Anonymous
12/22/2021 14:23
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:<<My DC is in business. The difference is night and day between good brand name schools vs mediocre no name schools.
You get excellent initial opportunities into great consulting firms, finance, investment banking etc. that will soon lead to 6 figure income by attending good schools(so called target schools).
If you go to a mediocre no name school, then good luck. You won't even get an interview.
Main purpose of this forum should be for good information, not for a feelgood Disney World fantasy.>>
But you are aware of one path. Some people want to be scientists, or social workers or artists or engineers or doctors.
Many fields are not as status driven and superficial as business. They care about other, deeper things.
That is not Disney World. Disney World is fake and built for appearances. Much more like the business world than any career path that I would hope my child aspires to.
Many majors in college are actually worthless and superficial only accumulating huge debt.
This is one of the huge problems in the US, maybe because a lot of people still listen to feelgood fairy tales like yours.
One exepction these days is computer science/engineeing. The deman dis so high so if you major in computer science/engineering at pretty much any school maybe under T100 and get good grades, you might find a good career. I gave business as an example, but you would be delusional if it's different for other majors/fields.
'Other deeper things' yea right.
Engineers make about twice as much as a typical college graduate on average up to mid-career. Because of this schools with a higher percentage of engineers (e.g. Georgia Tech) may have higher average salaries than a comparable school with a lower percentage of engineers (e.g. UVA), but this is mostly because of the choice of major, not of school. When comparing schools, you should compare if possible outcomes by major rather than overall salary outcomes. If you go to MIT and major in gender studies (not even sure that is a thing at MIT), you shouldn't expect the same outcomes and opportunities as the computer engineering graduates.
Anonymous
12/22/2021 14:16
Subject: Re:My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:Major/program is much more important than the school itself.
So you have to always look at the School/Major combination.
Business(McIntire) at UVA is much more elite than gender study at Yale or Harvard.
Computer Science at Carnegie Melon is much much more elite than physcholgy at Northweatern or U Chigago or any other top 10 school.
You have to look at the College/Major combination to see if it's truly elite, and furthermore what they are doing right after college.
My friend graduated from Yale art with ton of debt. He has been practically jobless for years and years, and barely got a job as an art teacher at a high school.
So much for eliteness. There are endless cases like this.
It's almost shocking that people here extensively talk about colleges, but not much on the majors and programs itself.
There's higher chance that a CS major at GMU would turn out more elite than a psychology major at UVA.
I think the word "elite" is being used incorrectly above. The posters are really referring to expected earnings by major rather than elite.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 22:21
Subject: Re:My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:My Ivy degree helped me tremendously after having kids. I took a few years out to focus on being a mother. After five years out of the competitive workforce, my Ivy connections opened doors to networking opportunities and first interviews. I don’t think I would have been able to resume a policy job without it.
Ivy connections can help when overseas too.
Because your Ivy League school is the only university that has an alumni network.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 19:46
Subject: Re:My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
My Ivy degree helped me tremendously after having kids. I took a few years out to focus on being a mother. After five years out of the competitive workforce, my Ivy connections opened doors to networking opportunities and first interviews. I don’t think I would have been able to resume a policy job without it.
Ivy connections can help when overseas too.
Ivy connections can help when overseas too.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 17:58
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:<<My DC is in business. The difference is night and day between good brand name schools vs mediocre no name schools.
You get excellent initial opportunities into great consulting firms, finance, investment banking etc. that will soon lead to 6 figure income by attending good schools(so called target schools).
If you go to a mediocre no name school, then good luck. You won't even get an interview.
Main purpose of this forum should be for good information, not for a feelgood Disney World fantasy.>>
But you are aware of one path. Some people want to be scientists, or social workers or artists or engineers or doctors.
Many fields are not as status driven and superficial as business. They care about other, deeper things.
That is not Disney World. Disney World is fake and built for appearances. Much more like the business world than any career path that I would hope my child aspires to.
Many majors in college are actually worthless and superficial only accumulating huge debt.
This is one of the huge problems in the US, maybe because a lot of people still listen to feelgood fairy tales like yours.
One exepction these days is computer science/engineeing. The deman dis so high so if you major in computer science/engineering at pretty much any school maybe under T100 and get good grades, you might find a good career. I gave business as an example, but you would be delusional if it's different for other majors/fields.
'Other deeper things' yea right.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 16:07
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Have you heard the tale of the great old Italian Grim Reaper? The one who feasts on the souls of squid-like children of the academic elite?
Anonymous
12/21/2021 15:54
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
<<My DC is in business. The difference is night and day between good brand name schools vs mediocre no name schools.
You get excellent initial opportunities into great consulting firms, finance, investment banking etc. that will soon lead to 6 figure income by attending good schools(so called target schools).
If you go to a mediocre no name school, then good luck. You won't even get an interview.
Main purpose of this forum should be for good information, not for a feelgood Disney World fantasy.>>
But you are aware of one path. Some people want to be scientists, or social workers or artists or engineers or doctors.
Many fields are not as status driven and superficial as business. They care about other, deeper things.
That is not Disney World. Disney World is fake and built for appearances. Much more like the business world than any career path that I would hope my child aspires to.
You get excellent initial opportunities into great consulting firms, finance, investment banking etc. that will soon lead to 6 figure income by attending good schools(so called target schools).
If you go to a mediocre no name school, then good luck. You won't even get an interview.
Main purpose of this forum should be for good information, not for a feelgood Disney World fantasy.>>
But you are aware of one path. Some people want to be scientists, or social workers or artists or engineers or doctors.
Many fields are not as status driven and superficial as business. They care about other, deeper things.
That is not Disney World. Disney World is fake and built for appearances. Much more like the business world than any career path that I would hope my child aspires to.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 15:52
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My brother went to Princeton and it opened so many doors for him. That alumni network is SOLID. He makes more than 1 mil per year (that's his base pay - he also gets a bonus). The rest of us went to Virginia state schools and we are not even CLOSE to him in salary or success. He's no smarter nor more hard working than any of his siblings - he just made a very good decision to go to Princeton and take out student loans (which are long since paid off).
Plenty of people making your brother's salary did not attend elite colleges, including my brothers.
Yea I’m sure there’s no correlation between graduating from an elite college and lifetime earning potential.
Actually, there's not any correlation that's attributable to the college. The difference is in qualities associated with the individual. This was shown to be true long ago. Here's a link.....
https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322
In a way, but it's more like for the initial opportunieis. You get more quality initial opportunities graduating from elite college.
But you are aware of one path. Some people want to be scientists, or social workers or artists or engineers or doctors.
Many fields are not as status driven and superficial as business. They care about other, deeper things.
That is not Disney World. Disney World is fake and built for appearances. Much more like the business world than any career path that I would hope my child aspires to.
It's as if you don't realize that every college had lots of students graduating into amazing "initial opportunities."
My DC is in business. The difference is night and day between good brand name schools vs mediocre no name schools.
You get excellent initial opportunities into great consulting firms, finance, investment banking etc. that will soon lead to 6 figure income by attending good schools(so called target schools).
If you go to a mediocre no name school, then good luck. You won't even get an interview.
Main purpose of this forum should be for good information, not for a feelgood Disney World fantasy.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 15:48
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My brother went to Princeton and it opened so many doors for him. That alumni network is SOLID. He makes more than 1 mil per year (that's his base pay - he also gets a bonus). The rest of us went to Virginia state schools and we are not even CLOSE to him in salary or success. He's no smarter nor more hard working than any of his siblings - he just made a very good decision to go to Princeton and take out student loans (which are long since paid off).
Plenty of people making your brother's salary did not attend elite colleges, including my brothers.
Yea I’m sure there’s no correlation between graduating from an elite college and lifetime earning potential.
Actually, there's not any correlation that's attributable to the college. The difference is in qualities associated with the individual. This was shown to be true long ago. Here's a link.....
https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322
In a way, but it's more like for the initial opportunieis. You get more quality initial opportunities graduating from elite college.
It's as if you don't realize that every college had lots of students graduating into amazing "initial opportunities."
My DC is in business. The difference is night and day between good brand name schools vs mediocre no name schools.
You get excellent initial opportunities into great consulting firms, finance, investment banking etc. that will soon lead to 6 figure income by attending good schools(so called target schools).
If you go to a mediocre no name school, then good luck. You won't even get an interview.
Main purpose of this forum should be for good information, not for a feelgood Disney World fantasy.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 13:28
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My brother went to Princeton and it opened so many doors for him. That alumni network is SOLID. He makes more than 1 mil per year (that's his base pay - he also gets a bonus). The rest of us went to Virginia state schools and we are not even CLOSE to him in salary or success. He's no smarter nor more hard working than any of his siblings - he just made a very good decision to go to Princeton and take out student loans (which are long since paid off).
Plenty of people making your brother's salary did not attend elite colleges, including my brothers.
Yea I’m sure there’s no correlation between graduating from an elite college and lifetime earning potential.
Actually, there's not any correlation that's attributable to the college. The difference is in qualities associated with the individual. This was shown to be true long ago. Here's a link.....
https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322
In a way, but it's more like for the initial opportunieis. You get more quality initial opportunities graduating from elite college.
It's as if you don't realize that every college had lots of students graduating into amazing "initial opportunities."
If they major in the fields that are acturally in demand and valued in the socienty like nurshing, engineeing, computer science, then they would have opportunies.
In fact your major is shitty, then you would probaly have hard time finding good job and career even if your shcool name is pretty good.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 13:10
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My brother went to Princeton and it opened so many doors for him. That alumni network is SOLID. He makes more than 1 mil per year (that's his base pay - he also gets a bonus). The rest of us went to Virginia state schools and we are not even CLOSE to him in salary or success. He's no smarter nor more hard working than any of his siblings - he just made a very good decision to go to Princeton and take out student loans (which are long since paid off).
Plenty of people making your brother's salary did not attend elite colleges, including my brothers.
Yea I’m sure there’s no correlation between graduating from an elite college and lifetime earning potential.
Actually, there's not any correlation that's attributable to the college. The difference is in qualities associated with the individual. This was shown to be true long ago. Here's a link.....
https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322
In a way, but it's more like for the initial opportunieis. You get more quality initial opportunities graduating from elite college.
It's as if you don't realize that every college had lots of students graduating into amazing "initial opportunities."
Anonymous
12/21/2021 10:48
Subject: Re:My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:Major/program is much more important than the school itself.
So you have to always look at the School/Major combination.
Business(McIntire) at UVA is much more elite than gender study at Yale or Harvard.
Computer Science at Carnegie Melon is much much more elite than physcholgy at Northweatern or U Chigago or any other top 10 school.
You have to look at the College/Major combination to see if it's truly elite, and furthermore what they are doing right after college.
My friend graduated from Yale art with ton of debt. He has been practically jobless for years and years, and barely got a job as an art teacher at a high school.
So much for eliteness. There are endless cases like this.
It's almost shocking that people here extensively talk about colleges, but not much on the majors and programs itself.
There's higher chance that a CS major at GMU would turn out more elite than a psychology major at UVA.
This is especially true for graduate school, wouldn't you say?
Anonymous
12/21/2021 10:37
Subject: Re:My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Major/program is much more important than the school itself.
So you have to always look at the School/Major combination.
Business(McIntire) at UVA is much more elite than gender study at Yale or Harvard.
Computer Science at Carnegie Melon is much much more elite than physcholgy at Northweatern or U Chigago or any other top 10 school.
You have to look at the College/Major combination to see if it's truly elite, and furthermore what they are doing right after college.
My friend graduated from Yale art with ton of debt. He has been practically jobless for years and years, and barely got a job as an art teacher at a high school.
So much for eliteness. There are endless cases like this.
It's almost shocking that people here extensively talk about colleges, but not much on the majors and programs itself.
There's higher chance that a CS major at GMU would turn out more elite than a psychology major at UVA.
So you have to always look at the School/Major combination.
Business(McIntire) at UVA is much more elite than gender study at Yale or Harvard.
Computer Science at Carnegie Melon is much much more elite than physcholgy at Northweatern or U Chigago or any other top 10 school.
You have to look at the College/Major combination to see if it's truly elite, and furthermore what they are doing right after college.
My friend graduated from Yale art with ton of debt. He has been practically jobless for years and years, and barely got a job as an art teacher at a high school.
So much for eliteness. There are endless cases like this.
It's almost shocking that people here extensively talk about colleges, but not much on the majors and programs itself.
There's higher chance that a CS major at GMU would turn out more elite than a psychology major at UVA.
Anonymous
12/21/2021 09:35
Subject: Re:My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
The answer to this is 25% "fact" and 75% fuzzy, but here it goes:
- In certain industries like venture capital, it is amazing in this day and age that the Ivy leagues and Stanford so thoroughly dominate the number of people in the industry...and to be even more niche, Stanford and Harvard dominate within that subset...so if your kid somehow knows they want to work in VC, then hard to argue that it does not matter;
- Having graduated from an Ivy and worked in Ibanking in NYC (and this 25 years ago), yes there are lots of Ivy league kids and they all recruit there, but there were also lots of kids that went to schools with top undergraduate business programs like UVA, Wash U, etc., as well as kids that went to a range of other schools but tended to have Math/CS/Engineering backgrounds. My understanding is that recruiting in this industry has become even more egalitarian because Wall Street / Finance has lost its allure these days;
- I now work with a ton of technology companies and anecdotally it is hard to discern what advantage top schools may confer with respect to technical positions...there are many large state schools with top STEM programs that send kids to high paying jobs in Tech (little known fact...the #1 supplier of STEM grads to Google/Microsoft/Apple, etc. is actually University of Waterloo in Canada);
- There are lots of people working in Tech in top jobs that dropped out of college or skipped college entirely...I do know that if you can prove you know what you are doing, then a college degree is not required. These are people with skills that know what they are doing...the Hackers so to speak;
- The really big intangible is the network of kids you meet at college and become friendly and then help you in life...you are more likely to become friends with the child of a billionaire or Hundred Millionaire at an Ivy League or Stanford or MIT then most other schools or if you are starting a company, I guarantee it is easier to get that initial VC meeting if you graduated from the "chosen" schools;
- You can also gain many of these advantages through an MBA at these top schools, so just keep that in mind in the grand scheme of things;
- I don't really know, but I suspect that if you have a kid that you know wants to go to Medical School, then not sure what an Ivy really does for you...it may make life a ton worse as I remember that you needed like a 97% to get an A in Organic Chemistry because the curve was so insane with all the Pre-Med, Engineering, STEM kids taking the class. Of course, your kid may decide 1/2 way through that they don't want to go to Med School and then see above;
- At the end of the day, what you study at school and then what you decide as a career will determine much of the trajectory...I know many people that graduated that chose paths in acadamia, non-profits, government or were just lost. There are no "special" high paying jobs in these fields reserved for Ivy league grads.
My $.02 for anyone that cares.
- In certain industries like venture capital, it is amazing in this day and age that the Ivy leagues and Stanford so thoroughly dominate the number of people in the industry...and to be even more niche, Stanford and Harvard dominate within that subset...so if your kid somehow knows they want to work in VC, then hard to argue that it does not matter;
- Having graduated from an Ivy and worked in Ibanking in NYC (and this 25 years ago), yes there are lots of Ivy league kids and they all recruit there, but there were also lots of kids that went to schools with top undergraduate business programs like UVA, Wash U, etc., as well as kids that went to a range of other schools but tended to have Math/CS/Engineering backgrounds. My understanding is that recruiting in this industry has become even more egalitarian because Wall Street / Finance has lost its allure these days;
- I now work with a ton of technology companies and anecdotally it is hard to discern what advantage top schools may confer with respect to technical positions...there are many large state schools with top STEM programs that send kids to high paying jobs in Tech (little known fact...the #1 supplier of STEM grads to Google/Microsoft/Apple, etc. is actually University of Waterloo in Canada);
- There are lots of people working in Tech in top jobs that dropped out of college or skipped college entirely...I do know that if you can prove you know what you are doing, then a college degree is not required. These are people with skills that know what they are doing...the Hackers so to speak;
- The really big intangible is the network of kids you meet at college and become friendly and then help you in life...you are more likely to become friends with the child of a billionaire or Hundred Millionaire at an Ivy League or Stanford or MIT then most other schools or if you are starting a company, I guarantee it is easier to get that initial VC meeting if you graduated from the "chosen" schools;
- You can also gain many of these advantages through an MBA at these top schools, so just keep that in mind in the grand scheme of things;
- I don't really know, but I suspect that if you have a kid that you know wants to go to Medical School, then not sure what an Ivy really does for you...it may make life a ton worse as I remember that you needed like a 97% to get an A in Organic Chemistry because the curve was so insane with all the Pre-Med, Engineering, STEM kids taking the class. Of course, your kid may decide 1/2 way through that they don't want to go to Med School and then see above;
- At the end of the day, what you study at school and then what you decide as a career will determine much of the trajectory...I know many people that graduated that chose paths in acadamia, non-profits, government or were just lost. There are no "special" high paying jobs in these fields reserved for Ivy league grads.
My $.02 for anyone that cares.
Anonymous
12/19/2021 16:06
Subject: My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My brother went to Princeton and it opened so many doors for him. That alumni network is SOLID. He makes more than 1 mil per year (that's his base pay - he also gets a bonus). The rest of us went to Virginia state schools and we are not even CLOSE to him in salary or success. He's no smarter nor more hard working than any of his siblings - he just made a very good decision to go to Princeton and take out student loans (which are long since paid off).
Plenty of people making your brother's salary did not attend elite colleges, including my brothers.
Yea I’m sure there’s no correlation between graduating from an elite college and lifetime earning potential.
Actually, there's not any correlation that's attributable to the college. The difference is in qualities associated with the individual. This was shown to be true long ago. Here's a link.....
https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322
In a way, but it's more like for the initial opportunieis. You get more quality initial opportunities graduating from elite college.