Anonymous wrote:Why not shoot for something like ivy or Stanford or Duke? Your child has the stats to at least play the lottery, and that way you wouldn’t be stuck with a lack of options

Anonymous wrote:Shameful if Eagle is not valued. If done correctly it is a testament to leadership, dedication, and internal motivation. If an AO thinks its is toxic then that is a place that will not get my $$$. Im getting fed up with this; why are some activities toxic and others get the praises of rainbows (elected happiness captain of the hurt feelings club at school?) Real life is NOT everyone gets a trophy and everyone has an equal outcome. Sorry but not sorry that I for one think all of this holistic admission, TO stuff is utter horse-crap, esp in the STEM fields where outcomes can mean life and death (I want the doctor who knows their shit factually despite their somewhat less than warm and fuzzy personality, I want the person designing infrastructure to be wicked smart at what they do as well). Kids should be looked at based on their actual numerical stats, teacher recommendations that speak to their ability in the classroom and their more touchy-feely qualities, and whether or not they spent their time outside of school doing productive things. All of the other stuff is just "resume padding". So many college professors are saying that the students just are not ready for the coursework.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all OP, this is extremely rude. There are so many students who have worked so hard and every bit as capable as your child (boy or girl? Who knows?) who do not have these acceptances. Second of all, what kind of high school are we talking about? GPAs vary so much and the top ranked college programs know that a 4.0 at one school—especially one that calls more than the top 1% the top 1%, that makes no sense—is very different than a more rigorous school. Your kid has great choices. Stop making him or her feel bad.

Why are you and some of the rest such as--holes. OP is allowed to be disappointed. OP is allowed to vent. These kids kill themselves for 4 years in the hopes that they'll get into dream schools. Your kids do it too. All kids do it. When that doesn't happen, some roll with it. Some are upset. And there is nothing bad about that. (And yes, parent feelings are valid. We are the ones watching them kill themselves).

If you don't have something constructive to say. If you can't empathize nicely. Then just shut the EF up. I'm sick of the piling on, nasty, judgmental responses to valid feelings on here.

This is the problem. Kids should not be "killing themselves" for something that rarely works out.
Since this "killing" starts at age 13 in quite a few kids it is at least initially parent driven.
Parents should know better.
It's so warped.

Agree! My kids worked hard but they did not “kill themselves.” Sleep and balance were important to us.

Balance is key. We found that decisions should not be 100% made on "aiming for elite universities/any universities". Don't take AP Eng/AP FL/APUSH/APCalcBC/etc just to check a box---take courses that interest you and won't overwhelm you so you don't get any sleep. Maintain rigor, but that doesn't have to mean 6 AP per year.
My kid skipped APUSH/AP Eng and focused on STEM APs as a future engineer. Only reason they would have taken the APUSH/AP eng was to get out of it in college. Well, turns out their ultimate top 2 choices come April do NOT give AP credit for "core curriculum" classes---you gotta take them at the university. So my kid was extremely happy with the decision to focus on STEM AP (4 each year Jr/Sr) and skip the others and then have time for 20-25 hour/week for their outside school EC. My kid was happier, less stressed and got 5 hours of sleep each night (not 2-3 which would have happened if they added the other APs). Got into 2 T40 schools, got deferred/rejected at T10 and WL at T30. Maybe the extra APs would have gotten them in, but I doubt it---fact is acceptance rates are less than 10%. My kid had a more balanced HS experience because of this and is happy where they landed

Good for your kid. Many people I know say that APUSH is their favorite course in high school. Even if they later go on to STEM or other majors and fields that have nothing to do with history. It is usually taught by a dynamic teacher who is passionate about the subject and doesn’t bound themselves by the curriculum. So it is remembered by the students far longer than other run-of-the-mill AP classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I get what everyone is saying but please stop saying a kid with:

4.0, never less than an A in 7 years
9 APs including the most rigorous sci & math
Strong ECs strongly aligning with academic interest
1550 one sitting
Eagle Scout

is a dime a dozen, HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of kids, SO typical.

No. Not true. Not here. Not anywhere.

OP's kid will thrive because that's who he is and we can all look at this theoretically and say, oh whatever college is fine he'll be a success who cares it's such an honor to go to gmu...

It is disappointing and yes, on some level, unfair how this is all going down.

She's allowed to be upset. You are allowed to criticize her. And I am allowed to call you a clown.

In the top pools to the top programs in their desired major, yes, they are.

And the top two highly overweighted things in the eyes of moms (but not of admissions officers) are part-time jobs and Eagle Scouts. Sorry. No one’s impressed.

. What do you base your last sentence on? Are you an AO?

Not the previous poster but I'll bite:

The private counselor we engaged said that Eagle Scout is not impressive to elite colleges because 1. it's common 2. it's mostly an "individual" accomplishment, as opposed to something that is elected by one's peers (e.g., class president, team captain) and 3. it's more of a testament to being able to manage paperwork and checking off boxes (and she made the same comment about the Congressional Award.) I did get the impression that at lower tier colleges it was valued more highly.

My hypothesis (in addition to the above) is that AOs at top colleges are typically not the type of demographic that favor scouting, as they are typically more liberal than average and may view the entire organization as irrelevant or, worse, toxic.

I agree that Eagle Scout status is not highly valued by elite schools. There are a variety of reasons including the type of kid who remains in scouting through his teens. Nonetheless, some lower level schools offer merit awards to Eagle Scouts. I do not recall the list of schools other than the University of Mississippi. The others should be easy to discover through a google search.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I get what everyone is saying but please stop saying a kid with:

4.0, never less than an A in 7 years
9 APs including the most rigorous sci & math
Strong ECs strongly aligning with academic interest
1550 one sitting
Eagle Scout

is a dime a dozen, HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of kids, SO typical.

No. Not true. Not here. Not anywhere.

OP's kid will thrive because that's who he is and we can all look at this theoretically and say, oh whatever college is fine he'll be a success who cares it's such an honor to go to gmu...

It is disappointing and yes, on some level, unfair how this is all going down.

She's allowed to be upset. You are allowed to criticize her. And I am allowed to call you a clown.

In the top pools to the top programs in their desired major, yes, they are.

And the top two highly overweighted things in the eyes of moms (but not of admissions officers) are part-time jobs and Eagle Scouts. Sorry. No one’s impressed.

. What do you base your last sentence on? Are you an AO?

Not the previous poster but I'll bite:

The private counselor we engaged said that Eagle Scout is not impressive to elite colleges because 1. it's common [no it isn't, and it's not even common among elite applicants]
2. it's mostly an "individual" accomplishment, as opposed to something that is elected by one's peers (e.g., class president, team captain) [an individual accomplishment you had to work for absolutely should be valued more than winning a popularity contest]
3. it's more of a testament to being able to manage paperwork and checking off boxes [Well, no it isn't, but this describes many other extracurriculars, and therefore so what]

I did get the impression that at lower tier colleges it was valued more highly.
My hypothesis (in addition to the above) is that AOs at top colleges are typically not the type of demographic that favor scouting, as they are typically more liberal than average and may view the entire organization as irrelevant or, worse, toxic.