about to reply talking about ILs and husbands.... you're in the wrong thread

Thank you! (I am OP.)

Fair point to err on the side of being inclusive because this could set the tone for the future - I didn’t really think of it that way and I acknowledged I was probably wrong many pages ago! I think I felt reluctant mostly because things have moved so fast and we’ve been here before. But all the many PPs are probably right that we should think long term on this.

Also the whole spouses conversation - people setting standards on how much their spouse should be able to see their parents etc- makes me realize what a good marriage I have! We both encourage the other to spend time with our families alone. And are always totally fine when the other does that. That time with my parents is so important to me! And my husband’s is to him. And maybe that’s why I came at this the way I did initially. I can’t imagine criticizing my mother in law for wanting time alone with my husband.

Lastly I do think this convo is pretty tilted toward stereotypes of moms/sons.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, carry on with the in-law venting!

I disagree if a couple lives together they are acting as married and should be treated accordingly. Besides many many people get married after a year of dating. And it's 2023 time to get away from the 1959s mindset of they have to be married to be taken seriously. What about couples who live together but never get married should they always be excluded?

I would find it odd if a couple lives together to tell them they aren't welcome to bring their partner they literally share property with and a life with. I'm assuming your child probably considers them their family

If your child no longer lives in your home the days of "nuclear family" trips and excluding someone's serious SO especially if they live together is out of the question. No more. They are clearly presenting that they are a unit. And it's not up to anyone else outside of the relationship to determine they are not. You should treat the couple how they present themselves.

Because I'm sure PPs sons considers his "nuclear" family the woman he is living with. He isn't living at home with his parents and siblings. That ship has sailed.

I also totally disagree that mom isn't taking away his vacation time. By excluding his serious girlfriend she is expecting him to use vacation time for mommy and that's less time for him and his gf. Most 25 year old men would rather vacation with their partner they live with than their mommy. That's literally the definition of taking away his vacation time because that's now less for the couple.

Also doesn't it set a bad precedent to leave her out now. What if she is hurt by that? And feels excluded. What harm does it do to be inclusive and kind to people. Too much inclusivity never hurt anyone but being exclusive has hurt feelings.

Did you read the post you responded to?

OP literally said that she was "wrong", would think long term and is inviting the SO.

And my friends are not "literally taking away my vacation time" when they INVITE me on a girls trip.
When I am INVITED to a destination, the couple inviting is not "literally taking away my vacation time."
When my parents INVITE my family to a beach house for a week, they are not "literally taking away my family time."

We all have limited vacation time and money. So yes, when you choose to take a vacation you are "using up that time and money". So if your parents invite you and only you, not your spouse and kids, on a vacation, they are taking you away from time with your family. No reasonable parent would do that if the kid was married, we are just arguing that if your kid is living with someone it is a serious relationship and should be treated as if they are a couple and invited together. After that it is up to you if you go alone or with your entire immediate household.

PP here. The bolded is absolutely correct. The person choosing to use their vacation time on a trip they ae invited to is using their own vacation time.

But then you get confused again. The person OFFERING the trip is not "literally taking away" the time of the person being offered.

Well if Mommy expects their son (or daughter) to come on the "family vacation" they are. That is why you invite both members of a couple living together/in a committed relationship for a vacation

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:simple answer. NOPE. They aren't married. Problem solved

Well then don't be surprised when son declines the offer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow y'all PPs are nuts and completely going off on your own imaginary scenarios.

this is a GF NOT wife
a long-planned one time family trip NOT weekly dinners
less than a year relationship NOT 20-year marriage
DS active in planning (pre-GF) NOT a demanding mother usurpring DS's valuable time off

If you're about to reply talking about ILs and husbands.... you're in the wrong thread

Thank you! (I am OP.)

Fair point to err on the side of being inclusive because this could set the tone for the future - I didn’t really think of it that way and I acknowledged I was probably wrong many pages ago! I think I felt reluctant mostly because things have moved so fast and we’ve been here before. But all the many PPs are probably right that we should think long term on this.

Also the whole spouses conversation - people setting standards on how much their spouse should be able to see their parents etc- makes me realize what a good marriage I have! We both encourage the other to spend time with our families alone. And are always totally fine when the other does that. That time with my parents is so important to me! And my husband’s is to him. And maybe that’s why I came at this the way I did initially. I can’t imagine criticizing my mother in law for wanting time alone with my husband.

Lastly I do think this convo is pretty tilted toward stereotypes of moms/sons.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, carry on with the in-law venting!

I disagree if a couple lives together they are acting as married and should be treated accordingly. Besides many many people get married after a year of dating. And it's 2023 time to get away from the 1959s mindset of they have to be married to be taken seriously. What about couples who live together but never get married should they always be excluded?

I would find it odd if a couple lives together to tell them they aren't welcome to bring their partner they literally share property with and a life with. I'm assuming your child probably considers them their family

If your child no longer lives in your home the days of "nuclear family" trips and excluding someone's serious SO especially if they live together is out of the question. No more. They are clearly presenting that they are a unit. And it's not up to anyone else outside of the relationship to determine they are not. You should treat the couple how they present themselves.

Because I'm sure PPs sons considers his "nuclear" family the woman he is living with. He isn't living at home with his parents and siblings. That ship has sailed.

I also totally disagree that mom isn't taking away his vacation time. By excluding his serious girlfriend she is expecting him to use vacation time for mommy and that's less time for him and his gf. Most 25 year old men would rather vacation with their partner they live with than their mommy. That's literally the definition of taking away his vacation time because that's now less for the couple.

Also doesn't it set a bad precedent to leave her out now. What if she is hurt by that? And feels excluded. What harm does it do to be inclusive and kind to people. Too much inclusivity never hurt anyone but being exclusive has hurt feelings.

Did you read the post you responded to?

OP literally said that she was "wrong", would think long term and is inviting the SO.

And my friends are not "literally taking away my vacation time" when they INVITE me on a girls trip.
When I am INVITED to a destination, the couple inviting is not "literally taking away my vacation time."
When my parents INVITE my family to a beach house for a week, they are not "literally taking away my family time."

We all have limited vacation time and money. So yes, when you choose to take a vacation you are "using up that time and money". So if your parents invite you and only you, not your spouse and kids, on a vacation, they are taking you away from time with your family. No reasonable parent would do that if the kid was married, we are just arguing that if your kid is living with someone it is a serious relationship and should be treated as if they are a couple and invited together. After that it is up to you if you go alone or with your entire immediate household.

PP here. The bolded is absolutely correct. The person choosing to use their vacation time on a trip they ae invited to is using their own vacation time.

But then you get confused again. The person OFFERING the trip is not "literally taking away" the time of the person being offered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. I'm curious how many of these MILs who are asking their son's wives to stay at home while they ask their their son to come over or do things with them without their son's wife is making any sort of effort to include the DIL into the family in other areas? Or to foster an independent relationship with her as their DIL? Does she ever and the DIL to go out shopping, or to get their nails done, or to grab lunch together?

I think why a lot of people seem to take issues with mother and son spending alone time together without their wife is because most men are gonna want their wives included and plus there is a very very fine line between wanting time alone with your son and the mothers that request this not being able to accept that their son's are married and they are no longer the #1 woman in their son's life so they are trying to subconsciously shit out the wife/their DIL or they are unable to cut the apron strings from their adult sons.

shut out*

OMG PEOPLE. I need to stop reading and replying because none of you are reading the thread but I said I’d be fine if he didn’t go and wanted to stay home with her! And also that I would invite her! You all. Seriously. You want so badly for me to be a monster.

Also this is all ridiculous stereotyping of moms and sons. Would you say the same and it was switched- daughter and boyfriend? If my son were a daughter, would you ask if I had taken her boyfriend out to get our nails done and that I was trying to take my daughter away from her boyfriend (of less than a year)?

Stop people! Let’s all be nice and realize we’re all just out there trying and some of us make mistakes sometimes.