Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This should be exhibit A whenever people try to tell you that unions are a bad thing.

Come back when ups raises its delivery costs to reflect this generous compensation package. I doubt you’ll be touting how great this is when the t shirt gift to Timmy costs you 35.00 to ship.

Yup. People are cheering it.

Wait until all of this gross wage inflation gets passed to consumers. It will be runaway wage driven inflation.

It took you 35 working years for you to save and your 401k to become worth $2M? Ooopps too bad, that $2M now worthless because wage inflation has ruined your entire life's savings.

I dunno, my life feels very similar to how it did the last time UPS workers negotiated a bigger salary for full-time employees. The Chicago school has done an impressive job making labor movements the cause for any and all ills in our society.

+1 it is so stupid to say suggest that the entire cost of this will be passed on to consumers and cause a wage-price spiral which hurts workers, especially when a) UPS says it is cutting its revenue forecasts sharply in the article and b) there is ample evidence from the last couple of years that inflation has been caused by firms sticking with high prices they pushed on us from supply chain problems even after those problems are gone.

Basically it’s Panglossian view that says workers should be glad with whatever crumbs management is willing to give them.

Labor costs always get passed on to consumers. You're just an idiot to think otherwise.

Wait until there's a recession or economic slowdown. They will be forced to increase prices are margins become compressed due to rising labor costs. Labor is always the most expensive cost. Price increase will come.

So who should get a good wage then? No one?

Skilled workers, workers with education, entrepreneurs, business owners. Just being a slab of meat to do hardwork shouldn't mean a high salary. Picking up trash is hard work. Roofing is hard work. Junk hauling is hard work. Landscaping is hard work.

You gonna pay them $170k too? Hard work does not automatically mean valuable work.

We are a capitalist society. Wages are set by what the market will bear and by what the industry needs to pay in order to attract sufficient work force to handle the work load. Basically a derivative of supply and demand.

Due to the pandemic and the explosion of on-line purchases and delivery, the need for package delivery staff has gone up. Right now, companies like UPS do not have enough drivers to handle the volume and ensure that delivery quotas and deadlines are met. So, they have to attract more staff and the only way to do that is to increase the salary and compensation offered.

Useless educations do not need to be paid extra. Just because someone has some random useless LA degree, does not mean they deserve to be paid higher. Their degrees add nothing to their market value and employers are not required to pay people back for spending money on an education. I've seen people hired for essentially non-skilled or low-skilled positions and had two employees hired for the same position, but one with a college degree got a significant increase in offer over the one without a degree. Same job, same required skills. The degreed person does not deserve more, but got more because of stupid corporate policies that give bonus incentives to those with a degree.

I think people who take difficult to fill positions for companies making a decent profit are worth more than people who happened to blow four years partying and taking courses in subjects that they'll never use and sit at a desk doing a job that makes no money, and just wastes time. There are thousands of random office workers who are completely replaceable and offer no additional skills or worth for their four years of Spanish and random liberal arts subjects.

Anonymous wrote:The median salary for a pediatrician is $190k:

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291221.htm


So you’re telling me there’s only a $20k delta between a UPS truck driver that has obtained no skills and no education vs a children’s doctor that has a bachelor’s degree, a medical school degree, and post-MD training on top of needing to be board certified? Ridiculous. Oh and with the $300k in med school debt.

They’re overpaying the drivers by a lot. FedEx pays way less. It’s going to crush UPS once this is reflected in the prices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This should be exhibit A whenever people try to tell you that unions are a bad thing.

Come back when ups raises its delivery costs to reflect this generous compensation package. I doubt you’ll be touting how great this is when the t shirt gift to Timmy costs you 35.00 to ship.

Yup. People are cheering it.

Wait until all of this gross wage inflation gets passed to consumers. It will be runaway wage driven inflation.

It took you 35 working years for you to save and your 401k to become worth $2M? Ooopps too bad, that $2M now worthless because wage inflation has ruined your entire life's savings.

I dunno, my life feels very similar to how it did the last time UPS workers negotiated a bigger salary for full-time employees. The Chicago school has done an impressive job making labor movements the cause for any and all ills in our society.

+1 it is so stupid to say suggest that the entire cost of this will be passed on to consumers and cause a wage-price spiral which hurts workers, especially when a) UPS says it is cutting its revenue forecasts sharply in the article and b) there is ample evidence from the last couple of years that inflation has been caused by firms sticking with high prices they pushed on us from supply chain problems even after those problems are gone.

Basically it’s Panglossian view that says workers should be glad with whatever crumbs management is willing to give them.

Labor costs always get passed on to consumers. You're just an idiot to think otherwise.

Wait until there's a recession or economic slowdown. They will be forced to increase prices are margins become compressed due to rising labor costs. Labor is always the most expensive cost. Price increase will come.

So who should get a good wage then? No one?

Skilled workers, workers with education, entrepreneurs, business owners. Just being a slab of meat to do hardwork shouldn't mean a high salary. Picking up trash is hard work. Roofing is hard work. Junk hauling is hard work. Landscaping is hard work.

You gonna pay them $170k too? Hard work does not automatically mean valuable work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

I don’t believe this. Do you have sources? My amazon driver is the same guy every day in the gray amazon sprinter van. I have no idea how that guy is coming to my house (sometimes 2x a day since my dd just had a birthday) daily and isn’t full time. I’ve seen him for over a year too.

My UPS guy has been the same for at least 5 years. They work hard for their money. I say that the private sector should pay what they want to pay. Capitalism. What is wrong is when CEOs are making 40x what the average person makes. That’s the rot in the system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

You're an awful person. There are many reasons people stay in or take on jobs with terrible benefits. Not because they think it's just fine. People deserve a living wage and to have health care and to be able to retire before they're 80.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

You're an awful person. There are many reasons people stay in or take on jobs with terrible benefits. Not because they think it's just fine. People deserve a living wage and to have health care and to be able to retire before they're 80.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

You can't compare flexible gig work to a full-time job! That's like saying that because some people take tutoring gigs, no one should be a teacher, or teachers should be paid the same hourly rate. Or no one should drive municipal busses, we should all just rely on Uber and Lyft as our sole means of transportation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Again, if the job were so terrible and compensation so bad, then no one would do the job. Yet people still do the job. That just goes to show you how vastly over compensated UPS drivers are. Amazon drivers do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Do you have a point? In our at will economy, people drive trucks for Amazon. So obviously the compensation is still fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.

Amazon is not paying any full-time drivers. It's gig work, no benefits. Is that the direction you think all jobs should head? Lowest-bidder, zero-protection, zero-accountability temp workers for everything?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What should a "fair" wage for UPS drivers be? A lot of posters think it's too much but nobody has said what they should earn. And do they provide more value to our economy than most of the folks sitting behind a desk basically pushing papers that use absolutely zero of their college degree to do their job? I'd argue yes.

$50-70k. Pretty much the average between fedex, Dhl, usps, Amazon, etc. they’re about $19-28 /hr, while the union is extorting UPS for $49/ hr. There’s no way ups drivers work that much harder or better than Amazon delivery guys. They’re bring hugely overpaid.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Amazon drivers are getting paid TOO little and being exploited (so we can all have a constant stream of cheap crap from China). We should not try to bring people down to the lowest level.

Wrong.

If Amazon drivers were getting paid to little then no one would do the job, yet people do do the job. UPS management are idiots allowing themselves to be extorted for gross overcompensation while Amazon has shown it can pay a fraction of the cost and be worth over a trillion dollars.