Anonymous wrote:The world has changed.

Tom Friedman's great book The World is Flat makes the point that the world got smaller and that now as opposed to say the 1950s through the 1980s you compete with jobs not with the best people in your city or region or the country but the entire world.

The way the world has been shaped changed economies and it changes the winners, losers, and how you navigate the world.

The way we are set up now, a person, even UMC, has to make the right decision almost all the time from the time they are 10 until they are substantially older. Our system used to make allowances for people who bloomed later in life. That window has narrowed substantially.

So what does that mean -- as a kid you need to take the right classes, get the right grades, do the right activities, go to the right college, take the right major, do that with no debt, get a good first job and have it go quite well.

If you fail at any point on the road you are part of a different economy and a different world. And to be clear, the failure may not even be on your part -- you may not know you are making the wrong choice --- if you are not MC or UMC you may not know, also bad luck can kill here as well and you certainly have no control over that. You may not have the resources to do it.

Rather than keep arguing we should address some of these issues. It will take money; which could mean more taxes. But for example, we need to improve education in this country but especially in areas where we have poverty and stubborn poverty. People say that but we really need to take action on a Federal level. I would argue this is a national security issue.

We need to help people have the right information to try to make the right choices. We need to do something about student debt both going forward and in the past. This has hampered too many people.

We need to have programs to help people who learn later in life that they need education or a trade -- help the people that have fallen behind.

We owe this to society.

Anonymous wrote:and here OP is taking time out of their day (which is a privilege) typing on their computer (a privilege), accessing high speed internet (a privilege) most likely in their warm, comfortable, safe home (a privilege).

We are ALL privileged, some more than others, but for the love of god, your keyboard warrior mentality is sad.

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone getting focussed on the taxing the rich to death bit...which I disagree with, but no one addressing the out of touch piece. DCUM folks are willfully out of touch about how the rest of society lives. And they fail to recognize that hard work in and of itself does not translate into making loads of money. Nor does it mean that you are smarter than people making less money than you do. Lots of brilliant physicians, scientists, professors making a whole lot less than Big Law and overpaid government contractors. Just acknowledge **that**. You picked a profitable career but it does not make you more hard working/smarter than others. I think some people just need to justify the obscene amount of money they make.

Agreed. DCUM is purposefully missing the point, which is on trend.

I also think that the OP is narrowly focused on the DCUM folks which appear to have inherited wealth. It's those folks that are grossly out of touch and privileged. Think the Ivanka Trumps of the world who've never had to work, struggle or really understand what it means to make a buck. If you haven't ever struggled financially, empathy is usually wanting. Self awareness, too.

+1 ITA..

for those of us who came from nothing, like immigrants with no education and not able to speak English, we know we are lucky and privileged, but most of us also did earn it. We worked hard, sacrified a lot, and lived really frugally. That's not to say that everyone who does this will make it, but the majority of those who grew up poorer but made it did so by living this way. Of course there is some luck involved like timing or not falling seriously ill, but there is also a lot of hard work and sacrifices that went into getting to where we are.

Don't be dissmissive of that, either.

this has been the story of the US from its founding. People escape the poverty and oppression of their origin, come here, and in 1 or 2 or 3 generations become successful beyond whatever they might achieve in their homelands. That might mean being a cop or a firefighter, or starting a company and becoming incredibly wealthy. Either way, to live in the US is have a level of freedom, wealth, and security unavailable to most of the rest of world. This what makes America exceptional.

Not disagreeing, but you know this can happen in some other countries as well.

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Anonymous wrote:First generation American here- grew up with a single mom because dad abandoned us and took all the money with him. Tons of student loans. Worked 4 jobs in college and could barely afford shampoo. I’m an obvious minority and a woman and experienced it all. 20 years of hard work later I’m well off.

My absolute biggest privilege was being born in the USA. If you don’t get that, you’re ignorant of the world.

Multiple people have gone off about this but it doesn't change the fact that the truly wealthy are usually a-hats who convince themselves that they deserve to be rich, no one else worked as hard as they do or their immigrant parents did (who came here with $1 and walked to and from their four jobs with no shoes uphill every day). Yes, it is a nice thing to be born in the US compared to *some* other places, but it doesn't mean there aren't many, many people here who are living through great hardship.

Fact is, if you are wealthy, you got lucky in some way. Tons of people work as hard or (likely) harder than you do every day and will never make six figures. Tons of people have immigrant parents who worked four jobs and they are their kids never became wealthy. Tons of people live good, honest lives and will never be wealthy. If you are wealthy, you should be thankful for your good fortune, give back as much as you can, and stop believing you "deserve" this more than others. You don't. These myths about your life you tell yourself are just the way you soothe your (in some of your cases, vanishingly small) conscience.

Anonymous wrote:OP, you're projecting. Stop blaming the hardworking families who gasp... provide jobs for the working class. Get off your high horse and work harder.

Anonymous wrote:I agree that people on here are financially privileged.

But really, so what? Do people with more money than most not have the right to talk about it amongst each other?

There are threads that are obviously meant for high income/high net worth people and threads that aren't. Why are the former not allowed to exist just because you don't relate? Scroll on by.

Not everything has to be inclusive. It reminds me of the conversations going on in the fashion world. Do skinny, rich women not have the right to exist? If you want to have a brand or magazine that is just for skinny women, so what? If diversity is truly what the public wants then they won't sell that many clothes or copies. It's not fair to make them feature a size 16 model if they don't think that represents them.

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Anonymous wrote:" 30s buying million + dollar homes, people who are 40 years old and already 401(k) millionaires, people who have funded their future kids' college education "

That me but I'm self-made. My parents came to the United States as immigrants with $5 in their pocket. I learned hard work from them and started working at very early age and continue to do so today at the age of 41. Nothing was handed to us, no inheritance, no nothing. A lot of folks don't understand what they have here in the United States. It truly is the land of opportunity. A lof of us were not born with a gold spoon and have actually worked really hard for where we are today!

They actually were provided $50 upon entry by the US govt. More significantly, Per visa requirements, your
Parents were also required to have a “sponsor” who likely provided significant help. Please no more “$5 in the pocket”
BS stories.

+1. Very few “legal” immigrants arrive here with just $5. The US govt is a bit
more sophisticated with the legal immigration process. Most have funds back home which
are transferred to the US. The visa sponsor is usually a blood family member AND in solid financial
standing as require to support the immigrants for a number of years (I think 5 years min).

I’m a child of immigrants and this is true. The whole “I came here with $5 in my pocket” story needs to die. It isn’t true. And all immigrants are not held to the same standards.

100%

This days are over. I'm Vietnamese and my parents were boat people. They came here with a cup of rice in their pockets.

We've brought family over here legally and it requires a sponsor, lots of money, and a immigrants who can bring Tru value to the US.

Nobody is legally coming here with five dollars these days.

That can be true with refugees but the government provides them with free money to get them started out so they're not really starting out with 5 dollars either.

My family came as refugees. We were provided 4 months of support and then it was welfare, Pell grants, Medicaid and other things that would normally be available to poor people who were born in US. My parents ended up middle class, the kids, including me, UMC. The grandparents never worked, got SSI, Medicaid and Section 8 apartment, and that’s how they lived ... way better than the home country.

PP. oh, and about sponsorship. We were sponsored by a non-profit that paid for our plane tickets. That was a loan and we had to repay it. Also, I know many families where “sponsorship” was mutually understood as on paper only, I.e. the sponsor did a huge favor by signing the paperwork but the immigrants did not expect or receive any money.

Sounds like immigration fraud. Sounds like they should have their citizenship stripped and deported. Sounds like the sponsors need to go to prison.

Anonymous wrote:Just dropping in here to say that this forum makes me want to vomit. Especially here.

All this talk of people in their 30s buying million + dollar homes, people who are 40 years old and already 401(k) millionaires, people who have funded their future kids' college education while talking down to those who struggle to pay back their student loans only hoping for a break someday, people here bemoaning the budget constraints of a HHI of "only" $200K, people with investment properties, people with investments, period. Do you not understand that the average American cannot withstand a $500 emergency? That there is an eviction crisis in this country? That medical debt makes people wonder if their life-saving medical treatments are even worth the "life" they get to live afterwards? How one economic downturn can render a hardworking family penniless and homeless? That the AVERAGE household income yes IN THE DC AREA is far, FAR below the individual salaries thrown about in these discussions and that yes, AVERAGE and, gasp, below average HHI families need a place to live too? Two hour commutes each way be damned, "go move somewhere you can afford!"

I completely understand why people made guillotine memes in response to the proposed $600 stimulus checks this winter. And guess what, $1400 is not enough either. I hope all of you out of touch privileged people are taxed so hard your eyes bleed. You people are the swamp everybody else loves to hate. We need to tax the rich into oblivion and collectivize their assets, I swear to god. Don't EVER try to justify your cushy job as having "Earned" your right to complain about property taxes on your second investment property when this country operates like the Third World when trying to meet other people's basic needs.

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone getting focussed on the taxing the rich to death bit...which I disagree with, but no one addressing the out of touch piece. DCUM folks are willfully out of touch about how the rest of society lives. And they fail to recognize that hard work in and of itself does not translate into making loads of money. Nor does it mean that you are smarter than people making less money than you do. Lots of brilliant physicians, scientists, professors making a whole lot less than Big Law and overpaid government contractors. Just acknowledge **that**. You picked a profitable career but it does not make you more hard working/smarter than others. I think some people just need to justify the obscene amount of money they make.

Agreed. DCUM is purposefully missing the point, which is on trend.

I also think that the OP is narrowly focused on the DCUM folks which appear to have inherited wealth. It's those folks that are grossly out of touch and privileged. Think the Ivanka Trumps of the world who've never had to work, struggle or really understand what it means to make a buck. If you haven't ever struggled financially, empathy is usually wanting. Self awareness, too.

+1 ITA..

for those of us who came from nothing, like immigrants with no education and not able to speak English, we know we are lucky and privileged, but most of us also did earn it. We worked hard, sacrified a lot, and lived really frugally. That's not to say that everyone who does this will make it, but the majority of those who grew up poorer but made it did so by living this way. Of course there is some luck involved like timing or not falling seriously ill, but there is also a lot of hard work and sacrifices that went into getting to where we are.

Don't be dissmissive of that, either.

this has been the story of the US from its founding. People escape the poverty and oppression of their origin, come here, and in 1 or 2 or 3 generations become successful beyond whatever they might achieve in their homelands. That might mean being a cop or a firefighter, or starting a company and becoming incredibly wealthy. Either way, to live in the US is have a level of freedom, wealth, and security unavailable to most of the rest of world. This what makes America exceptional.