Anonymous
05/17/2024 11:41
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's just too much bad. Sex abuse of kids, the mother and baby homes in Ireland, the residential schools in Canada. So, so much abuse and death, most of the victims being children. Completely insufficient efforts to rectify the horrors visited on people.
First of all, alleged “sex abuse of kids” is hardly unique to the Catholic Church, which is and long has been in the forefront of efforts to combat such actions, even as abuse continues (and continues to be covered up) in other denominations, and in public facilities and anywhere else adults have power over others.
The other “abuse and death” allegations likewise are not unique to Catholicism. Many, many people who might have ended up far worse off than they did benefitted greatly from the care they received in Catholic facilities. But their stories don’t make money for trial lawyers or gain political traction for forces that want to silence the Church because they feel guilty doing things they know are wrong and project that onto the Church to try and feel better.
The Catholic Church is over 2,000 years old. It has billions of adherents. It is probably the leading charitable force in the world. Its history of heroic self-sacrifice by people dedicating their lives to others is unparalleled.
It's fine you believe that, but the poster asked why I have no interest. I see 2000 years of crusades, massacres of natives, oppression of women, corruption and greed.
A terribly narrow perspective that would encompass vast swaths of society throughout history well beyond the Catholic Church.
And one that seems a post-hoc explanation backed into from the preexisting conclusion that the Church is all bad, most likely because it doesn’t endorse certain behaviors.
Anonymous
05/17/2024 11:37
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's just too much bad. Sex abuse of kids, the mother and baby homes in Ireland, the residential schools in Canada. So, so much abuse and death, most of the victims being children. Completely insufficient efforts to rectify the horrors visited on people.
First of all, alleged “sex abuse of kids” is hardly unique to the Catholic Church, which is and long has been in the forefront of efforts to combat such actions, even as abuse continues (and continues to be covered up) in other denominations, and in public facilities and anywhere else adults have power over others.
The other “abuse and death” allegations likewise are not unique to Catholicism. Many, many people who might have ended up far worse off than they did benefitted greatly from the care they received in Catholic facilities. But their stories don’t make money for trial lawyers or gain political traction for forces that want to silence the Church because they feel guilty doing things they know are wrong and project that onto the Church to try and feel better.
The Catholic Church is over 2,000 years old. It has billions of adherents. It is probably the leading charitable force in the world. Its history of heroic self-sacrifice by people dedicating their lives to others is unparalleled.
It's fine you believe that, but the poster asked why I have no interest. I see 2000 years of crusades, massacres of natives, oppression of women, corruption and greed.
Anonymous
05/17/2024 10:58
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
Anonymous wrote:Why should I be part of an organization that I'm not eligible to lead based on my gender?
Because “leadership” takes many forms, and within Catholicism most frequently takes the form of self-sacrifice and humility. There are and have been many female leaders in the Church, including Catherine of Sienna, who essentially told the Popes what to do and they did it. The most honored woman in history in Mary, the mother of Jesus.
Confusing “leadership” with administrative power is a common error. Many “leaders” in many denominations (not just Catholicism) are and historically have been anything but true “leaders” in the Christian sense of the word.
Catholicism teaches that the hierarchical administrative structure of the Church is divine in origin; likewise the male priesthood. Neither can be changed. But not all administrative positions require clerical status, and the present Pope has been quite active in finding ways to integrate a feminine perspective into Church administration.
Anonymous
05/17/2024 10:47
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
Why should I be part of an organization that I'm not eligible to lead based on my gender?
Anonymous
05/17/2024 10:44
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
Anonymous wrote:There's just too much bad. Sex abuse of kids, the mother and baby homes in Ireland, the residential schools in Canada. So, so much abuse and death, most of the victims being children. Completely insufficient efforts to rectify the horrors visited on people.
First of all, alleged “sex abuse of kids” is hardly unique to the Catholic Church, which is and long has been in the forefront of efforts to combat such actions, even as abuse continues (and continues to be covered up) in other denominations, and in public facilities and anywhere else adults have power over others.
The other “abuse and death” allegations likewise are not unique to Catholicism. Many, many people who might have ended up far worse off than they did benefitted greatly from the care they received in Catholic facilities. But their stories don’t make money for trial lawyers or gain political traction for forces that want to silence the Church because they feel guilty doing things they know are wrong and project that onto the Church to try and feel better.
The Catholic Church is over 2,000 years old. It has billions of adherents. It is probably the leading charitable force in the world. Its history of heroic self-sacrifice by people dedicating their lives to others is unparalleled.
Anonymous
05/17/2024 10:34
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think going to Catholic school is a large part of why my Dad's not just lapsed, but actively hates the church. He said the nuns regularly hit them.
How old is your father? The public school kids around me were still regularly getting whaled on with a wooden paddle long after the local nuns put away their flyswatters.
What people who “hate the Church” usually actually hate is the guilt and shame they feel from something they do or have done that they know is wrong but want to continue instead of seeking forgiveness and a change of life. There are people who received a very distorted guilt and shame based religious formation (and not just in the Catholic Church) that left them wounded and without any understanding of divine mercy.
Well, people like you certainly won't bring my Dad back to the church given your reaction to "The nuns beat my Dad" is "he must have done something wronf." Just, wow.
Of course my post said nothing of the kind.
I asked how old he was, because, quite frankly, corporal punishment was not unique to Catholic schools, and vanished from them long ago. But it makes a great excuse for not going to Church when a person would rather not address something else. Which was my second point.
I know people who say they quit going to Mass because the Church got rid of Latin, but who were not born until well after the Vatican II Mass changes. They repeat an excuse their older relatives made rather than looking at what’s really going on.
Anonymous
05/17/2024 08:59
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
There's just too much bad. Sex abuse of kids, the mother and baby homes in Ireland, the residential schools in Canada. So, so much abuse and death, most of the victims being children. Completely insufficient efforts to rectify the horrors visited on people.
Anonymous
05/17/2024 08:46
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
My parents made me go to church and catechism. I would never say that they are the reason I left, because they were really good role models of how people should be in terms of religion, and so were my grandparents. I just always questioned everything even as a little kid, from how "good" religious people were to specific biblical questions, so I was not meant to just stay and believe in it all. I have no personal beef or bitterness about my experience at all, and I will always be curious about religions generally even though I don't have faith in the traditional sense.
Anonymous
05/17/2024 08:45
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think going to Catholic school is a large part of why my Dad's not just lapsed, but actively hates the church. He said the nuns regularly hit them.
How old is your father? The public school kids around me were still regularly getting whaled on with a wooden paddle long after the local nuns put away their flyswatters.
What people who “hate the Church” usually actually hate is the guilt and shame they feel from something they do or have done that they know is wrong but want to continue instead of seeking forgiveness and a change of life. There are people who received a very distorted guilt and shame based religious formation (and not just in the Catholic Church) that left them wounded and without any understanding of divine mercy.
Well, people like you certainly won't bring my Dad back to the church given your reaction to "The nuns beat my Dad" is "he must have done something wronf." Just, wow.
Anonymous
05/17/2024 08:36
Subject: Lapsed Catholics
Anonymous wrote:I think going to Catholic school is a large part of why my Dad's not just lapsed, but actively hates the church. He said the nuns regularly hit them.
How old is your father? The public school kids around me were still regularly getting whaled on with a wooden paddle long after the local nuns put away their flyswatters.
What people who “hate the Church” usually actually hate is the guilt and shame they feel from something they do or have done that they know is wrong but want to continue instead of seeking forgiveness and a change of life. There are people who received a very distorted guilt and shame based religious formation (and not just in the Catholic Church) that left them wounded and without any understanding of divine mercy.