Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 19:03     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.


Other countries have mothers too - Canada for example. No one has such a shi11ty life as mothers in America.

The only model I have seen working well here is educated immigrant family (with no dysfunction) that have a multi-generational family and are well-off.

I am a SAHM who never returned to work. Kids are launching soon. I will help them with whatever they need in terms of childcare help. For both my son and daughter.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 19:01     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.


I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?


Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)


The problem is that you believe the only way for things to change is if women stay in the workforce while continuing to work the second and third shift at home.

That’s sort of like saying to BIPOC, “the only way to change things is work really really hard to get yourselves out of poverty, obey the police, and maybe one day you’ll be in a position to make some sort of change in the way you’re treated”. But the answer to oppression isn’t for the oppressed to take on even more burden.

There needs to be cultural and societal change, as well as change among those who benefit from the oppression. Men need to step it up - a LOT. There needs to be pushes for legislation to support working moms. What moms CAN do is hold their husbands accountable, raise their girls to expect more from men, raise their boys to be feminists, and work towards making change that benefits all women, even if it doesn’t benefit them directly (like voting for candidates that support parental leave even if they’re a SAHM).
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 18:59     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
^ a negative impact on that one part of society as a whole! It’s not overall bad for society. I should have edited before posting. 🤦🏼‍♀️
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 18:57     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.


I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?


Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)


If your spouse is not an equal partner at home, you have a partner issue. Believe it or not some of us choose to drop out of the workforce. There is nothing that great about working and when you leave that job or are dead, you will not be missed and there is someone else to replace you. I am much happier being home than working. I'm thankful you aren't my partner because I never considered it a choice because of my parents and my husband gave me the choice and would have supported me either way. He's very much an equal partner and very involved. He would have gladly been the one to stay home too but he had more earning potentioal.

You are making this about you, your relationship and projecting it on other. Nothing wrong with being a caregiver.


I’m actually a SAHM, and i said that it is the best thing for me. All the stuff I’m saying about women being presumed to be the primary caregiver and the quantifiable issues that creates are based on research that has been done about it, not my own experience. I can both say I made a valid and defensible choice to become a stay at home mom and that it does have a negative impact on society as a whole.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 18:39     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.


I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?


Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)


If your spouse is not an equal partner at home, you have a partner issue. Believe it or not some of us choose to drop out of the workforce. There is nothing that great about working and when you leave that job or are dead, you will not be missed and there is someone else to replace you. I am much happier being home than working. I'm thankful you aren't my partner because I never considered it a choice because of my parents and my husband gave me the choice and would have supported me either way. He's very much an equal partner and very involved. He would have gladly been the one to stay home too but he had more earning potentioal.

You are making this about you, your relationship and projecting it on other. Nothing wrong with being a caregiver.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 18:29     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.


I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?


Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 18:06     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t get why everyone thinks all stay at home moms are wealthy. We were decidedly NOT. We made a lot of sacrifices and had some very very tough times. But we felt it was important for me to be at home.

There are 2 classes of SAH parents. One doesn't need a 2nd income to survive. They are wealthy even if they call themselves middle class. The other won't earn enough to survive anyway. They are poor and rely on a combination of government benefits and other contributions. Which are you?


It’s actually none of your business but I’ve been both. Started off as one, ended up as another.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 18:05     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.


I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?


I don’t get this either. The one woman wants short work hours and longer school hours -it’s as if she doesn’t want her kid around at all. I work out of necessity (crushing student loan and medical debt), but I don’t understand this at all.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 18:02     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.


I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 17:15     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I have two children with special needs that needed quite bit more intensive parenting and time. I was a very reluctant SAHP, but for us it was the only way to manage things. DH made 50% more than me so once the decision was made to have one person at home to manage/learn/teach things, it would have been ridiculous to choose the salary that was 40% of our HHI instead of the one that was 60%. So, as salaries equalize, I think we will see more SAHDs in families with our dynamics, but that will take a bit longer.

I never thought I was going to be a SAHP for the long haul, but because of the additional time it took to make sure our children were getting what they needed from the school, and additional care needed for my parents, I was home longer. Now, DH is about 4 years away from retiring and I am not motivated to try to ramp up a career for four years. I volunteer my time towards helping other parents in similar situations whose children are still in K-12.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 13:51     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
LOL, childless single women and SAHMs get the most judgment of all humans, not even dead beat dads get this kind of treatment. It’s like women must juggle to “have it all”, no matter if they don’t want to or even need to. Everyone must fit in same mold.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 13:46     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
You only get to live once, live your own life. What works for the goose, doesn’t necessarily works for the gander. Don’t worry about how people will judge you, people will find their objections no matter what you do.
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 13:35     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


If you make $120K, it’s a choice. Just not one you wanted to make. So instead you want another segment of society to change what THEY do to make your choice more convenient for you.


You can make it on $120K but you choose not to. I was making $70K, but by the time I paid taxes, gas, union dues and all the other stuff out of my pay check it barely covered day care for one child, so it wasn't worth working (plus having to work late many nights which was another child care issue).
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 13:34     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m a former Mormon and many of my friends are SAHMs with husbands who are moderate earners. I know they have their stressful times but it’s amazing what they can do. Stack coupons and make freezer meals to get their grocery budget down to 400 a month for a family of six, buy and sell kids’ toys and clothes on Craigslist, see the potential in all kinds of ugly clothes at the thrift store and use their sewing machines to make them look awesome, find all the best free kids activities, switch off babysitting for date nights, get their kids into jobs young and make them use the money to pay for their own activities and college, etc. Often they use pictures of Jesus and family photos to decorate and I want to sit them down and go through a shelter magazine with them, but their lives are definitely no worse than that of those in stressful equitable marriages. And I’m sure there are many of all cultural backgrounds who would just rather live this way instead of having two working parents.

(I used to be like this now DH makes a lot of money. I am embarrassed about how we spend money when I’m around Mormon friends and family. I miss the financial challenge, yet I can’t imagine doing things like driving half an hour for a good deal on a bag of kids’ clothes like i used to)


That is interesting. Thanks for posting


How is this not an equitable marriage? If the wife chooses to stay home and has full access to money it is equitable. Equitable because both are working aren't necessarily equitable if one parent is doing the bulk of the housework and cleaning while working.

I shop sales and clearances. I get a lot of clothing new that is cheaper than used. How is driving 30 minutes for clothing any different than driving 30 minutes to a mall or store? I get a lot online now.


Former Mormon PP here. I am using the term “equitable marriage” to mean splitting earning and housework/childcare equally, in opposition to traditional marriages. I’m not suggesting it’a unfair or unequal. Maybe there is a better term out there.

As for driving for clothes, I used to drive longer distances to get a whole bag of kids’ clothes and shoes for five bucks. I did that in addition to buying clearance but the bags were usually cheaper and better. Now I buy things online from target, full price. I used to drive to the cheaper stores too.

But of course my main point is that for these moms, the opportunity cost of staying home is zero.


I can afford full price but I'd rather bargain shop. If I can get 70% off Target, why pay full price (I don't shop at Target anymore as their prices went up, quality down) but lots of low cost options. I don't like used as most of it is very worn looking.

A "traditional" marriage would be wife home/husband works. Financially, given my salary even with a masters with child care it didn't pay for me to work. So, my husband was able to increase his income and with taxes/low salary it still wasn't worth me going back (then covid).
Anonymous
Post 01/23/2022 13:33     Subject: SAHMs that never return to workforce?
Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.


I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.