Anonymous
Post 09/22/2019 01:17     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you’re worried about the dating part now you are going to have a rough time. You should only divorce when you believe that even if you never met anyone else again, you would still be better off not in this relationship with this person. Your sole focus if you are really pursuing this should be ensuring you and your kids are whole and happy and healthy and stable. Dating should not be on your radar for one year MINIMUM when you divorce with young kids. And I’m not some Puritan holy roller, I support people divorcing when it’s best, but if you go or stay based on your dating prospects, you will not have an easy time of it either way.


Agreed 100% - former single Mom. I didn't date for 1 year to recover. It took 7 years of dating to find a really good match. It will NOT happen overnight.


I’ll counter this. I was divorced a year and met someone on Bumble. He’s pretty fantastic. We’ve been dating a year now. I never thought I’d meet someone serious so quickly. I’m 40, he’s 42. I have 3 kids, he has 2. We both are high earners. I put this out there to show that there are all sorts of different ways that things happen. You really never know.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 18:12     Subject: Re:Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I will never want my kids to marry people with divorced parents. Something very basic is broken in such people. They no longer are marriage or parent material.

I have a lot of respect for families that are headed by single moms or dads with sole custody of children - either because they never married or they were widowed. Their kids turn out ok.


That is kind of moronic. My parents were each married twice before they married each other and they later divorced. Out of four kids one has been married 37 years, another 35 years, another 25 years and the fourth 15 years. What was broken about us?


This is kind of moronic. You have not read the numerous studies that show that having divorced parents increases the risk of divorce among the adult children of divorce, and instead babble on about muh parents and muh siblings as if that means anything.


I was responding to a person (you? I don't know) who said they will never want their kids to marry people with divorced parents because something very basic is broken in them and they are no longer marriage or parent material. What study backs up that ridiculous theory? If you can't marry children of divorced parents that eliminates probably more than half of all potential mates. And then to also say that kids of single parents who were never married all turn out ok, well, if that isn't moronic I don't know what is. These inane statements need to be challenged, whether you like my personal history or not. I think we both know that there are many many children of divorced parents who are not "broken" past the point of being marriage or parent material.

And you are right, I have not read the numerous studies that show having divorced parents increases the risk of divorce among children of divorce, why would I? It's not relevant to my life. Someone is babbling on here but I'm pretty sure it's not me.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 16:12     Subject: Re:Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:I will never want my kids to marry people with divorced parents. Something very basic is broken in such people. They no longer are marriage or parent material.

I have a lot of respect for families that are headed by single moms or dads with sole custody of children - either because they never married or they were widowed. Their kids turn out ok.


Chances are 1. Your kids wouldn’t ask you because 2. They wouldn’t rate too high on the marriage marketplace themselves - having a moron for a parent (future in-law!!!) is a huge black mark against them.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 16:02     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
You’ll bang your trainer.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 15:54     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
There is nothing inherently “broken” or bad about divorce.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 14:59     Subject: Re:Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:I will never want my kids to marry people with divorced parents. Something very basic is broken in such people. They no longer are marriage or parent material.

I have a lot of respect for families that are headed by single moms or dads with sole custody of children - either because they never married or they were widowed. Their kids turn out ok.


I know several people with divorced parents that are in perfectly healthy relationships as adults.
There are also many damaged people whose parents had bad relationships but stayed together. Don't be so judgmental. What if one of your own kids ends up divorced someday?
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 14:45     Subject: Re:Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I will never want my kids to marry people with divorced parents. Something very basic is broken in such people. They no longer are marriage or parent material.

I have a lot of respect for families that are headed by single moms or dads with sole custody of children - either because they never married or they were widowed. Their kids turn out ok.


That is kind of moronic. My parents were each married twice before they married each other and they later divorced. Out of four kids one has been married 37 years, another 35 years, another 25 years and the fourth 15 years. What was broken about us?


This is kind of moronic. You have not read the numerous studies that show that having divorced parents increases the risk of divorce among the adult children of divorce, and instead babble on about muh parents and muh siblings as if that means anything.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 13:46     Subject: Re:Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:I will never want my kids to marry people with divorced parents. Something very basic is broken in such people. They no longer are marriage or parent material.

I have a lot of respect for families that are headed by single moms or dads with sole custody of children - either because they never married or they were widowed. Their kids turn out ok.


That is kind of moronic. My parents were each married twice before they married each other and they later divorced. Out of four kids one has been married 37 years, another 35 years, another 25 years and the fourth 15 years. What was broken about us?
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 13:40     Subject: Re:Tell me what divorce will be like
I will never want my kids to marry people with divorced parents. Something very basic is broken in such people. They no longer are marriage or parent material.

I have a lot of respect for families that are headed by single moms or dads with sole custody of children - either because they never married or they were widowed. Their kids turn out ok.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 09:51     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Divorce doesn't mess up kids--conflict does. Plenty of married people in conflicting causing serious harm to their kids' emotional well-being. But they don't have the courage to move on and learn something new.

These horror stories of divorce--you think that those relationships could have worked out? It's not a binary -- stay together and be happy vs. be divorced and be miserable. So many people let fear drive them and they stay in a bad marriage, meanwhile teaching their kids how to have bad relationships.


Yes. But, people don't just fall into high-conflict relationships - they end up in them because one or both partners are high-conflict personalities. And the conflict will continue after divorce, unless the parents make a concerted effort to put the kids first. And, high-conflict personalities can be to a certain extent an inherited temperament, so if you have an anxious/reactive kid by nature, who spends years in a high-conflict family and then a high-conflict divorce, everything is compounded.


This. Then subsequent marriages are as bad or worse, further traumatizing the kids. It's the people and their behaviors, not the marriage itself.


I hope you realize that, given self-awareness and willingness, people are capable of changing their behaviors.


Divorce doesn't make that happen. It can happen in a marriage. Try it!


Divorce can change behaviors for the better. I am about to divorce and STBX is a high-functioning ASPIE. After making the decision to leave - after years of individual and couples therapy - my anger towards him has dissipated because I have released all expectations of him being a husband to me - basic expectations like empathy, capacity to listen, and a reciprocal physical relationship and I have no shame for not able to "make it work."

The challenges of co-parenting will be there - but now I no longer feel trapped, have my own peaceful space, and can provide my children with an emotional maturity and capacity that is not eroded by trying to deal with him as a husband.

I do not expect to get re-married but of course I will have relationships - platonic and otherwise. It's a bizarre paradigm that has marriage being the only framework for intimacy, growth and change.


So your kids will be on their own to deal with him for the rest of their lives? Sounds super fun.

Sounds like someone is in a shitty marriage, unable to afford any therapy and trying to rationalize her choice to stay. Your kids will have to deal with that for the rest of their lives too.

Anonymous
Post 09/21/2019 09:38     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I the PP who posted about the Aspie STBX - it only takes one person to change a dynamic, and here it was me by deciding to pursue divorce. Amazingly, this has made our communications more civilized. There is some sadness, but both of us know it wasn't working out and there was no more "trying" harder, so there is also relief.

I trust him generally as a father, and ongoing parenting classes and family counseling is part of our custody plan. He is already very involved with our kids and there is zero concern for abuse.

Longer term, I can see being a resource for him - not as a wife, but as a family member. Also - just as if we were still married, he has to manage his own relationship with the kids. If he wants a positive relationship with them when they are older and have more a choice, then he needs to work on that. If he is a PITA, then my children have a choice of not dealing with him as a difficult old person. I am not going to impose that guilt on them.


What about your guilt for forcing your kids to manage their aspie dad without you around to mediate?

Nice job throwing them under the bus...


+1. Seems like you're putting your children to a hard choice, especially if they have children and want the children to know their grandfather.
Anonymous
Post 09/20/2019 22:56     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:I the PP who posted about the Aspie STBX - it only takes one person to change a dynamic, and here it was me by deciding to pursue divorce. Amazingly, this has made our communications more civilized. There is some sadness, but both of us know it wasn't working out and there was no more "trying" harder, so there is also relief.

I trust him generally as a father, and ongoing parenting classes and family counseling is part of our custody plan. He is already very involved with our kids and there is zero concern for abuse.

Longer term, I can see being a resource for him - not as a wife, but as a family member. Also - just as if we were still married, he has to manage his own relationship with the kids. If he wants a positive relationship with them when they are older and have more a choice, then he needs to work on that. If he is a PITA, then my children have a choice of not dealing with him as a difficult old person. I am not going to impose that guilt on them.


What about your guilt for forcing your kids to manage their aspie dad without you around to mediate?

Nice job throwing them under the bus...
Anonymous
Post 09/20/2019 17:01     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Divorce doesn't mess up kids--conflict does. Plenty of married people in conflicting causing serious harm to their kids' emotional well-being. But they don't have the courage to move on and learn something new.

These horror stories of divorce--you think that those relationships could have worked out? It's not a binary -- stay together and be happy vs. be divorced and be miserable. So many people let fear drive them and they stay in a bad marriage, meanwhile teaching their kids how to have bad relationships.


Yes. But, people don't just fall into high-conflict relationships - they end up in them because one or both partners are high-conflict personalities. And the conflict will continue after divorce, unless the parents make a concerted effort to put the kids first. And, high-conflict personalities can be to a certain extent an inherited temperament, so if you have an anxious/reactive kid by nature, who spends years in a high-conflict family and then a high-conflict divorce, everything is compounded.


This. Then subsequent marriages are as bad or worse, further traumatizing the kids. It's the people and their behaviors, not the marriage itself.


I hope you realize that, given self-awareness and willingness, people are capable of changing their behaviors.


Divorce doesn't make that happen. It can happen in a marriage. Try it!


Divorce can change behaviors for the better. I am about to divorce and STBX is a high-functioning ASPIE. After making the decision to leave - after years of individual and couples therapy - my anger towards him has dissipated because I have released all expectations of him being a husband to me - basic expectations like empathy, capacity to listen, and a reciprocal physical relationship and I have no shame for not able to "make it work."

The challenges of co-parenting will be there - but now I no longer feel trapped, have my own peaceful space, and can provide my children with an emotional maturity and capacity that is not eroded by trying to deal with him as a husband.

I do not expect to get re-married but of course I will have relationships - platonic and otherwise. It's a bizarre paradigm that has marriage being the only framework for intimacy, growth and change.


So your kids will be on their own to deal with him for the rest of their lives? Sounds super fun.


Boy, you're sure moving the goalposts of divorce shaming, aren't you?


No. Divorce has lifelong consequences and dealing with a parent on your own is one of them. Parents divorcing should be cognizant of this and weigh the pros and cons of the change they are imposing on their children.


Not being able to divorce because you fear the other parent will endanger or abuse the children is a real thing, and truly horrific, and you should feel sympathetic towards those parents because they CANNOT divorce, not use their terribly circumstances as a cudgel against the rest of us.


Yes, it's very sad. But the fact remains dealing with a difficult parent on their own is also a hardship for children. For the entire life of the parent, maybe especially in the elderly years. Divorce is dumping this problem on your children. If you decide it's still in their best interest, great. But don't pretend it isn't going to be hard for them. I'm sure they'll love seeing you have fun with your new boyfriend while they cope on their own with their difficult father.


Okay Jan! I have the feeling you’re numb to the low-key disrespect your husband gives you, and that you delight in the chance to subtly shade divorcing women in your circle that you can’t imagine how hard it must be for the kids. We get it. You’re anti-divorce. Glad you have enough Xanax and Sauvignon Blanc to get you through the days.
Anonymous
Post 09/20/2019 16:38     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
I the PP who posted about the Aspie STBX - it only takes one person to change a dynamic, and here it was me by deciding to pursue divorce. Amazingly, this has made our communications more civilized. There is some sadness, but both of us know it wasn't working out and there was no more "trying" harder, so there is also relief.

I trust him generally as a father, and ongoing parenting classes and family counseling is part of our custody plan. He is already very involved with our kids and there is zero concern for abuse.

Longer term, I can see being a resource for him - not as a wife, but as a family member. Also - just as if we were still married, he has to manage his own relationship with the kids. If he wants a positive relationship with them when they are older and have more a choice, then he needs to work on that. If he is a PITA, then my children have a choice of not dealing with him as a difficult old person. I am not going to impose that guilt on them.
Anonymous
Post 09/20/2019 11:49     Subject: Tell me what divorce will be like
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Divorce doesn't mess up kids--conflict does. Plenty of married people in conflicting causing serious harm to their kids' emotional well-being. But they don't have the courage to move on and learn something new.

These horror stories of divorce--you think that those relationships could have worked out? It's not a binary -- stay together and be happy vs. be divorced and be miserable. So many people let fear drive them and they stay in a bad marriage, meanwhile teaching their kids how to have bad relationships.


Yes. But, people don't just fall into high-conflict relationships - they end up in them because one or both partners are high-conflict personalities. And the conflict will continue after divorce, unless the parents make a concerted effort to put the kids first. And, high-conflict personalities can be to a certain extent an inherited temperament, so if you have an anxious/reactive kid by nature, who spends years in a high-conflict family and then a high-conflict divorce, everything is compounded.


This. Then subsequent marriages are as bad or worse, further traumatizing the kids. It's the people and their behaviors, not the marriage itself.


I hope you realize that, given self-awareness and willingness, people are capable of changing their behaviors.


Divorce doesn't make that happen. It can happen in a marriage. Try it!


Divorce can change behaviors for the better. I am about to divorce and STBX is a high-functioning ASPIE. After making the decision to leave - after years of individual and couples therapy - my anger towards him has dissipated because I have released all expectations of him being a husband to me - basic expectations like empathy, capacity to listen, and a reciprocal physical relationship and I have no shame for not able to "make it work."

The challenges of co-parenting will be there - but now I no longer feel trapped, have my own peaceful space, and can provide my children with an emotional maturity and capacity that is not eroded by trying to deal with him as a husband.

I do not expect to get re-married but of course I will have relationships - platonic and otherwise. It's a bizarre paradigm that has marriage being the only framework for intimacy, growth and change.


So your kids will be on their own to deal with him for the rest of their lives? Sounds super fun.


Boy, you're sure moving the goalposts of divorce shaming, aren't you?


No. Divorce has lifelong consequences and dealing with a parent on your own is one of them. Parents divorcing should be cognizant of this and weigh the pros and cons of the change they are imposing on their children.


Not being able to divorce because you fear the other parent will endanger or abuse the children is a real thing, and truly horrific, and you should feel sympathetic towards those parents because they CANNOT divorce, not use their terribly circumstances as a cudgel against the rest of us.


Yes, it's very sad. But the fact remains dealing with a difficult parent on their own is also a hardship for children. For the entire life of the parent, maybe especially in the elderly years. Divorce is dumping this problem on your children. If you decide it's still in their best interest, great. But don't pretend it isn't going to be hard for them. I'm sure they'll love seeing you have fun with your new boyfriend while they cope on their own with their difficult father.


you will never, ever get off your high horse, will you? btw, I know this exact scenario where a friend of mine had to care for his difficult, aging, divorced father. he did not resent his mom for divorcing him for a second (he knew how awful he was to her). he cared for his mom, and his mom did what she could to support my friend. nobody is doomed to live with someone they hate their entire lives. and from my own parents, I can tell you that elderly parents that are at each other's throats and unable to come to rational decisions about shared interests (like downsizing) are their own special kind of misery.