Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but I can tell you that if I had told my dad that someone had done that, he would grabbed one of those kids and told them all that he was going to figure out which one of them did it and break their legs, and they would have believed him and been looking over their shoulders for days. They definitely would have thought twice before doing something dumb like that again. It's annoying that sometimes its the only way some guys learn that lesson, but on the other hand, if a scary adult man chews you out for being a jerk, it can really stick.

There is absolutely no reason to let any boy or man of any age get away with something like that. Scream at them, all of them. Shame them. Let the whole crowd feel bad--I don't care if some of them feel like its a "false accusation." Then the lesson is, pick better friends.

What other crimes has your dad committed? I'm so glad you got away from such a horrific person and are in a safe place now. The way you describe him, sounds like he should be locked up for life.

Haha. People love my dad, he was citizen of the year in our town. But he was also a volunteer addiction counselor at the jail and did not tolerate bullshit from anybody.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but I can tell you that if I had told my dad that someone had done that, he would grabbed one of those kids and told them all that he was going to figure out which one of them did it and break their legs, and they would have believed him and been looking over their shoulders for days. They definitely would have thought twice before doing something dumb like that again. It's annoying that sometimes its the only way some guys learn that lesson, but on the other hand, if a scary adult man chews you out for being a jerk, it can really stick.

There is absolutely no reason to let any boy or man of any age get away with something like that. Scream at them, all of them. Shame them. Let the whole crowd feel bad--I don't care if some of them feel like its a "false accusation." Then the lesson is, pick better friends.

What other crimes has your dad committed? I'm so glad you got away from such a horrific person and are in a safe place now. The way you describe him, sounds like he should be locked up for life.

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but I can tell you that if I had told my dad that someone had done that, he would grabbed one of those kids and told them all that he was going to figure out which one of them did it and break their legs, and they would have believed him and been looking over their shoulders for days. They definitely would have thought twice before doing something dumb like that again. It's annoying that sometimes its the only way some guys learn that lesson, but on the other hand, if a scary adult man chews you out for being a jerk, it can really stick.

There is absolutely no reason to let any boy or man of any age get away with something like that. Scream at them, all of them. Shame them. Let the whole crowd feel bad--I don't care if some of them feel like its a "false accusation." Then the lesson is, pick better friends.

Anonymous wrote:Wow there is a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking here for a pretty unusual situation. I am sure we will all be prepared for the next butt pinching though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Of course you can...however, it's highly unlikely that your kids will ever experience a false accusation.

Throughout my careet, I've had to deal with apologist, enabling mothers like you, who become defensive of their baby's without ever knowing the facts, giving every excuse in the book as to why your child is innocent (usually reverting back to the good old fashioned victim-blaming).

However it is a truly rare day when their child gets falsely accused; because mothers like you usually raise children that there are valid grounds for accusations against.

Oh, and the majority of hotel chains are required to have cameras in the pool area, for insurance purposes -- so, you should be less worried about your sweet, sensitive & misunderstood little Larlo being falsely accused, and more worried about he and/or his friends predatory nature.

I've been an investigator for the past 16 years, and I've sadly become keenly aware of what a liar
or a predators instinctual body language looks like.

It seems as if these boys have barely reached puberty themselves -- so, right away we know that they're not practiced, seasoned liars or predators (they're usually not, but there's always a chance that they are).

A good example that comes to mind is Josh Duggar -- a large reason that he was able to proliferate so out of control and molest for as long as he did (with as many girls as he victimized) was because he has horrible, selfish, enabling, apologist parents, who constantly run defense & covering up for them.

So, chances are good that these boys aren't sitting at home and googling things like "how to beat a lie detector test", "how to avoid the appearance of guilt" or "how to avoid detection" during their free time between soccer practice and dinner, which makes determining which boy did it even easier (if there isn't video proof).

That being said, any parent on here should be able to detect which boy assaulted her with just a few simple questions.... varied facial expressions & affiliated reactions will indicate when someone is lying.

Some of these reactions are caused by nervousness, some are involuntary reactions caused by guilt & shame, some are chemical reactions that can't be hid and others are a blatant physical reaction.

Since these boys are just kids themselves, you won't need the entire checklist, just a few basics should do.

If there is no identifying footage from the hotel for you to review, you start by confronting the group as a whole, stating the facts as your daughter gave them (no yelling or freaking out ifc that can be helped, as a stern, authoritative demeanor is much effective).

There won't be any of this silly & insulting "if she even remembers" like the PP said in her previous post -- as these details are usually etched into a victim's mind after it occurs (and primarily after the first time it occurs).

Many victims of sexual assault atest that there are details that they'll never, ever forget, for as long as they live... for example, the smells (ie; the smell of his skin, his breath, his sweat, what he was wearing when they were assaulted, etc).

If the other 2 or 3 boy are NOT involved, they'll usually look one of two ways... they'll either look totally shocked and/or completely speechless at such an implausible accusation, sometimes they'll stammer from shock too.

If they ARE aware of who did it (but the guilty party is not themselves) is where kids being young and untrained in deception comes in handy for you, because they'll tell you the answer with just a few involuntarily reactions (or they' could potentially volunteer the info to you immediately, it all depends on either how scared/intimidated they are of you, or possibly their moral sensibilities kick in).

It's ALL in the eyes.

1. The most likely way to determine who the guilty party is (if they know who it is) is they'll unintentionally dart their eyes directly towards the guilty party without even realizing they're doing it (now multiply that same reaction by the 2 or 3 other innocent boys) and you'll most likely have your answer.

Sometimes they'll also intentionally dart their eyes towards the guilty party, in the hopes of someone picking up on it without having to rat on their friend in front of them.

2. There will most likely be a physiological reaction in the guilty party, and this occurs when the guilty party feels trapped, cornered or feels they've been detected by your questioning (questions that they do NOT want to answer).
This action reverts back to the cavemen, when people had to seek out actual escape routes in order to survive dangerous or perilous situations (such as facing a deadly animal or even human adversary).

I know it sounds strange to hear that we have instincts today derived from the cavemen, but this reaction is one that stems from millions of years of muscle memory throughout evolutionary history.

3. Be aware of their blinking.
When someone is having a relaxed conversation, they'll ordinarily blink approx 5 or 6 times a minute (or once every 10 - 12 seconds) however when someone is stressed out because they know they've been caught doing something wrong, they'll blink 5 or 6 times in rapid succession.

4.Count how long a person closes their eyes for when being questioned directly (one on one)

When someone closes their eyes for a long second or two, its usually an indication that they're lying or feel guilty.
This is a type of defense mechanism brought on by guilt & shame; and similar to the blinking, they're trying to avoid making direct eye contact with you, because they're lying to your face (people usually blink @ a speed of 100 - 400 milliseconds or 0.10 to 0.40 of a second).

5. Play close attention to the direction their eyes go towards.
* This is a little trickier to determine in strangers, as you'll need to know whether they are dominantly right handed or left handed.

When you ask a right-handed person a question in reference to something they've supposedly seen, if they look upwards and to the left, they're *truly* accessing their memory files of the incident, however, if they look upwards and to their right, they're accessing their imagination, and creating or inventing an answer for you.

6. Take note of the questions you're asking
If you ask about what someone has heard, their eyes will usually shift toward their left ear when recollecting a sound that they heard before, but if their eyes shift right, they're about to lie.

With kids, you won't need all but one or two of these techniques to figure out who has done what, because as I said, kids are not likely very skilled or proficient liars, even if they lie a lot to their parents (just because a kid "tries" to lie a lot, it doesn't make them good liars).

Lastly, there's a physiological reaction that most people don't know... keep an eye on their hands, because the stress of lying causes a chemical reaction to occur, which makes people's faces itch when they lie.

There are many, many other reactions that I can tell you (I didn't even want to write so many that I did... apologies for the length of this post!).
However, the pp before me NOT considering the innocent victims feelings in all of this (after they've just been assaulted, by either their child or their child's friend) is a pattern that we see quite often in parents of guilty children... and it really, reaallllly pisses me off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Of course you can...however, it's highly unlikely that your kids will ever experience a false accusation.

Throughout my careet, I've had to deal with apologist, enabling mothers like you, who become defensive of their baby's without ever knowing the facts, giving every excuse in the book as to why your child is innocent (usually reverting back to the good old fashioned victim-blaming).

However it is a truly rare day when their child gets falsely accused; because mothers like you usually raise children that there are valid grounds for accusations against.

Oh, and the majority of hotel chains are required to have cameras in the pool area, for insurance purposes -- so, you should be less worried about your sweet, sensitive & misunderstood little Larlo being falsely accused, and more worried about he and/or his friends predatory nature.

I've been an investigator for the past 16 years, and I've sadly become keenly aware of what a liar
or a predators instinctual body language looks like.

It seems as if these boys have barely reached puberty themselves -- so, right away we know that they're not practiced, seasoned liars or predators (they're usually not, but there's always a chance that they are).

A good example that comes to mind is Josh Duggar -- a large reason that he was able to proliferate so out of control and molest for as long as he did (with as many girls as he victimized) was because he has horrible, selfish, enabling, apologist parents, who constantly run defense & covering up for them.

So, chances are good that these boys aren't sitting at home and googling things like "how to beat a lie detector test", "how to avoid the appearance of guilt" or "how to avoid detection" during their free time between soccer practice and dinner, which makes determining which boy did it even easier (if there isn't video proof).

That being said, any parent on here should be able to detect which boy assaulted her with just a few simple questions.... varied facial expressions & affiliated reactions will indicate when someone is lying.

Some of these reactions are caused by nervousness, some are involuntary reactions caused by guilt & shame, some are chemical reactions that can't be hid and others are a blatant physical reaction.

Since these boys are just kids themselves, you won't need the entire checklist, just a few basics should do.

If there is no identifying footage from the hotel for you to review, you start by confronting the group as a whole, stating the facts as your daughter gave them (no yelling or freaking out ifc that can be helped, as a stern, authoritative demeanor is much effective).

There won't be any of this silly & insulting "if she even remembers" like the PP said in her previous post -- as these details are usually etched into a victim's mind after it occurs (and primarily after the first time it occurs).

Many victims of sexual assault atest that there are details that they'll never, ever forget, for as long as they live... for example, the smells (ie; the smell of his skin, his breath, his sweat, what he was wearing when they were assaulted, etc).

If the other 2 or 3 boy are NOT involved, they'll usually look one of two ways... they'll either look totally shocked and/or completely speechless at such an implausible accusation, sometimes they'll stammer from shock too.

If they ARE aware of who did it (but the guilty party is not themselves) is where kids being young and untrained in deception comes in handy for you, because they'll tell you the answer with just a few involuntarily reactions (or they' could potentially volunteer the info to you immediately, it all depends on either how scared/intimidated they are of you, or possibly their moral sensibilities kick in).

It's ALL in the eyes.

1. The most likely way to determine who the guilty party is (if they know who it is) is they'll unintentionally dart their eyes directly towards the guilty party without even realizing they're doing it (now multiply that same reaction by the 2 or 3 other innocent boys) and you'll most likely have your answer.

Sometimes they'll also intentionally dart their eyes towards the guilty party, in the hopes of someone picking up on it without having to rat on their friend in front of them.

2. There will most likely be a physiological reaction in the guilty party, and this occurs when the guilty party feels trapped, cornered or feels they've been detected by your questioning (questions that they do NOT want to answer).
This action reverts back to the cavemen, when people had to seek out actual escape routes in order to survive dangerous or perilous situations (such as facing a deadly animal or even human adversary).

I know it sounds strange to hear that we have instincts today derived from the cavemen, but this reaction is one that stems from millions of years of muscle memory throughout evolutionary history.

3. Be aware of their blinking.
When someone is having a relaxed conversation, they'll ordinarily blink approx 5 or 6 times a minute (or once every 10 - 12 seconds) however when someone is stressed out because they know they've been caught doing something wrong, they'll blink 5 or 6 times in rapid succession.

4.Count how long a person closes their eyes for when being questioned directly (one on one)

When someone closes their eyes for a long second or two, its usually an indication that they're lying or feel guilty.
This is a type of defense mechanism brought on by guilt & shame; and similar to the blinking, they're trying to avoid making direct eye contact with you, because they're lying to your face (people usually blink @ a speed of 100 - 400 milliseconds or 0.10 to 0.40 of a second).

5. Play close attention to the direction their eyes go towards.
* This is a little trickier to determine in strangers, as you'll need to know whether they are dominantly right handed or left handed.

When you ask a right-handed person a question in reference to something they've supposedly seen, if they look upwards and to the left, they're *truly* accessing their memory files of the incident, however, if they look upwards and to their right, they're accessing their imagination, and creating or inventing an answer for you.

6. Take note of the questions you're asking
If you ask about what someone has heard, their eyes will usually shift toward their left ear when recollecting a sound that they heard before, but if their eyes shift right, they're about to lie.

With kids, you won't need all but one or two of these techniques to figure out who has done what, because as I said, kids are not likely very skilled or proficient liars, even if they lie a lot to their parents (just because a kid "tries" to lie a lot, it doesn't make them good liars).

Lastly, there's a physiological reaction that most people don't know... keep an eye on their hands, because the stress of lying causes a chemical reaction to occur, which makes people's faces itch when they lie.

There are many, many other reactions that I can tell you (I didn't even want to write so many that I did... apologies for the length of this post!).
However, the pp before me NOT considering the innocent victims feelings in all of this (after they've just been assaulted, by either their child or their child's friend) is a pattern that we see quite often in parents of guilty children... and it really, reaallllly pisses me off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Of course you can...however, it's highly unlikely that your kids will ever experience a false accusation.

Throughout my careet, I've had to deal with apologist, enabling mothers like you, who become defensive of their baby's without ever knowing the facts, giving every excuse in the book as to why your child is innocent (usually reverting back to the good old fashioned victim-blaming).

However it is a truly rare day when their child gets falsely accused; because mothers like you usually raise children that there are valid grounds for accusations against.

Oh, and the majority of hotel chains are required to have cameras in the pool area, for insurance purposes -- so, you should be less worried about your sweet, sensitive & misunderstood little Larlo being falsely accused, and more worried about he and/or his friends predatory nature.

I've been an investigator for the past 16 years, and I've sadly become keenly aware of what a liar
or a predators instinctual body language looks like.

It seems as if these boys have barely reached puberty themselves -- so, right away we know that they're not practiced, seasoned liars or predators (they're usually not, but there's always a chance that they are).

A good example that comes to mind is Josh Duggar -- a large reason that he was able to proliferate so out of control and molest for as long as he did (with as many girls as he victimized) was because he has horrible, selfish, enabling, apologist parents, who constantly run defense & covering up for them.

So, chances are good that these boys aren't sitting at home and googling things like "how to beat a lie detector test", "how to avoid the appearance of guilt" or "how to avoid detection" during their free time between soccer practice and dinner, which makes determining which boy did it even easier (if there isn't video proof).

That being said, any parent on here should be able to detect which boy assaulted her with just a few simple questions.... varied facial expressions & affiliated reactions will indicate when someone is lying.

Some of these reactions are caused by nervousness, some are involuntary reactions caused by guilt & shame, some are chemical reactions that can't be hid and others are a blatant physical reaction.

Since these boys are just kids themselves, you won't need the entire checklist, just a few basics should do.

If there is no identifying footage from the hotel for you to review, you start by confronting the group as a whole, stating the facts as your daughter gave them (no yelling or freaking out ifc that can be helped, as a stern, authoritative demeanor is much effective).

There won't be any of this silly & insulting "if she even remembers" like the PP said in her previous post -- as these details are usually etched into a victim's mind after it occurs (and primarily after the first time it occurs).

Many victims of sexual assault atest that there are details that they'll never, ever forget, for as long as they live... for example, the smells (ie; the smell of his skin, his breath, his sweat, what he was wearing when they were assaulted, etc).

If the other 2 or 3 boy are NOT involved, they'll usually look one of two ways... they'll either look totally shocked and/or completely speechless at such an implausible accusation, sometimes they'll stammer from shock too.

If they ARE aware of who did it (but the guilty party is not themselves) is where kids being young and untrained in deception comes in handy for you, because they'll tell you the answer with just a few involuntarily reactions (or they' could potentially volunteer the info to you immediately, it all depends on either how scared/intimidated they are of you, or possibly their moral sensibilities kick in).

It's ALL in the eyes.

1. The most likely way to determine who the guilty party is (if they know who it is) is they'll unintentionally dart their eyes directly towards the guilty party without even realizing they're doing it (now multiply that same reaction by the 2 or 3 other innocent boys) and you'll most likely have your answer.

Sometimes they'll also intentionally dart their eyes towards the guilty party, in the hopes of someone picking up on it without having to rat on their friend in front of them.

2. There will most likely be a physiological reaction in the guilty party, and this occurs when the guilty party feels trapped, cornered or feels they've been detected by your questioning (questions that they do NOT want to answer).
This action reverts back to the cavemen, when people had to seek out actual escape routes in order to survive dangerous or perilous situations (such as facing a deadly animal or even human adversary).

I know it sounds strange to hear that we have instincts today derived from the cavemen, but this reaction is one that stems from millions of years of muscle memory throughout evolutionary history.

3. Be aware of their blinking.
When someone is having a relaxed conversation, they'll ordinarily blink approx 5 or 6 times a minute (or once every 10 - 12 seconds) however when someone is stressed out because they know they've been caught doing something wrong, they'll blink 5 or 6 times in rapid succession.

4.Count how long a person closes their eyes for when being questioned directly (one on one)

When someone closes their eyes for a long second or two, its usually an indication that they're lying or feel guilty.
This is a type of defense mechanism brought on by guilt & shame; and similar to the blinking, they're trying to avoid making direct eye contact with you, because they're lying to your face (people usually blink @ a speed of 100 - 400 milliseconds or 0.10 to 0.40 of a second).

5. Play close attention to the direction their eyes go towards.
* This is a little trickier to determine in strangers, as you'll need to know whether they are dominantly right handed or left handed.

When you ask a right-handed person a question in reference to something they've supposedly seen, if they look upwards and to the left, they're *truly* accessing their memory files of the incident, however, if they look upwards and to their right, they're accessing their imagination, and creating or inventing an answer for you.

6. Take note of the questions you're asking
If you ask about what someone has heard, their eyes will usually shift toward their left ear when recollecting a sound that they heard before, but if their eyes shift right, they're about to lie.

With kids, you won't need all but one or two of these techniques to figure out who has done what, because as I said, kids are not likely very skilled or proficient liars, even if they lie a lot to their parents (just because a kid "tries" to lie a lot, it doesn't make them good liars).

Lastly, there's a physiological reaction that most people don't know... keep an eye on their hands, because the stress of lying causes a chemical reaction to occur, which makes people's faces itch when they lie.

There are many, many other reactions that I can tell you (I didn't even want to write so many that I did... apologies for the length of this post!).
However, the pp before me NOT considering the innocent victims feelings in all of this (after they've just been assaulted, by either their child or their child's friend) is a pattern that we see quite often in parents of guilty children... and it really, reaallllly pisses me off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dh would have confronted the boys immediately, regardless of what my dd wanted. I’m not sure how you handle this after the fact. Your dd will probably have some very strong and confusing feelings about the whole thing. She needs to learn that standing up for yourself is empowering and being passive gives the offender all the control. Now she will remember feeling embarrassment and helplessness. It’s far better to remember the way you exerted your own power.

Almost 30 years later, I still beat myself up for not stopping a teacher who used to give lots of us unwanted back rubs. One day he sat down next to me and put his hand on my thigh and left it there. I have long felt that I was complicit in allowing him to do this to other girls. I teach my dds that they don’t have to know the right way to handle a situation like this, because that’s what parents are for. I’ll know how to handle it.

Meant to add that your dd did the right thing by telling your dh. Your dh made the wrong call by agreeing to do nothing. I understand why he complied with her wishes, but this isn’t a “let it go” situation. Your dd needs to know that there are men out there who absolutely will not tolerate that kind of behavior, and Dad needs to be at the top of that list.

Anonymous wrote:It wasn't appropriate, but neither is raising a child to get hysterical over every slight. Sometimes, better to save ones energy for more worthwhile endeavors than exacting justice on a 13 yr old who pinched a butt in a pool.