Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?

We're not talking about nobility. We're talking about transportation choices. Yours, mine, the OP's, whoever's.

We're also not talking about all or nothing. Maybe you could use your car for this trip but bike, walk, or bus for that trip. Or maybe you could use your car on some days but bike, walk, or Metro on other days. For people with "normal (middle-class) suburban lives with kids", cars are so much the default habit that it really takes an effort to do anything else. That's unfortunate. Sometimes there even are better, more pleasant, more convenient, cheaper non-car options, which people aren't even aware of, because cars are the default habit. Yes, we (in the suburbs) need more frequent buses, safer bike routes, and more sidewalks, but we (middle-class suburbanites) also need to change our mentality and our assumptions.

About 150,000 of the 190,000 FCPS students ride the bus every day. So almost all families in the suburbs are using transportation options other than cars for at least half of their trips.

Instead of inventing fictional people to judge, you should focus on yourself.

I am not judging you. So, why do you feel judged?

Yes, school buses are the only form of public transportation that "normal middle class suburban" people routinely use.

I never said you were judging me, did I? I said that you invented fictional people for the purpose of judging them, which is pretty sad. You should focus on your own choices.

You are inventing fictional people who are judging - well, I don't know who. Other fictional people, I guess.

Why are you so immature? Is it related to the fact that are online 24-7 posting about bicycles?

You know, I was thinking about this earlier. Is it only one poster who has the habit of calling other posters on this forum "immature"? I honestly don't think I've called anybody "immature" since I was in junior high, and that was during the Carter administration. The idea that someone would call me immature, honestly, it makes me giggle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm someone who has always lived in walkable neighborhoods and have always commuted to work by metro or bus. I do a lot of my errands on foot and use my cheap, compact car very little. But, there are simply circumstances in which public transportation will never be as easy or convenient for weekend errands, leisure activities, shopping, etc. The buses or trains don't run often enough, or the stops are not close enough to my destination, or it takes much longer than driving due to connections, transfers, wait times. I'll be carrying big or heavy things. The departure or destination or transfer points don't feel safe or it's too late at night. There will ALWAYS be occasions when I will choose the car.

As for biking, NOTHING will make me move by bike instead. I'm not a strong or skilled cyclist. I would not feel safe even in protected lanes due to faster, more aggressive cyclists. I'm old enough to worry about injuries, even if I'm healthy and fit. I don't want to have to adapt my clothes, accessories, hair just so that I can bike, wear a helmet. I don't want that much exposure to sun, car pollution, cold or hot weather. I don't want to have to purchase a good bike, a collection of safety gear, lights, reflectors, trailers, etc. in order to try to safely do the things by bike that I can easily and more quickly do by car.

And, there will always be plenty of people for whom biking is just not feasible due to the distances they have to cover, health, physical limitations, age, weight and fitness levels. It will never be a solution for everyone.

But neither are cars.

But OP's question is what would it take for people to use public transportation or bikes instead of cars, assuming there will be a solution that will eliminate motoring. The question posed is not why doesn't everyone use cars nor what will it take for everyone to use cars.

No, the OP is just asking what it would take for individual people to consider biking or taking the bus instead of driving. The OP is not asking what it would take to eliminate driving for everyone everywhere always.

Also, many of the answers are "Bikes bad, bus bad, Metro bad, cars 4 ever". I think that the people posting such answers cannot imagine a life where people, who are otherwise like them, can't or don't use cars every time they go anywhere for any purpose.

The PP was literally answering why they wouldn't bike and, while they do utilize public transport, cannot take public transport everywhere. Why are you so easily offended? Go for a ride, it's beautiful outside.

Where are you posting from? It's either raining or about to rain, everywhere in the DC region. Rain is good, but usually people don't say "it's beautiful outside" to describe the weather when it's raining.

So you don’t like to bicycle in the rain?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm someone who has always lived in walkable neighborhoods and have always commuted to work by metro or bus. I do a lot of my errands on foot and use my cheap, compact car very little. But, there are simply circumstances in which public transportation will never be as easy or convenient for weekend errands, leisure activities, shopping, etc. The buses or trains don't run often enough, or the stops are not close enough to my destination, or it takes much longer than driving due to connections, transfers, wait times. I'll be carrying big or heavy things. The departure or destination or transfer points don't feel safe or it's too late at night. There will ALWAYS be occasions when I will choose the car.

As for biking, NOTHING will make me move by bike instead. I'm not a strong or skilled cyclist. I would not feel safe even in protected lanes due to faster, more aggressive cyclists. I'm old enough to worry about injuries, even if I'm healthy and fit. I don't want to have to adapt my clothes, accessories, hair just so that I can bike, wear a helmet. I don't want that much exposure to sun, car pollution, cold or hot weather. I don't want to have to purchase a good bike, a collection of safety gear, lights, reflectors, trailers, etc. in order to try to safely do the things by bike that I can easily and more quickly do by car.

And, there will always be plenty of people for whom biking is just not feasible due to the distances they have to cover, health, physical limitations, age, weight and fitness levels. It will never be a solution for everyone.

But neither are cars.

But OP's question is what would it take for people to use public transportation or bikes instead of cars, assuming there will be a solution that will eliminate motoring. The question posed is not why doesn't everyone use cars nor what will it take for everyone to use cars.

No, the OP is just asking what it would take for individual people to consider biking or taking the bus instead of driving. The OP is not asking what it would take to eliminate driving for everyone everywhere always.

Also, many of the answers are "Bikes bad, bus bad, Metro bad, cars 4 ever". I think that the people posting such answers cannot imagine a life where people, who are otherwise like them, can't or don't use cars every time they go anywhere for any purpose.

The PP was literally answering why they wouldn't bike and, while they do utilize public transport, cannot take public transport everywhere. Why are you so easily offended? Go for a ride, it's beautiful outside.

Where are you posting from? It's either raining or about to rain, everywhere in the DC region. Rain is good, but usually people don't say "it's beautiful outside" to describe the weather when it's raining.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?

We're not talking about nobility. We're talking about transportation choices. Yours, mine, the OP's, whoever's.

We're also not talking about all or nothing. Maybe you could use your car for this trip but bike, walk, or bus for that trip. Or maybe you could use your car on some days but bike, walk, or Metro on other days. For people with "normal (middle-class) suburban lives with kids", cars are so much the default habit that it really takes an effort to do anything else. That's unfortunate. Sometimes there even are better, more pleasant, more convenient, cheaper non-car options, which people aren't even aware of, because cars are the default habit. Yes, we (in the suburbs) need more frequent buses, safer bike routes, and more sidewalks, but we (middle-class suburbanites) also need to change our mentality and our assumptions.

About 150,000 of the 190,000 FCPS students ride the bus every day. So almost all families in the suburbs are using transportation options other than cars for at least half of their trips.

Instead of inventing fictional people to judge, you should focus on yourself.

I am not judging you. So, why do you feel judged?

Yes, school buses are the only form of public transportation that "normal middle class suburban" people routinely use.

I never said you were judging me, did I? I said that you invented fictional people for the purpose of judging them, which is pretty sad. You should focus on your own choices.

You are inventing fictional people who are judging - well, I don't know who. Other fictional people, I guess.

Why are you so immature? Is it related to the fact that are online 24-7 posting about bicycles?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm someone who has always lived in walkable neighborhoods and have always commuted to work by metro or bus. I do a lot of my errands on foot and use my cheap, compact car very little. But, there are simply circumstances in which public transportation will never be as easy or convenient for weekend errands, leisure activities, shopping, etc. The buses or trains don't run often enough, or the stops are not close enough to my destination, or it takes much longer than driving due to connections, transfers, wait times. I'll be carrying big or heavy things. The departure or destination or transfer points don't feel safe or it's too late at night. There will ALWAYS be occasions when I will choose the car.

As for biking, NOTHING will make me move by bike instead. I'm not a strong or skilled cyclist. I would not feel safe even in protected lanes due to faster, more aggressive cyclists. I'm old enough to worry about injuries, even if I'm healthy and fit. I don't want to have to adapt my clothes, accessories, hair just so that I can bike, wear a helmet. I don't want that much exposure to sun, car pollution, cold or hot weather. I don't want to have to purchase a good bike, a collection of safety gear, lights, reflectors, trailers, etc. in order to try to safely do the things by bike that I can easily and more quickly do by car.

And, there will always be plenty of people for whom biking is just not feasible due to the distances they have to cover, health, physical limitations, age, weight and fitness levels. It will never be a solution for everyone.

But neither are cars.

But OP's question is what would it take for people to use public transportation or bikes instead of cars, assuming there will be a solution that will eliminate motoring. The question posed is not why doesn't everyone use cars nor what will it take for everyone to use cars.

No, the OP is just asking what it would take for individual people to consider biking or taking the bus instead of driving. The OP is not asking what it would take to eliminate driving for everyone everywhere always.

Also, many of the answers are "Bikes bad, bus bad, Metro bad, cars 4 ever". I think that the people posting such answers cannot imagine a life where people, who are otherwise like them, can't or don't use cars every time they go anywhere for any purpose.

The PP was literally answering why they wouldn't bike and, while they do utilize public transport, cannot take public transport everywhere. Why are you so easily offended? Go for a ride, it's beautiful outside.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?

We're not talking about nobility. We're talking about transportation choices. Yours, mine, the OP's, whoever's.

We're also not talking about all or nothing. Maybe you could use your car for this trip but bike, walk, or bus for that trip. Or maybe you could use your car on some days but bike, walk, or Metro on other days. For people with "normal (middle-class) suburban lives with kids", cars are so much the default habit that it really takes an effort to do anything else. That's unfortunate. Sometimes there even are better, more pleasant, more convenient, cheaper non-car options, which people aren't even aware of, because cars are the default habit. Yes, we (in the suburbs) need more frequent buses, safer bike routes, and more sidewalks, but we (middle-class suburbanites) also need to change our mentality and our assumptions.

About 150,000 of the 190,000 FCPS students ride the bus every day. So almost all families in the suburbs are using transportation options other than cars for at least half of their trips.

Instead of inventing fictional people to judge, you should focus on yourself.

I am not judging you. So, why do you feel judged?

Yes, school buses are the only form of public transportation that "normal middle class suburban" people routinely use.

I never said you were judging me, did I? I said that you invented fictional people for the purpose of judging them, which is pretty sad. You should focus on your own choices.

You are inventing fictional people who are judging - well, I don't know who. Other fictional people, I guess.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?

We're not talking about nobility. We're talking about transportation choices. Yours, mine, the OP's, whoever's.

We're also not talking about all or nothing. Maybe you could use your car for this trip but bike, walk, or bus for that trip. Or maybe you could use your car on some days but bike, walk, or Metro on other days. For people with "normal (middle-class) suburban lives with kids", cars are so much the default habit that it really takes an effort to do anything else. That's unfortunate. Sometimes there even are better, more pleasant, more convenient, cheaper non-car options, which people aren't even aware of, because cars are the default habit. Yes, we (in the suburbs) need more frequent buses, safer bike routes, and more sidewalks, but we (middle-class suburbanites) also need to change our mentality and our assumptions.

About 150,000 of the 190,000 FCPS students ride the bus every day. So almost all families in the suburbs are using transportation options other than cars for at least half of their trips.

Instead of inventing fictional people to judge, you should focus on yourself.

I am not judging you. So, why do you feel judged?

Yes, school buses are the only form of public transportation that "normal middle class suburban" people routinely use.

I never said you were judging me, did I? I said that you invented fictional people for the purpose of judging them, which is pretty sad. You should focus on your own choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would need affordable housing and better schools in DC to live near enough to my job to bike.

For metro: I suppose I could drive and park at the metro and then metro to work - but that would take longer than driving and cost more than gas (I get free parking at work).

This is a major factor in people's choices. When there is free parking, people are more likely to choose to drive by themselves than when they have to pay for parking.

That people take cost into consideration of their choices is not revolutionary insight. Time is also a cost that people take into consideration, which is something that you don’t seem to understand.

OP's question is: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?

So one answer is: if people who currently don't have to pay for parking would have to pay for parking.

Anonymous wrote:I'm in the minority here, but I love DC buses. I live in southern Columbia Heights between the U street and Columbia Heights metros and there are many bus options. So many up and down 14th street, up and down ~11th up to Ft. Totten, the crosstown H buses. I could go on. What makes it great is that there are so many options, so while the H2 may only come every 20 minutes the H4 also takes me just about where I need to go and they both stop a few blocks from my house. I take the bus to work every day because the 8 minute walk to the stop is a nice way to start and end my work day and because the bus ride takes the same amount of time as driving.

I love the buses because they work for me. Most people in the suburbs do not have the density of options that I do. That's what is needed - more buses that come frequently and reliably. Same for the metro, though that's much harder to do.

I don't ride a bike so no informed opinions there.

I am with you to a certain degree. I prefer the bus to the Metro and ride at least 2 buses daily to and from my home in Chevy Chase, DC to either my job near GWU or the Friendship Heights Metro Station. I live a good 20-25 minute walk from the closest Metro Station. Our closest bus route -- the E6 -- was eliminated, opportunistically by WMATA, during COVID.
However, after commuting via public transportation (including bike-share, bus, Metro, and walking) since we returned to a hybrid work environment in Fall 2021, I can honestly say that I wish I could afford to drive. I am so tired of checking bus schedules, waiting anxiously in vain for buses that fail to arrive, and standing, walking and rushing about in the rain, in the cold, and in the dark. I am oftentimes the only person on the streets walking home in the dark. Other routes, including the E4 and the L2 are okay, but often involve a 20-25 minute wait each, which added up, makes my commute of 7.3 miles last over an hour.

If I need to stop on my way home, for anything, I've got to figure out how to resume my journey and have had to expend energy at the end of a long day trying to hustle up and put together various modes of transportation, including bike share, bus, walking and Metro. It is utterly exhausting.

I'll gladly welcome free bus rides post 7/1 and will continue to commute via public transportation; however, it'll be only because I cannot afford to park downtown that drives this choice, not because it's easier or more convenient -- because it's not for me. Relying on public transportation in DC -- again, at least for me -- is inconvenient, very time-consuming, frustrating, restricting, and inefficient as a daily option.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?

We're not talking about nobility. We're talking about transportation choices. Yours, mine, the OP's, whoever's.

We're also not talking about all or nothing. Maybe you could use your car for this trip but bike, walk, or bus for that trip. Or maybe you could use your car on some days but bike, walk, or Metro on other days. For people with "normal (middle-class) suburban lives with kids", cars are so much the default habit that it really takes an effort to do anything else. That's unfortunate. Sometimes there even are better, more pleasant, more convenient, cheaper non-car options, which people aren't even aware of, because cars are the default habit. Yes, we (in the suburbs) need more frequent buses, safer bike routes, and more sidewalks, but we (middle-class suburbanites) also need to change our mentality and our assumptions.

About 150,000 of the 190,000 FCPS students ride the bus every day. So almost all families in the suburbs are using transportation options other than cars for at least half of their trips.

Instead of inventing fictional people to judge, you should focus on yourself.

I am not judging you. So, why do you feel judged?

Yes, school buses are the only form of public transportation that "normal middle class suburban" people routinely use.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?

We're not talking about nobility. We're talking about transportation choices. Yours, mine, the OP's, whoever's.

We're also not talking about all or nothing. Maybe you could use your car for this trip but bike, walk, or bus for that trip. Or maybe you could use your car on some days but bike, walk, or Metro on other days. For people with "normal (middle-class) suburban lives with kids", cars are so much the default habit that it really takes an effort to do anything else. That's unfortunate. Sometimes there even are better, more pleasant, more convenient, cheaper non-car options, which people aren't even aware of, because cars are the default habit. Yes, we (in the suburbs) need more frequent buses, safer bike routes, and more sidewalks, but we (middle-class suburbanites) also need to change our mentality and our assumptions.

About 150,000 of the 190,000 FCPS students ride the bus every day. So almost all families in the suburbs are using transportation options other than cars for at least half of their trips.

Instead of inventing fictional people to judge, you should focus on yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would need affordable housing and better schools in DC to live near enough to my job to bike.

For metro: I suppose I could drive and park at the metro and then metro to work - but that would take longer than driving and cost more than gas (I get free parking at work).

This is a major factor in people's choices. When there is free parking, people are more likely to choose to drive by themselves than when they have to pay for parking.

That people take cost into consideration of their choices is not revolutionary insight. Time is also a cost that people take into consideration, which is something that you don’t seem to understand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?

We're not talking about nobility. We're talking about transportation choices. Yours, mine, the OP's, whoever's.

We're also not talking about all or nothing. Maybe you could use your car for this trip but bike, walk, or bus for that trip. Or maybe you could use your car on some days but bike, walk, or Metro on other days. For people with "normal (middle-class) suburban lives with kids", cars are so much the default habit that it really takes an effort to do anything else. That's unfortunate. Sometimes there even are better, more pleasant, more convenient, cheaper non-car options, which people aren't even aware of, because cars are the default habit. Yes, we (in the suburbs) need more frequent buses, safer bike routes, and more sidewalks, but we (middle-class suburbanites) also need to change our mentality and our assumptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?

Why do you think anyone would define their personality or identity by riding a bike? My DH has been a bike commuter for 12 years and, while he likes the fact it minimises his carbon footprint, it’s nothing more than a mode of transport and a way to build exercise into his long work days. I know a bunch of people who commute by bike and none of them pin their identities on riding a bike.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not having children. Before kids we rented an apartment in Cleveland Park (no yard, no home maintenance) and walked or took the Metro almost everywhere. What else did we have to do besides eat brunch and workout? Nothing!
I lived for years without a car in Cleveland and Chicago as well.

I live in a fairly walkable area. I can walk to the post office, library, bank, hair salon, dentist, a few restaurants, and a small grocery store that has basics like milk and eggs.

It is not practical to use the bus to shop at Target or to pick up a week of groceries for a family of 4. My kids have activities and I work full time. My office and my home are both a block from Wilson Blvd in Arlington and are less than 3 miles apart. I could take the bus except my kids need to be places at specific times and I don’t have time to wait for the bus and then walk from the bus stop to their school. Even if a bus came every 7 minutes, it only takes me 6 minutes to drive from my office to their school.

I can use my car to carpool in my fuel efficient car and plan my errands to batch them up and shop as close and local as possible - OR I could use the bus and Metro and buy everything from Amazon. I am pretty sure having shampoo shipped to my doorstep in a cardboard box is more wasteful than a shared trip to Costco with my neighbor every 3 months.

Public transit is not always automatically better.

People actually do this, though. Many people can't drive or don't have cars, and that is what they do. Maybe "inconvenient" would be a better word.

Some people do. Maybe they can’t afford a car or can’t drive for medical reasons. However I maintain that only using a bike or public transit is either done out of desperation or because it’s a lifestyle and how you define your personality. If biking everywhere is your hobby and exercise, great. For the rest of us with normal suburban lives with kids, I maintain that biking and public transit is not the hill to die on. Vehicle choice and usage can be part of a a bigger picture. Maybe I bike everywhere and tote my produce in cotton bags from the farmers market but I also fly to visit family in California 6 times a year or have hobbies like skiing or golfing that require massive water use for irrigation or fake snow. Is the dedicated biker who outwardly appears eco conscious really more noble than the family who drives kids 3-6 miles to sports multiple times a week but never flies for vacation and instead drives to the MD/DE beach or a State park once a year?