Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMC and UC are very different. I’m surprised this is a combined thread.

UMC is basically a glorified MC where the only extra is some travel and maybe maid/lawn service.

UC is obviously much different.

Yes and no. I mean I understand why I’ll never be UC by birth. But why is $4 million a year glorified MC? The lifestyle and knowledge it provides will never be MC. It’s Upper Upper Middle which is different than basic Upper Middle.

Im curious if anyone is truly UC in here. Like over $8million in the bank, net worth. And what your kids are during corona.

UC means your income does not come from your salary. You may never work a day in your life and you'd still be extremely comfortable. And your family's social standing gives you access to lots of good stuff. If your comfortable living comes from your salary, no matter how high, you're not UC.

I think this is right. The true marker of UC is that you don’t actually have to work for a living.

That's what I've been trying to get across. People seem to think it's about money and material possessions, but it's really not. It's about a lifestyle. Of course you need money to get to that lifestyle, but you also need social connections that take generations to build.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The obsession with maintaining a full schedule of organized activities seems weird and stressful.

I grew up UMC and I never had a full schedule of organized activities. Neither did most of the people I grew up with, except for maybe some whose parents were obsessed with their kids doing everything. The rest of us had a single passion, whether it was horseback riding, ice skating, sailing, golfing, tennis, etc., and we spent our time doing that plus our school work. Other than tutors for standardized tests, we didn't spend hours toiling away at Kumon or whatever people use now. My life was anything but weird and stressful. In fact, given that none of us had to have jobs, we actually had quite a lot of time for social activities and relaxation and travel.

I think being over scheduled is more a sign of the times than anything else. Kids in general are busier today than 20-30 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMC and UC are very different. I’m surprised this is a combined thread.

UMC is basically a glorified MC where the only extra is some travel and maybe maid/lawn service.

UC is obviously much different.

Yes and no. I mean I understand why I’ll never be UC by birth. But why is $4 million a year glorified MC? The lifestyle and knowledge it provides will never be MC. It’s Upper Upper Middle which is different than basic Upper Middle.

Im curious if anyone is truly UC in here. Like over $8million in the bank, net worth. And what your kids are during corona.

UC means your income does not come from your salary. You may never work a day in your life and you'd still be extremely comfortable. And your family's social standing gives you access to lots of good stuff. If your comfortable living comes from your salary, no matter how high, you're not UC.

I think this is right. The true marker of UC is that you don’t actually have to work for a living.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMC and UC are very different. I’m surprised this is a combined thread.

UMC is basically a glorified MC where the only extra is some travel and maybe maid/lawn service.

UC is obviously much different.

Yes and no. I mean I understand why I’ll never be UC by birth. But why is $4 million a year glorified MC? The lifestyle and knowledge it provides will never be MC. It’s Upper Upper Middle which is different than basic Upper Middle.

Im curious if anyone is truly UC in here. Like over $8million in the bank, net worth. And what your kids are during corona.

UC means your income does not come from your salary. You may never work a day in your life and you'd still be extremely comfortable. And your family's social standing gives you access to lots of good stuff. If your comfortable living comes from your salary, no matter how high, you're not UC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The obsession with maintaining a full schedule of organized activities seems weird and stressful.

I grew up UMC and I never had a full schedule of organized activities. Neither did most of the people I grew up with, except for maybe some whose parents were obsessed with their kids doing everything. The rest of us had a single passion, whether it was horseback riding, ice skating, sailing, golfing, tennis, etc., and we spent our time doing that plus our school work. Other than tutors for standardized tests, we didn't spend hours toiling away at Kumon or whatever people use now. My life was anything but weird and stressful. In fact, given that none of us had to have jobs, we actually had quite a lot of time for social activities and relaxation and travel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The obsession with maintaining a full schedule of organized activities seems weird and stressful.

I grew up UMC and I never had a full schedule of organized activities. Neither did most of the people I grew up with, except for maybe some whose parents were obsessed with their kids doing everything. The rest of us had a single passion, whether it was horseback riding, ice skating, sailing, golfing, tennis, etc., and we spent our time doing that plus our school work. Other than tutors for standardized tests, we didn't spend hours toiling away at Kumon or whatever people use now. My life was anything but weird and stressful. In fact, given that none of us had to have jobs, we actually had quite a lot of time for social activities and relaxation and travel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMC and UC are very different. I’m surprised this is a combined thread.

UMC is basically a glorified MC where the only extra is some travel and maybe maid/lawn service.

UC is obviously much different.

I think you are very correct. I am UMC by HHI, but my spending pattern, culture and relationship with money is entirely MC. I also do not have the confidence of UC that the good times will roll forever. I am always prepping.

In the DMV

UMC is 150k-300k income

Upper class is 300k and up

No, sorry, UC does not start at $300K.

So much of this depends on other things. HHI is just one piece of the puzzle. We have a HHI of $450k, but we still have a negative net worth due to mortgage and student loans. That’s a combined income, so we also spend a pretty good amount on childcare. Many of the things mentioned in this thread are out of reach for us.
But a single income of $450k with no student loans and a SAHP would be in a very different position.

I agree with you that those are two different situations, but I still don't think even a family with an HHI of $450K and one stay at home parent is UC. It just isn't enough money to buy what the truly rich have. It's comfortable, but I think that's still UMC. Maybe UUMC. But not UC based on that HHI alone. Now, if both parents were raised truly UC and had inherited wealth in addition to an HHI of $450K, then maybe.

Anonymous wrote:The obsession with maintaining a full schedule of organized activities seems weird and stressful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMC and UC are very different. I’m surprised this is a combined thread.

UMC is basically a glorified MC where the only extra is some travel and maybe maid/lawn service.

UC is obviously much different.

I think you are very correct. I am UMC by HHI, but my spending pattern, culture and relationship with money is entirely MC. I also do not have the confidence of UC that the good times will roll forever. I am always prepping.

In the DMV

UMC is 150k-300k income

Upper class is 300k and up

No, sorry, UC does not start at $300K.

So much of this depends on other things. HHI is just one piece of the puzzle. We have a HHI of $450k, but we still have a negative net worth due to mortgage and student loans. That’s a combined income, so we also spend a pretty good amount on childcare. Many of the things mentioned in this thread are out of reach for us.
But a single income of $450k with no student loans and a SAHP would be in a very different position.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you aren't born into wealth and social status, you'll never really be upper class. I say this as someone who went to Phillips Academy Andover for high school and met a lot of kids from that world. My parents could afford to pay full freight, but I quickly realized I would never be part of the world some of those kids occupied, no matter how much money my parents make. That's fine--it doesn't bother me--but it's the reality.

Truly upper class people don't make their money from paychecks. They make their money through dividends. They have trust funds. They have dorms named after their families. Their families have been going to Ivy League schools since the early 1900s. They have legacy at prep schools like Andover, Brearley, and Collegiate.

It's not about vacations, nannies, etc. It's about whether you have generations of participation in the halls of power in this country.

If you haven't been born into that world, you will never be truly accepted into it, no matter how much money you make.

But isn’t this the beauty of America? You can make it in one generation and you dgaf who accepts you or not, actually plenty of UC people stand in line to greet truly successful entrepreneurs.

Also, Bezos wasn’t born in that world. Do you think he has any issues fitting in or he even cares?

I think having parents who come from a lower social class who rose up is a benefit. Talking about grit and determination and the things they didn't have growing up helps a child to appreciate his UMC or even UC privilege and gives them a different perspective.

In your eyes, not everyone's. I had a friend back home (in a country that went through extreme changes and came out very stratified) who refused to date men, no matter how successful, who didn't come from stable affluent families to begin with. She said self-made men had a level of aggression and indiscriminateness of means about them that she didn't want to deal with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know if it’s me being a cheap Asian, but I consider myself UMC ($300k) and barely do any of the things listed on this thread. Vacation home? Fancy private schools? Luxe travel with young kids? HA. About the only thing I did was buy a beautiful home in a pricey suburb and save aggressively to pay for college and a nest egg.

Agree.

We have HHI of just above 300K.

We live in a smaller house in a good close-in neighborhood with good public schools.

Kids have activities, camps and sports, but are not overscheduled.

Weekly housecleaners, occasional maid who helps with ironing and cooking.

We travel three times a year as a family (once or twice internationally).

I also agree. The ponies and horseback riding and vacation homes is an UC thing, not a 300k UMC thing. We have to pinch every penny to save for college and retirement.

We drive Toyotas.

No country clubs, ponies, nannies, vacation homes with our income. Many would consider it a UMC income.

I think income is just one of class components (education, values, pastime, friends/associations are other components).

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know if it’s me being a cheap Asian, but I consider myself UMC ($300k) and barely do any of the things listed on this thread. Vacation home? Fancy private schools? Luxe travel with young kids? HA. About the only thing I did was buy a beautiful home in a pricey suburb and save aggressively to pay for college and a nest egg.