Anonymous
Post 06/06/2023 03:04     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:If you kicked the dog, you assaulted it.


She kicked it because it had attacked her child!

OP. I would bet that this is not the first time this dog has attacked a pedestrian.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2023 02:03     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What was the breed? I bet I can guess.


I believe a Cairn Terrier. Or a mix. It was a smaller dog, probably 15 pounds.



People talk about large breeds but the nastiest dogs I've ever been around are some yappy little ones.


Small dogs are usually more aggressive but are also relatively harmless.

A large dog could easily kill a child. This small dog that OP even admits did very little damage.

I get that the situation was scary but I do think OP overacted. A good washing and some hydrogen peroxide would have saved them a lot of money.

People don’t like to hear it but smaller dogs are just not dangerous. Even the mean ones. It sounds like this dog put it’s all to the attack and still DD didn’t even need stitches? So why does it need to be put down? She could have gotten hurt worse had she just tripped over her own two feet and skinned her knee.

OP, I assume she’s your oldest. Take it from an experienced parents. Little incidences like this will happen often. Scraped knees, hurt feelings, but bites, mean dogs. It’s hard to see our kids hurt but be mindful not to overreact. Your reaction probably scared her more than the little crusty dog.


This is terrible advice. A good washing and hydrogen peroxide is not going to prevent rabies. And yes, the chance is minuscule given that rabies vaccines are given regularly in the us, but as an md and a parent, it’s an unacceptable risk.

My kids are grown now and one was nipped by a neighbor’s dog once, fortunately no skin was broken. Our wonderful neighbor apologized and confirmed the dog was vaccinated with records. From then on, we agreed to keep the kids and dog apart and we continued to have a warm relationship until they moved away years later. OP’s situation is far different. OP had to file a police report to save her daughter from a costly and painful rabies vaccine series. That is beyond the pale.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2023 01:49     Subject: Re:Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you have any further interactions with this neighbor, you need to record it. You already know she’s a liar to a ridiculous degree. She could say that your husband threatened her or even assaulted her, while trying to put on the sweet, pitiful, old lady act.


+1

Exactly this.


Great advice, just adding that you should check to see what the laws are in your state about recoding. Maryland is a two party consent recording state, I believe. Virginia is one party.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 22:45     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
A friend of mine had a dog bite incident recently - she’s claiming you were on her property because in some states (VA included) dogs are given a free pass if they bite while on their property. They are allowed to defend their property (don’t come at me - I disagree with the law but it’s the law).

Tell every single person who asks that you were on the sidewalk. Take photos of that bite wound. Don’t let her bully you.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 22:33     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What was the breed? I bet I can guess.


I believe a Cairn Terrier. Or a mix. It was a smaller dog, probably 15 pounds.



People talk about large breeds but the nastiest dogs I've ever been around are some yappy little ones.


Small dogs are usually more aggressive but are also relatively harmless.

A large dog could easily kill a child. This small dog that OP even admits did very little damage.

I get that the situation was scary but I do think OP overacted. A good washing and some hydrogen peroxide would have saved them a lot of money.

People don’t like to hear it but smaller dogs are just not dangerous. Even the mean ones. It sounds like this dog put it’s all to the attack and still DD didn’t even need stitches? So why does it need to be put down? She could have gotten hurt worse had she just tripped over her own two feet and skinned her knee.

OP, I assume she’s your oldest. Take it from an experienced parents. Little incidences like this will happen often. Scraped knees, hurt feelings, but bites, mean dogs. It’s hard to see our kids hurt but be mindful not to overreact. Your reaction probably scared her more than the little crusty dog.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 20:45     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Looks like we are going to have to go about it the hard way. DH went over to fill discuss payment and concerns about dog and all he got out of it was a thinly veiled threat.

She’s more concerned about the dog catching something while quarantined than she is my kid. Not once did she ask if she was ok. I get some people love their dogs more than people, but I truly can’t imagine. I’d be absolutely torn up if my dog hurt anyone, especially a child.

DD is fine. A big part of me wants to drop it. Let it blow over. I already have this fear we are outsiders in this neighborhood and haven’t been here long enough to form a sense of community. Do I really want to be the neighbor who sued an elderly couple?

Most people in this neighborhood are older retirees who have lived in their houses for decades. We are a young visibly hispanic family. I’m sure it’s all just my own stuff I’m projecting. Everyone aside from little Cujo’s owners have been nothing but kind and welcoming.


When my kids have been treated for injuries, our health insurance company has sent us questionnaires asking where the injuries occurred—I’m assuming to see if there’s anyone else who could be held liable to pay for the medical treatment. I wonder if when your health insurance sees that this was a dog bite related visit they will go after the dog owners’ homeowners insurance.


Insurance lawyer here. Here’s the reality.

- An urgent care bill is a few hundred dollars and it won’t be worth it to the carrier to pursue it.

- If OP were to sue, insurance would come after her if she recovered anything.

- Dog owner‘s insurance might not cover dog bites.

- It’s hard to recover a judgment when there is no insurance and people without insurance don’t settle.

- Damages are usually two to three times the medicals in this area. So, OP would be looking at a potential award or less than $3,000. More than half would go to the attorney - fees are 40% in most cases plus expenses which will be a few hundred. Then OP pays her insurer. She pockets nothing.

OP is right. It’s better to have a minor injury than to have one big enough to sue over it.

A PP who said that suing is hard is right. It is unpleasant, time consuming and takes a lot out of you emotionally.

No surprise that the lawyer with whom OP consulted did not recommend legal action.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 19:34     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
OP, did you consult a personal injury lawyer? Not a general lawyer or real estate lawyer.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 19:32     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Looks like we are going to have to go about it the hard way. DH went over to fill discuss payment and concerns about dog and all he got out of it was a thinly veiled threat.

She’s more concerned about the dog catching something while quarantined than she is my kid. Not once did she ask if she was ok. I get some people love their dogs more than people, but I truly can’t imagine. I’d be absolutely torn up if my dog hurt anyone, especially a child.

DD is fine. A big part of me wants to drop it. Let it blow over. I already have this fear we are outsiders in this neighborhood and haven’t been here long enough to form a sense of community. Do I really want to be the neighbor who sued an elderly couple?

Most people in this neighborhood are older retirees who have lived in their houses for decades. We are a young visibly hispanic family. I’m sure it’s all just my own stuff I’m projecting. Everyone aside from little Cujo’s owners have been nothing but kind and welcoming.


How will you feel if in a few weeks another kid gets attacked but loses an eye or a finger. The fact that the neighbors are doubling down is terrifying. That means they have zero remorse and will do nothing in the future to stop the dog from attacking again. My guess is that if you sue, you will be the neighborhood hero. If they had apologized and offered to pay a small amount, I would have suggested letting it go.


I’d feel terrible. But the responsibility of the dog is not mine, it’s the owners.

I have done everything I needed to do. We filed a police report. Animal control was contacted. Everything is documented.

Me suing will not magically make these people less shut the dog owners. It will not make the dog disappear. It will only cost us money. Most likely more money than we’d get for suing.

We do plan on seeing what our health insurance or their home owners insurance can do.

But we did consult a lawyer who said at this point suing is not worth it. We are so lucky the dog is small and that damage wasn’t worse, because then we would have something to sue over and I much prefer this outcome.


PP here who has settled dogbite claims twice. In both cases (actually in every case I've known of, which is several) the owners homeowners insurance settled with my atty. No one ever saw the inside of a courtroom. For a bite like dd's, it might go something like, your atty asks for 12K, the insurance counters with 6K, you accept, atty keeps 1/3 and you get the rest. I'm not saying it's those exact figures, but this is a real life example from about 10 years ago.

It's not like you're dragging her onto Judge Judy. And you have a very solid case.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 19:22     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
1) it is impossible to commit “assault” against an animal. That is a charge reserved only for humans.

2) if a small dog had attacked my child unprovoked, in the scenario OP described, I would simply have killed the dog outright. Then it can be tested for rabies (at the expense of the dog’s owner).


Yes, OP, you should absolutely get a lawyer, and absolutely sue them for damages.

Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 19:17     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would kill any dog on the spot if it sank its teeth into my kid.


How?


Cut off its air supply. Btw - self defense against an animal is treated a lot differently than self defense against a human, the legal threshold for violence is much lower. I wouldn’t take pleasure in killing a dog but if it’s them vs my young kid I’m not taking any chances, even to prevent a moderate injury I would rather kill a dog than subject my kid to those injuries.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 19:09     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just a quick sidebar to say that sometimes in these situations the best way to handle them for the bite victim is to grab the dog by its rear hips and attempt to drag it. It may release its grip this way and unless it’s of overpowering strength, you can have a lot of control over the dog if you maintain your grip.

While it may be cathartic and a survivalist instinct to kick it like you’re a place kicker in the NFL, grabbing it as I’ve described should be considered.


That may be an option when the dog is small but the victim is an adult. But that is not the way to handle when the victim is a child or if the dog it medium to large. Or if the skin has been broken. The OP did the right thing.

If you grab the dog by the rear hips and attempt to drag it, it may lock its jaws and cause more harm to a child. If you kick it the pain and surprise may cause the dog to release it's jaw, letting the child go, which is what you want. Same if the skin has broken and it is bleeding. The dog clenching the jaw or locking its jaws can cause more tearing of the skin and muscles and possibly terrible scarring. The priority should be to save the victim any additional injury.

Personally, even if I thought of it, I would not use the PP's method.


This is why I couldn’t just pick her up. He was locked on her leg and I was fearful that if I picked her up he’d dig in deeper or the action of pulling her while he was still biting would cause more damage.

The kick did it’s job. It shocked the dog, it immediately stopped biting and ran away.

Not sure what I would have done if it was a very large dog and honestly the idea panics me.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 19:05     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Looks like we are going to have to go about it the hard way. DH went over to fill discuss payment and concerns about dog and all he got out of it was a thinly veiled threat.

She’s more concerned about the dog catching something while quarantined than she is my kid. Not once did she ask if she was ok. I get some people love their dogs more than people, but I truly can’t imagine. I’d be absolutely torn up if my dog hurt anyone, especially a child.

DD is fine. A big part of me wants to drop it. Let it blow over. I already have this fear we are outsiders in this neighborhood and haven’t been here long enough to form a sense of community. Do I really want to be the neighbor who sued an elderly couple?

Most people in this neighborhood are older retirees who have lived in their houses for decades. We are a young visibly hispanic family. I’m sure it’s all just my own stuff I’m projecting. Everyone aside from little Cujo’s owners have been nothing but kind and welcoming.


How will you feel if in a few weeks another kid gets attacked but loses an eye or a finger. The fact that the neighbors are doubling down is terrifying. That means they have zero remorse and will do nothing in the future to stop the dog from attacking again. My guess is that if you sue, you will be the neighborhood hero. If they had apologized and offered to pay a small amount, I would have suggested letting it go.


I’d feel terrible. But the responsibility of the dog is not mine, it’s the owners.

I have done everything I needed to do. We filed a police report. Animal control was contacted. Everything is documented.

Me suing will not magically make these people less shut the dog owners. It will not make the dog disappear. It will only cost us money. Most likely more money than we’d get for suing.

We do plan on seeing what our health insurance or their home owners insurance can do.

But we did consult a lawyer who said at this point suing is not worth it. We are so lucky the dog is small and that damage wasn’t worse, because then we would have something to sue over and I much prefer this outcome.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 18:50     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
You may become the heroes of this neighborhood, OP! I doubt this piece of work hasn’t already made a mark as a terrible neighbor.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 18:44     Subject: Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:Just a quick sidebar to say that sometimes in these situations the best way to handle them for the bite victim is to grab the dog by its rear hips and attempt to drag it. It may release its grip this way and unless it’s of overpowering strength, you can have a lot of control over the dog if you maintain your grip.

While it may be cathartic and a survivalist instinct to kick it like you’re a place kicker in the NFL, grabbing it as I’ve described should be considered.


That may be an option when the dog is small but the victim is an adult. But that is not the way to handle when the victim is a child or if the dog it medium to large. Or if the skin has been broken. The OP did the right thing.

If you grab the dog by the rear hips and attempt to drag it, it may lock its jaws and cause more harm to a child. If you kick it the pain and surprise may cause the dog to release it's jaw, letting the child go, which is what you want. Same if the skin has broken and it is bleeding. The dog clenching the jaw or locking its jaws can cause more tearing of the skin and muscles and possibly terrible scarring. The priority should be to save the victim any additional injury.

Personally, even if I thought of it, I would not use the PP's method.
Anonymous
Post 06/05/2023 18:43     Subject: Re:Small dog attacked toddler while in walk
Anonymous wrote:If you have any further interactions with this neighbor, you need to record it. You already know she’s a liar to a ridiculous degree. She could say that your husband threatened her or even assaulted her, while trying to put on the sweet, pitiful, old lady act.


+1

Exactly this.