Anonymous
10/18/2020 15:36
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If my DH asked me to clean the bathroom and then walked me in afterwards pointing out where I missed spots, I would hand him the paper towels, say “have fun!” and never do it again. Who would talk to an adult like this?
+1
I was just get ready to post exactly this. Send him back to store because he didn’t get exactly the right thing? WTF
How’d you like to live with someone who half @$$es everything? Washes the dishes but leaves dirty ones on the table and counter because, you know, didn’t see them. Agreed to take the garbage out but, you know, just waiting for the next day and the next. Said he’s clean his basement toilet as the kids keep playing there but hey, sprayed some Lysol but who cares about all the pubes and pee drips? Said he’d finally paint the one bedroom but hey, who cares about drips all on the carpet, edging and ceiling, he did it! Said he’d take care of the kids in the morning when you work until 11pm but hey, they didn’t want to brush their teeth, eat their breakfast or get dressed.
Would you 24/7 fix and redo his messes? He’s already doing only 2-3% of what needs to get done weekly. Tell him to fix them himself? Or kick him to the curb?
Anonymous
10/18/2020 14:12
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:All the people saying they would never send a spouse back to the store are missing the point. We are not talking about getting 1% instead of 2% milk. We are talking about men who would go to the store to shop for the whole family and forget 50% of the items needed for anyone other than him. So no milk for the kids, no bread for sandwiches, no lettuce for wife’s daily salad, but lots of his favorite kind of pretzels and plenty of beer. If you said you would do the weekly grocery shopping and you don’t get some version of the staples required for the family to function for a week, then you have not successfully done the weekly grocery shopping. Because someone else is going to have to redo the chore and get the needed food.
Likewise with bathrooms we are not talking about “they cleaned everything but there’s water-spots on the shower door!” We are talking about “he wiped down the tub, toilet seat and counter with the same wet rag, in that order, with no actual cleaners involved.” There is in fact a baseline of acceptable cleanliness where you should be sanitizing high-touch surfaces with some sort of cleaning supply and scrubbing the sh!t-stains from inside the toilet bowl. If you don’t do that, then someone else will need to clean the tub properly so that the kids can safely take baths in a clean tub, and sanitize the counters and handles so that people can wash their hands and end up with clean hands.
These threads always go this way. Somehow it’s always the wife who needs to relax her standards and stop being a perfectionist. People ignore that there is an objective reality of what constitutes getting something done or not.
Also we have little kids so while he’s at the store or redoing the bathroom (or I’m doing the same) the other one is tending to the kids. So it’s not like I can just make it his problem or let him experience the “natural consequences “. Our lives are interlinked and DH doing a bad job makes my life harder, no matter how you slice it.
Not all husbands are just dying for sex and willing to do anything to get it either, like a PP suggests.
Anonymous
10/18/2020 14:10
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:All the people saying they would never send a spouse back to the store are missing the point. We are not talking about getting 1% instead of 2% milk. We are talking about men who would go to the store to shop for the whole family and forget 50% of the items needed for anyone other than him. So no milk for the kids, no bread for sandwiches, no lettuce for wife’s daily salad, but lots of his favorite kind of pretzels and plenty of beer. If you said you would do the weekly grocery shopping and you don’t get some version of the staples required for the family to function for a week, then you have not successfully done the weekly grocery shopping. Because someone else is going to have to redo the chore and get the needed food.
Likewise with bathrooms we are not talking about “they cleaned everything but there’s water-spots on the shower door!” We are talking about “he wiped down the tub, toilet seat and counter with the same wet rag, in that order, with no actual cleaners involved.” There is in fact a baseline of acceptable cleanliness where you should be sanitizing high-touch surfaces with some sort of cleaning supply and scrubbing the sh!t-stains from inside the toilet bowl. If you don’t do that, then someone else will need to clean the tub properly so that the kids can safely take baths in a clean tub, and sanitize the counters and handles so that people can wash their hands and end up with clean hands.
+ 1
ITA. I think people were feeling defensive and so looking for ways to poke holes in the OP and attack what she said. When really, I think the OP is completely rational. I see no problem whatsoever with holding me to higher standards, the same standards that women are held to.
I'm trying to imagine myself "making" my husband go back to the grocery store if he forgot something that we needed that night or the next morning. I can't see it but, then, I ALSO can't see being married to someone who wouldn't volunteer to go back after discovering that they forgot something important. I wouldn't have married someone who could go to the grocery store, not find the things they need, and then not even ask an employee for help but rather just shrug their shoulders and think to themselves that I'll deal with it later. NOPE. Just NO.
Same with doing a half ass job of cleaning. If my husband tells me he is going to clean the bathroom or kitchen or whatever, he does the job 100%. I can't imagine being married to someone not like that.
Some of the stories in here about people's husbands and what they are like...my god. I really can't imagine it. Letting your child sit in a dirty diaper all day? Bringing in a dishwasher technician to try to prove you wrong? NOPE.
Anonymous
10/18/2020 14:04
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
All the people saying they would never send a spouse back to the store are missing the point. We are not talking about getting 1% instead of 2% milk. We are talking about men who would go to the store to shop for the whole family and forget 50% of the items needed for anyone other than him. So no milk for the kids, no bread for sandwiches, no lettuce for wife’s daily salad, but lots of his favorite kind of pretzels and plenty of beer. If you said you would do the weekly grocery shopping and you don’t get some version of the staples required for the family to function for a week, then you have not successfully done the weekly grocery shopping. Because someone else is going to have to redo the chore and get the needed food.
Likewise with bathrooms we are not talking about “they cleaned everything but there’s water-spots on the shower door!” We are talking about “he wiped down the tub, toilet seat and counter with the same wet rag, in that order, with no actual cleaners involved.” There is in fact a baseline of acceptable cleanliness where you should be sanitizing high-touch surfaces with some sort of cleaning supply and scrubbing the sh!t-stains from inside the toilet bowl. If you don’t do that, then someone else will need to clean the tub properly so that the kids can safely take baths in a clean tub, and sanitize the counters and handles so that people can wash their hands and end up with clean hands.
Likewise with bathrooms we are not talking about “they cleaned everything but there’s water-spots on the shower door!” We are talking about “he wiped down the tub, toilet seat and counter with the same wet rag, in that order, with no actual cleaners involved.” There is in fact a baseline of acceptable cleanliness where you should be sanitizing high-touch surfaces with some sort of cleaning supply and scrubbing the sh!t-stains from inside the toilet bowl. If you don’t do that, then someone else will need to clean the tub properly so that the kids can safely take baths in a clean tub, and sanitize the counters and handles so that people can wash their hands and end up with clean hands.
Anonymous
10/18/2020 08:59
Subject: Re:Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
I’ve never sent my husband back to the grocery store. But I know I have said things like “oh you didn’t get x...?” And he would promise to go back later that day or the next to get it. Sometimes I would say that’s not necessary, no rush, or if it was something we did need right away, I would say thank you.
He’s always been super helpful around the house. He is the type of person who notices the trash is full, takes it out, then replaces the bag right away. Same with other basic adult chores like noticing when we need more TP, paper towels, groceries, new clothes for the kids, bigger winter boots, etc. I probably do more of the cleaning but he is an extremely involved parent (I’d say we share the primary parent role) and he is very handy around the house, which I appreciate.
Very early on after having our first baby, I did have to ask him for more help. I was EBF and struggling with the sleep deprivation so we decided together to switch to formula so he could take the first shift. We’d put the baby down at 7, he’d do a dream feed at 10, then I wouldn’t have to get up until 2 or 3.
He’s a guy who has always cared about my well being though. When I was a SAHM to 3 kids under 4, he suggested we hire cleaning help and a part time nanny. I can’t fathom being with most of the men described in here. I think my love language is “acts of service” so I wouldn’t have been attracted to them in a long way.
He’s always been super helpful around the house. He is the type of person who notices the trash is full, takes it out, then replaces the bag right away. Same with other basic adult chores like noticing when we need more TP, paper towels, groceries, new clothes for the kids, bigger winter boots, etc. I probably do more of the cleaning but he is an extremely involved parent (I’d say we share the primary parent role) and he is very handy around the house, which I appreciate.
Very early on after having our first baby, I did have to ask him for more help. I was EBF and struggling with the sleep deprivation so we decided together to switch to formula so he could take the first shift. We’d put the baby down at 7, he’d do a dream feed at 10, then I wouldn’t have to get up until 2 or 3.
He’s a guy who has always cared about my well being though. When I was a SAHM to 3 kids under 4, he suggested we hire cleaning help and a part time nanny. I can’t fathom being with most of the men described in here. I think my love language is “acts of service” so I wouldn’t have been attracted to them in a long way.
Anonymous
10/18/2020 08:25
Subject: Re:Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Oh good. I hadn’t looked at this thread in a while, but I see we have reached its apotheosis. Took a while, but you got there. Congratulations, ladies!
Anonymous
10/18/2020 08:19
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Maybe it is the economist in me but you just need to know two things to see why the above would work for most people:
1. Incentives
2. Supply and Demand
or an even simpler way is to remember the GEICO ad, 15 minutes can save you....
The same applies, 15 minutes, a few times a week, has by far the highest return on investment (time wise).
Give it a try.
1. Incentives
2. Supply and Demand
or an even simpler way is to remember the GEICO ad, 15 minutes can save you....
The same applies, 15 minutes, a few times a week, has by far the highest return on investment (time wise).
Give it a try.
Anonymous
10/18/2020 07:45
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
I do not understand why some people are opposed to train DH.
If you have gone through threads on this forum two common problems emerge again and again
1. Men complain about not getting enough sex
2. Women complain that DH does not help with chores and children
How can anyone not see the connection? It just boggles my mind.
DH and I assume most men care a lot, really really lot about the frequency of sex. That is massively important to him.
I made it clear in words and actions that all the household work, taking care of children tires me out and that is the biggest hindrance to a greater frequency of sex. Making it clear means you need to train DH.
Now DH does, I would guess about 60-70% of all the household chores and taking care of children. In return, we have 3-4x a week of sex. It is something that really works for both of us.
I suspect it would work for a lot of couples as well.
We did not sit and write out a contract with witnesses regarding this. It is sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle indications. It might take a 1-2 years. This is what I mean by train your DH.
If you have gone through threads on this forum two common problems emerge again and again
1. Men complain about not getting enough sex
2. Women complain that DH does not help with chores and children
How can anyone not see the connection? It just boggles my mind.
DH and I assume most men care a lot, really really lot about the frequency of sex. That is massively important to him.
I made it clear in words and actions that all the household work, taking care of children tires me out and that is the biggest hindrance to a greater frequency of sex. Making it clear means you need to train DH.
Now DH does, I would guess about 60-70% of all the household chores and taking care of children. In return, we have 3-4x a week of sex. It is something that really works for both of us.
I suspect it would work for a lot of couples as well.
We did not sit and write out a contract with witnesses regarding this. It is sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle indications. It might take a 1-2 years. This is what I mean by train your DH.
Anonymous
10/17/2020 17:38
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:There are so many things on which DH needed training. It is a long painful process but I think everyone can do it.
DH wanted to vote a certain person. I absolutely abhor that person. DH knew what would happen if he voted that way. We requested mail in ballots and DH showed me he did not vote for that person before mailing the ballot.
DH had a very very fun night that day.
IT IS NOT TOUGH TO TRAIN!
Jesus. You know there was a point in time where men bragged “my wife knows what’ll happen if she votes for a certain person!”
I personally don’t want a relationship where I don’t feel the need to threaten or bribe my spouse to do things. If I wanted to train something, I’d get a dog.
Anonymous
10/17/2020 17:29
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:There are so many things on which DH needed training. It is a long painful process but I think everyone can do it.
DH wanted to vote a certain person. I absolutely abhor that person. DH knew what would happen if he voted that way. We requested mail in ballots and DH showed me he did not vote for that person before mailing the ballot.
DH had a very very fun night that day.
IT IS NOT TOUGH TO TRAIN!
I’m the poster earlier who said I was confused why everyone was calling “open communication” training. This post is just as bad as the flip side imo and is super infantilizing to the husband
Anonymous
10/17/2020 17:16
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
There are so many things on which DH needed training. It is a long painful process but I think everyone can do it.
DH wanted to vote a certain person. I absolutely abhor that person. DH knew what would happen if he voted that way. We requested mail in ballots and DH showed me he did not vote for that person before mailing the ballot.
DH had a very very fun night that day.
IT IS NOT TOUGH TO TRAIN!
DH wanted to vote a certain person. I absolutely abhor that person. DH knew what would happen if he voted that way. We requested mail in ballots and DH showed me he did not vote for that person before mailing the ballot.
DH had a very very fun night that day.
IT IS NOT TOUGH TO TRAIN!
Anonymous
10/17/2020 16:50
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If my DH asked me to clean the bathroom and then walked me in afterwards pointing out where I missed spots, I would hand him the paper towels, say “have fun!” and never do it again. Who would talk to an adult like this?
+1
I was just get ready to post exactly this. Send him back to store because he didn’t get exactly the right thing? WTF
I am always the one in our marriage to forget things at the grocery store, because I don't like grocery shopping and don't take my time. Or I get impatient and won't bother to ask someone if there is more in the back. My DH is much better about all those things and actively likes going grocery shopping. He'll even go to a second store if he needs to, which sounds like absolute torture to me.
I sense that a lot of the women saying you have to "train" your husband to do this stuff would freak out if the dynamic was reversed. If my husband demanded I return to the grocery store because I got light brown sugar instead of dark brown sugar, I bet many of these posters would be calling him abusive and telling me to get a divorce. But if a woman does it, she's just "smart".
Anonymous
10/17/2020 16:45
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If my DH asked me to clean the bathroom and then walked me in afterwards pointing out where I missed spots, I would hand him the paper towels, say “have fun!” and never do it again. Who would talk to an adult like this?
+1
I was just get ready to post exactly this. Send him back to store because he didn’t get exactly the right thing? WTF
Anonymous
10/17/2020 14:39
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I see TONS of posts like this all over these boards. There's one right now on the parenting board written by a poor BigLaw attorney with a toddler and baby who is working herself into an early grave doing everything for everybody by herself. Her husband is supposed to be the primary caregiver right now but he's not doing a good job. He can't even take the two kids to the grocery store. He doesn't do chores around the house because "he's not good at them." I swear, I am not picking on this woman, she is just the most recent example of this type of thing that I've seen but it's all day every day on here.
Here's what I don't get. If my husband went grocery shopping and picked out the wrong things, I'd (politely)* point this out to him and ask him to go back and get the right things. If he cleaned the bathroom and did a bad job, I'd ask him to do it again and get the spots he missed. if he said he was going to the grocery store and leaving the children at home for me to watch and work at the same time, I'd ask him if he was out of his mind.
Do these women not do this? Am I some crazy bitch? Early on in our marriage, we had some of this back and forth ^ but I was able to train him into a better husband. Yes, I'm using the word train because he started out useless at chores but quickly got better. Household chores are not hard. They just require effort and diligence. Now we're 50/50 and he's very comfortable with taking care of the house and kids. He even does hair.
*We both tolerate a lot of ribbing/teasing in our relationship and he is usually the instigator. So if he brought home the wrong things, I'd bust his balls big time but I know not everyone is up for this type of teasing. However, in his case, it only takes one or two experiences with this to get on the straight and narrow. He's the same way with me.
I guess what Im asking is, for women whose husbands really do nothing at home and you're at your wits end, have you tried calling him out on it? I would honestly say, "you're being a huge baby right now and it's really unattractive. Adults suck it up and get it done rather than whine." But maybe I am a crazy bitch, IDK.
It’s very simple. Women are now pushed to breastfeed or even EBF. This board and city is home to many educated women who breastfeed. They are left at home with a baby to breastfeed while their husband returns to work. It becomes very clear the baby is their responsibility and not the dad’s. Then they are stuck with the household work since their husband is at work during the day. Many of these women don’t have enough paid leave or want to be home, so they completely drop out of the workforce. Then they absolutely are the default parent and in charge of the housework. Plenty of women lose their identity and become unpaid labor for men in the blink of an eye and a lot of it has to do with breastfeeding. Formula is freedom for women. It might not be the best for babies (who knows), but it’s the best for MOM.
I’m so annoyed by your diatribe. I have 3 kids that I breastfed for 2 years each. Dh still did 50%. I did put the babies to bed every night for probably 9-12 months but Dh had other chores or was reading to the other kids. And now we switch off. Frankly I loved breastfeeding so much (but I’m not some crazy pro breastfeeding person who talks about it).
I’d argue that birth is where the inequity lies. I had to recover afterwards and no one cared about that other than Dh.
That’s great it worked out for you. But it’s not crazy to see how breastfeeding, which entirely falls on the mom, results in the mom becoming the default parent. The mom has to be with the baby while breastfeeding and can only leave the house without the baby for a short period of time (unless bringing a pump along). Breastfeeding, especially EBF, makes it very clear to the dad that the baby is entirely the responsibility of the mom. Breastfeeding lasts a year or more sometimes. Recovery from birth is 6-8 weeks.
Another poster pointed out that you have to achieve 50:50 equality early on in a marriage and with young kids. If you EBF and then stay home with kids and take on all of the unpaid labor whole DH works - well, you’re going to have a hard time bouncing back from that.
Regardless, I doubt you have many kids or a life outside of family. Breastfeeding 3 kids simply doesn’t allow much time to have friends besides fake mom friends who aren’t really your friend. Formula would have liberated you.
I took 4 months off after births but went back to work and pumped. I have my own office and pumping was nbd for me. You only can’t leave your baby in the beginning. By 3 months they can go 3 hours without milk. I have plenty of friends too.
We actually thought breastfeeding was so much easier. No bottles and it was faster. Baby did come everywhere with me, but probably would have if I used formula too.
Anonymous
10/17/2020 14:34
Subject: Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out
Anonymous wrote:If my DH asked me to clean the bathroom and then walked me in afterwards pointing out where I missed spots, I would hand him the paper towels, say “have fun!” and never do it again. Who would talk to an adult like this?
+1