Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

That’s only if we believe that they won’t follow it. Past program moves suggest they will, despite the grumbling.

There's zero basis to conclude that especially if the feeder path is Claremont --> WMS --> Wakefield. I wouldn't sign my kid up for being yoyoed across the county and spending MS as a token minority. No way.

ALSO it is clear that N. Arlington doesn't follow immersion to Gunston and the most stated reason is distance. Both Key and Claremont both have lots of applications and a lot of interest at the ES level. It is VERY obvious that the drop off comes at MS and mostly from NA. If the program is moved to N. Arlington it is logical to assume that the program will then largely be populated by kids from N. Arlington while kids from S. Arlington leave the program at MS.

North Arlington parents don’t follow Immersion to Gunston because academically it’s much more challenged than the 3 No Arlington middle schools.

If HBW was at Gunston, they would be lining up for it.

Considering the meeting was postponed, it doesn't feel like APS is making this a very high priority.

Anonymous wrote:Put it at Jefferson and make it truly central

This is what I want but I heard APS said something about not having IB and immersion at the same place.

Put it at Jefferson and make it truly central

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

That’s only if we believe that they won’t follow it. Past program moves suggest they will, despite the grumbling.

There's zero basis to conclude that especially if the feeder path is Claremont --> WMS --> Wakefield. I wouldn't sign my kid up for being yoyoed across the county and spending MS as a token minority. No way.

ALSO it is clear that N. Arlington doesn't follow immersion to Gunston and the most stated reason is distance. Both Key and Claremont both have lots of applications and a lot of interest at the ES level. It is VERY obvious that the drop off comes at MS and mostly from NA. If the program is moved to N. Arlington it is logical to assume that the program will then largely be populated by kids from N. Arlington while kids from S. Arlington leave the program at MS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

That’s only if we believe that they won’t follow it. Past program moves suggest they will, despite the grumbling.

There's zero basis to conclude that especially if the feeder path is Claremont --> WMS --> Wakefield. I wouldn't sign my kid up for being yoyoed across the county and spending MS as a token minority. No way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

That’s only if we believe that they won’t follow it. Past program moves suggest they will, despite the grumbling.

There are more problems with bringing immersion to WMS than just long bus rides. You need to make sure you have sufficient administrative staff who can speak Spanish. You need to make sure there are Spanish books in the library and a librarian who can recommend and talk about the Spanish books. You need to make sure that there is sufficient EL staff. WMS right now only has 3% of students who are EL so they don't have the current staff to support an immersion program. It is unclear to me if the ELL staff will then move to WMS since they are still needed at Gunston without immersion. APS has determined that they want to support more ELLs though Immersion. In fact, APS moved EL from world languages to immersion. Many current immersion teachers also provide ELL services for both immersion and kids in the regular program. By removing immersion from Gunston and placing it in WMS you are impacting the education of students in the general education population that use ELL services. At least if the program is moved to Kenmore there is a high % of EL kids there who can then benefit from the services the immersion teachers offer. Assuming they go! If they don't go, Kenmore, with its higher ELL population, hopefully has a staff that can support immersion already. Essentially Kenmore already has a structure that can adopt immersion due to its high percent of Spanish EL students (50%!).

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much irrational anger towers the immersion program. Boundaries are shifting because of population growth in S Arlington, not because of immersion. The program hasn't changed in size. Student shifts are not because of the immersion program. APS needs to move students north.

If only there was a group of about 300 students that you could move from Gunston to Williamsburg without impacting all of the other boundaries...

So your proposal is to bus Hispanic students all the way across the county so that a few privileged N Arlington students don't have to attend their next closest MS?

Are we really going to pretend that the Immersion population that lives near Gunston, which heavily draws from Claremont, is predominantly disadvantaged? Claremont that is 27% FARMS despite all surrounding schools that are 50%+?

Are you trying to say that Taylor and WMS aren't economically privileged students?

No, I'm saying you're exaggerating the hardship for students who live in Fairlington to go to Williamsburg.

Also, everyone always complains about how North Arlington schools aren't diverse enough. Well, here's your chance to be the change.

I think you're exaggerating the burden for Taylor students to attend WMS. That's where they went before Hamm opened.

So you don’t want more diversity in N Arlington schools?

Are you seriously proposing busing to desegregate N Arlington school?

It’s an option program, not a neighborhood school. Kids in option programs can be bused anywhere there is space. That’s why it’s optional. It’s not forced busing and you sound like an idiot even comparing this to that.

You should brush up on your history. Busing for "optional" magnet schools is no less controversial.

Which history is that? Not sure what you’re referring to.

The history of busing and desegregation in Arlington. I am a new poster but the original option schools in Arlington were designed to force desegregation through busing

You should break out your dictionary and look up “option” and “force”.

Or maybe you should look at the history of busing in Arlington. They created an option school at Drew. Then they forcibly bused the kids out of the neighborhood because they could no longer attend at Drew. In fact, they used to bus kids from opposite sides of the street to different schools do kids were broken up from their neighborhood unit. Not saying that is happening here. JUST saying Arlington has a nasty history of using busing to deal with desegregation. It isn't wrong for folks to be concerned even if you think it is no big deal.

This isn’t that. Moving Immersion to WMS actually helps keep more students in their neighborhood schools rather than moving them out for an option program (look at the adjusted Kenmore boundary). It’s an entirely different situation, and sadly it is not unique to Arlington. Desegregation was the right thing to do, it was the wrong approach, and it’s far more complicated than just a schools issue. But in a world in which a duplex can be stopped with just a threat of a lawsuit citing a covenant on a deed from almost 100 years ago, it’s not going to be unwound while I live and breath.

Kids in neighborhood schools aren't any more deserving then kids in choice schools. The move is hard on all students. It will be hard for kids to move out of Gunston. It will be hard for kids to move out of their neighborhood school. We have some kids in immersion now that will be going through their third school move when the program moves from Gunston (when certain neighborhoods were rezone from Claremont to Key, when Key moved buildings and now when Immersion leaves Gunston). That has all been hard.

It’s not a matter of more or less deserving. It’s a matter of choice. Families who have enrolled their children in option schools or programs are aware of trade-offs, such as being far from home (whether that’s a little or a lot far, not going to school with neighbors, being on teams and activities that are not neighborhood-based). Families who have not opted for theses trade-offs should be considered in a different light because they have not signed up for these trade-offs. Also, they don’t have a fall-back if it’s not working out. Families in option programs and schools can always leave and return to the neighborhood school. There is no alternative for families and kids who are at the neighborhood school. See the difference? Lastly, the number of children affected matters. There are so many more kids in neighborhood schools than option programs and schools. The sheer volume alone means their needs take priority. Do we make a decision based on what’s best/most convenient for 300 students, many of whom are not racial or ethnic minorities or economically disadvantaged, or for the 4,000 students, many of whom are racial or ethnic minorities AND economically disadvantaged?

You're a proponent of haves get more and have nots must always suffer. You're a proponent of second-class schools and less worthy students. There is no other way to see your viewpoint. At best, your argument is based on an conclusion (still immoral, as it is) that, by definition, option schools and their students must never receive anything unless neighborhoods first are unaffected. Disavow it all you want... It's people like you who always emerge from the woodwork whenever anything is proposed for options who say neighborhoods are more deserving...more natural...more the way it ought to be (and get off my lawn!).

If you feel slighted return to your neighborhood school. Options should wait not have priority over neighborhood schools, they are not core missions of APS

The option schools are not getting "priority" over neighborhood schools. Dear god. They need to move the option school to a place where it can survive and thrive. That is not giving it priority. But they have an obligation to try to make the program successful for those students same as they have an obligation to try to make neighborhood-based schools successful for that set of students. And sorry, your kid having to take a bus when they used to walk and/or possibly being separated from some friends (something MANY elementary students already do in this County and it really just is not a big deal) is not the top concern, nor should it be.

If the optional educational experience isn’t strong enough to survive anywhere in this geographically small county, then it’s catering to too small of a population. Get rid of it. We don’t have to have all the options folks.

As stated, even if APS eliminated all option programs, Hamm students would still need to be rezoned to WMS because of population growth in S Arl, with the same for some Kenmore PUs moving to Swanson, etc. APS's decision whether to continue option programs is really beside the point and does nothing but muck up the actual conversation about appropriate MS boundaries.

From the APS poll, it looks like APS is doing something weird with the Ashlawn PUs, carving off only two units to attend a different MS. That should be fixed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much irrational anger towers the immersion program. Boundaries are shifting because of population growth in S Arlington, not because of immersion. The program hasn't changed in size. Student shifts are not because of the immersion program. APS needs to move students north.

If only there was a group of about 300 students that you could move from Gunston to Williamsburg without impacting all of the other boundaries...

So your proposal is to bus Hispanic students all the way across the county so that a few privileged N Arlington students don't have to attend their next closest MS?

Are we really going to pretend that the Immersion population that lives near Gunston, which heavily draws from Claremont, is predominantly disadvantaged? Claremont that is 27% FARMS despite all surrounding schools that are 50%+?

Are you trying to say that Taylor and WMS aren't economically privileged students?

No, I'm saying you're exaggerating the hardship for students who live in Fairlington to go to Williamsburg.

Also, everyone always complains about how North Arlington schools aren't diverse enough. Well, here's your chance to be the change.

I think you're exaggerating the burden for Taylor students to attend WMS. That's where they went before Hamm opened.

So you don’t want more diversity in N Arlington schools?

Are you seriously proposing busing to desegregate N Arlington school?

It’s an option program, not a neighborhood school. Kids in option programs can be bused anywhere there is space. That’s why it’s optional. It’s not forced busing and you sound like an idiot even comparing this to that.

You should brush up on your history. Busing for "optional" magnet schools is no less controversial.

Which history is that? Not sure what you’re referring to.

The history of busing and desegregation in Arlington. I am a new poster but the original option schools in Arlington were designed to force desegregation through busing

You should break out your dictionary and look up “option” and “force”.

Or maybe you should look at the history of busing in Arlington. They created an option school at Drew. Then they forcibly bused the kids out of the neighborhood because they could no longer attend at Drew. In fact, they used to bus kids from opposite sides of the street to different schools do kids were broken up from their neighborhood unit. Not saying that is happening here. JUST saying Arlington has a nasty history of using busing to deal with desegregation. It isn't wrong for folks to be concerned even if you think it is no big deal.

This isn’t that. Moving Immersion to WMS actually helps keep more students in their neighborhood schools rather than moving them out for an option program (look at the adjusted Kenmore boundary). It’s an entirely different situation, and sadly it is not unique to Arlington. Desegregation was the right thing to do, it was the wrong approach, and it’s far more complicated than just a schools issue. But in a world in which a duplex can be stopped with just a threat of a lawsuit citing a covenant on a deed from almost 100 years ago, it’s not going to be unwound while I live and breath.

Kids in neighborhood schools aren't any more deserving then kids in choice schools. The move is hard on all students. It will be hard for kids to move out of Gunston. It will be hard for kids to move out of their neighborhood school. We have some kids in immersion now that will be going through their third school move when the program moves from Gunston (when certain neighborhoods were rezone from Claremont to Key, when Key moved buildings and now when Immersion leaves Gunston). That has all been hard.

It’s not a matter of more or less deserving. It’s a matter of choice. Families who have enrolled their children in option schools or programs are aware of trade-offs, such as being far from home (whether that’s a little or a lot far, not going to school with neighbors, being on teams and activities that are not neighborhood-based). Families who have not opted for theses trade-offs should be considered in a different light because they have not signed up for these trade-offs. Also, they don’t have a fall-back if it’s not working out. Families in option programs and schools can always leave and return to the neighborhood school. There is no alternative for families and kids who are at the neighborhood school. See the difference? Lastly, the number of children affected matters. There are so many more kids in neighborhood schools than option programs and schools. The sheer volume alone means their needs take priority. Do we make a decision based on what’s best/most convenient for 300 students, many of whom are not racial or ethnic minorities or economically disadvantaged, or for the 4,000 students, many of whom are racial or ethnic minorities AND economically disadvantaged?

You're a proponent of haves get more and have nots must always suffer. You're a proponent of second-class schools and less worthy students. There is no other way to see your viewpoint. At best, your argument is based on an conclusion (still immoral, as it is) that, by definition, option schools and their students must never receive anything unless neighborhoods first are unaffected. Disavow it all you want... It's people like you who always emerge from the woodwork whenever anything is proposed for options who say neighborhoods are more deserving...more natural...more the way it ought to be (and get off my lawn!).

If you feel slighted return to your neighborhood school. Options should wait not have priority over neighborhood schools, they are not core missions of APS

The option schools are not getting "priority" over neighborhood schools. Dear god. They need to move the option school to a place where it can survive and thrive. That is not giving it priority. But they have an obligation to try to make the program successful for those students same as they have an obligation to try to make neighborhood-based schools successful for that set of students. And sorry, your kid having to take a bus when they used to walk and/or possibly being separated from some friends (something MANY elementary students already do in this County and it really just is not a big deal) is not the top concern, nor should it be.

If the optional educational experience isn’t strong enough to survive anywhere in this geographically small county, then it’s catering to too small of a population. Get rid of it. We don’t have to have all the options folks.

It sounds like you’re making an argument for all option programs to be in North Arlington. You don’t see the flaw there?

They were all in S and Central Arlington to start, because that’s where there was space. They wanted to draw kids in from other neighborhoods so they wouldn’t have to shut down schools. Now that populations have shifted, it’s the opposite problem. That’s largely what led to the ES option school musical chairs. And people still enrolled when ATS and Key moved, didn’t they, regardless of distance?

In order to keep N schools open and full and alleviate S crowding, we need to move kids from S and Central Arlington to the N. Do we do that by moving an option program, and leaving current neighborhood boundaries largely intact, or do we shift everyone N and redraw every single boundary, splitting up more neighborhoods and feeder patterns? That’s the question.

And anyone who waited 30 or more minutes to get out of the Kenmore parking lot at BTSN last night knows that moving an option program here before they address the ingress/egress to the school is a bad idea.

ATS moved 1.7 miles west. Key moved 2.5 miles west.

Kenmore is 5.1 miles north of Gunston. Williamsburg is 7.6 miles north of Gunston. I'd say the distance is significantly more than ATS or Key.

For anyone who wants to double check the distances, the old ATS building is where Key now is. The old Key building is where Innovation now is.

The ATS and Key moves were part of broader shifts involving more schools. As other have said APS' feeder structure is a complete mess, i.e. elementary schools divide into multiple MS, MS divides into multiple HS. The whole feeder structure should be revisited so that whole schools actually feed into other schools. If the population growth is in the S and Arlington County refuses to buy and sell land within itself to make more land available for schools in S Arlington, then yes, there will have to be a shift northward for all students. 300 kids aren't going to fix the problem for the whole county. If you don't like that, contact both the school board AND your other county government officials.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much irrational anger towers the immersion program. Boundaries are shifting because of population growth in S Arlington, not because of immersion. The program hasn't changed in size. Student shifts are not because of the immersion program. APS needs to move students north.

If only there was a group of about 300 students that you could move from Gunston to Williamsburg without impacting all of the other boundaries...

So your proposal is to bus Hispanic students all the way across the county so that a few privileged N Arlington students don't have to attend their next closest MS?

Are we really going to pretend that the Immersion population that lives near Gunston, which heavily draws from Claremont, is predominantly disadvantaged? Claremont that is 27% FARMS despite all surrounding schools that are 50%+?

Are you trying to say that Taylor and WMS aren't economically privileged students?

No, I'm saying you're exaggerating the hardship for students who live in Fairlington to go to Williamsburg.

Also, everyone always complains about how North Arlington schools aren't diverse enough. Well, here's your chance to be the change.

I think you're exaggerating the burden for Taylor students to attend WMS. That's where they went before Hamm opened.

So you don’t want more diversity in N Arlington schools?

Are you seriously proposing busing to desegregate N Arlington school?

It’s an option program, not a neighborhood school. Kids in option programs can be bused anywhere there is space. That’s why it’s optional. It’s not forced busing and you sound like an idiot even comparing this to that.

You should brush up on your history. Busing for "optional" magnet schools is no less controversial.

Which history is that? Not sure what you’re referring to.

The history of busing and desegregation in Arlington. I am a new poster but the original option schools in Arlington were designed to force desegregation through busing

You should break out your dictionary and look up “option” and “force”.

Or maybe you should look at the history of busing in Arlington. They created an option school at Drew. Then they forcibly bused the kids out of the neighborhood because they could no longer attend at Drew. In fact, they used to bus kids from opposite sides of the street to different schools do kids were broken up from their neighborhood unit. Not saying that is happening here. JUST saying Arlington has a nasty history of using busing to deal with desegregation. It isn't wrong for folks to be concerned even if you think it is no big deal.

This isn’t that. Moving Immersion to WMS actually helps keep more students in their neighborhood schools rather than moving them out for an option program (look at the adjusted Kenmore boundary). It’s an entirely different situation, and sadly it is not unique to Arlington. Desegregation was the right thing to do, it was the wrong approach, and it’s far more complicated than just a schools issue. But in a world in which a duplex can be stopped with just a threat of a lawsuit citing a covenant on a deed from almost 100 years ago, it’s not going to be unwound while I live and breath.

Kids in neighborhood schools aren't any more deserving then kids in choice schools. The move is hard on all students. It will be hard for kids to move out of Gunston. It will be hard for kids to move out of their neighborhood school. We have some kids in immersion now that will be going through their third school move when the program moves from Gunston (when certain neighborhoods were rezone from Claremont to Key, when Key moved buildings and now when Immersion leaves Gunston). That has all been hard.

It’s not a matter of more or less deserving. It’s a matter of choice. Families who have enrolled their children in option schools or programs are aware of trade-offs, such as being far from home (whether that’s a little or a lot far, not going to school with neighbors, being on teams and activities that are not neighborhood-based). Families who have not opted for theses trade-offs should be considered in a different light because they have not signed up for these trade-offs. Also, they don’t have a fall-back if it’s not working out. Families in option programs and schools can always leave and return to the neighborhood school. There is no alternative for families and kids who are at the neighborhood school. See the difference? Lastly, the number of children affected matters. There are so many more kids in neighborhood schools than option programs and schools. The sheer volume alone means their needs take priority. Do we make a decision based on what’s best/most convenient for 300 students, many of whom are not racial or ethnic minorities or economically disadvantaged, or for the 4,000 students, many of whom are racial or ethnic minorities AND economically disadvantaged?

You're a proponent of haves get more and have nots must always suffer. You're a proponent of second-class schools and less worthy students. There is no other way to see your viewpoint. At best, your argument is based on an conclusion (still immoral, as it is) that, by definition, option schools and their students must never receive anything unless neighborhoods first are unaffected. Disavow it all you want... It's people like you who always emerge from the woodwork whenever anything is proposed for options who say neighborhoods are more deserving...more natural...more the way it ought to be (and get off my lawn!).

If you feel slighted return to your neighborhood school. Options should wait not have priority over neighborhood schools, they are not core missions of APS

The option schools are not getting "priority" over neighborhood schools. Dear god. They need to move the option school to a place where it can survive and thrive. That is not giving it priority. But they have an obligation to try to make the program successful for those students same as they have an obligation to try to make neighborhood-based schools successful for that set of students. And sorry, your kid having to take a bus when they used to walk and/or possibly being separated from some friends (something MANY elementary students already do in this County and it really just is not a big deal) is not the top concern, nor should it be.

If the optional educational experience isn’t strong enough to survive anywhere in this geographically small county, then it’s catering to too small of a population. Get rid of it. We don’t have to have all the options folks.

It sounds like you’re making an argument for all option programs to be in North Arlington. You don’t see the flaw there?

They were all in S and Central Arlington to start, because that’s where there was space. They wanted to draw kids in from other neighborhoods so they wouldn’t have to shut down schools. Now that populations have shifted, it’s the opposite problem. That’s largely what led to the ES option school musical chairs. And people still enrolled when ATS and Key moved, didn’t they, regardless of distance?

In order to keep N schools open and full and alleviate S crowding, we need to move kids from S and Central Arlington to the N. Do we do that by moving an option program, and leaving current neighborhood boundaries largely intact, or do we shift everyone N and redraw every single boundary, splitting up more neighborhoods and feeder patterns? That’s the question.

And anyone who waited 30 or more minutes to get out of the Kenmore parking lot at BTSN last night knows that moving an option program here before they address the ingress/egress to the school is a bad idea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much irrational anger towers the immersion program. Boundaries are shifting because of population growth in S Arlington, not because of immersion. The program hasn't changed in size. Student shifts are not because of the immersion program. APS needs to move students north.

If only there was a group of about 300 students that you could move from Gunston to Williamsburg without impacting all of the other boundaries...

So your proposal is to bus Hispanic students all the way across the county so that a few privileged N Arlington students don't have to attend their next closest MS?

Are we really going to pretend that the Immersion population that lives near Gunston, which heavily draws from Claremont, is predominantly disadvantaged? Claremont that is 27% FARMS despite all surrounding schools that are 50%+?

Are you trying to say that Taylor and WMS aren't economically privileged students?

No, I'm saying you're exaggerating the hardship for students who live in Fairlington to go to Williamsburg.

Also, everyone always complains about how North Arlington schools aren't diverse enough. Well, here's your chance to be the change.

I think you're exaggerating the burden for Taylor students to attend WMS. That's where they went before Hamm opened.

So you don’t want more diversity in N Arlington schools?

Are you seriously proposing busing to desegregate N Arlington school?

It’s an option program, not a neighborhood school. Kids in option programs can be bused anywhere there is space. That’s why it’s optional. It’s not forced busing and you sound like an idiot even comparing this to that.

You should brush up on your history. Busing for "optional" magnet schools is no less controversial.

Which history is that? Not sure what you’re referring to.

The history of busing and desegregation in Arlington. I am a new poster but the original option schools in Arlington were designed to force desegregation through busing

You should break out your dictionary and look up “option” and “force”.

Or maybe you should look at the history of busing in Arlington. They created an option school at Drew. Then they forcibly bused the kids out of the neighborhood because they could no longer attend at Drew. In fact, they used to bus kids from opposite sides of the street to different schools do kids were broken up from their neighborhood unit. Not saying that is happening here. JUST saying Arlington has a nasty history of using busing to deal with desegregation. It isn't wrong for folks to be concerned even if you think it is no big deal.

This isn’t that. Moving Immersion to WMS actually helps keep more students in their neighborhood schools rather than moving them out for an option program (look at the adjusted Kenmore boundary). It’s an entirely different situation, and sadly it is not unique to Arlington. Desegregation was the right thing to do, it was the wrong approach, and it’s far more complicated than just a schools issue. But in a world in which a duplex can be stopped with just a threat of a lawsuit citing a covenant on a deed from almost 100 years ago, it’s not going to be unwound while I live and breath.

Kids in neighborhood schools aren't any more deserving then kids in choice schools. The move is hard on all students. It will be hard for kids to move out of Gunston. It will be hard for kids to move out of their neighborhood school. We have some kids in immersion now that will be going through their third school move when the program moves from Gunston (when certain neighborhoods were rezone from Claremont to Key, when Key moved buildings and now when Immersion leaves Gunston). That has all been hard.

It’s not a matter of more or less deserving. It’s a matter of choice. Families who have enrolled their children in option schools or programs are aware of trade-offs, such as being far from home (whether that’s a little or a lot far, not going to school with neighbors, being on teams and activities that are not neighborhood-based). Families who have not opted for theses trade-offs should be considered in a different light because they have not signed up for these trade-offs. Also, they don’t have a fall-back if it’s not working out. Families in option programs and schools can always leave and return to the neighborhood school. There is no alternative for families and kids who are at the neighborhood school. See the difference? Lastly, the number of children affected matters. There are so many more kids in neighborhood schools than option programs and schools. The sheer volume alone means their needs take priority. Do we make a decision based on what’s best/most convenient for 300 students, many of whom are not racial or ethnic minorities or economically disadvantaged, or for the 4,000 students, many of whom are racial or ethnic minorities AND economically disadvantaged?

You're a proponent of haves get more and have nots must always suffer. You're a proponent of second-class schools and less worthy students. There is no other way to see your viewpoint. At best, your argument is based on an conclusion (still immoral, as it is) that, by definition, option schools and their students must never receive anything unless neighborhoods first are unaffected. Disavow it all you want... It's people like you who always emerge from the woodwork whenever anything is proposed for options who say neighborhoods are more deserving...more natural...more the way it ought to be (and get off my lawn!).

If you feel slighted return to your neighborhood school. Options should wait not have priority over neighborhood schools, they are not core missions of APS

The option schools are not getting "priority" over neighborhood schools. Dear god. They need to move the option school to a place where it can survive and thrive. That is not giving it priority. But they have an obligation to try to make the program successful for those students same as they have an obligation to try to make neighborhood-based schools successful for that set of students. And sorry, your kid having to take a bus when they used to walk and/or possibly being separated from some friends (something MANY elementary students already do in this County and it really just is not a big deal) is not the top concern, nor should it be.

If the optional educational experience isn’t strong enough to survive anywhere in this geographically small county, then it’s catering to too small of a population. Get rid of it. We don’t have to have all the options folks.

It sounds like you’re making an argument for all option programs to be in North Arlington. You don’t see the flaw there?