Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 to most of this although I don't think those daycare costs are the norm at all. We are in Silver Spring and I looked at a LOT of daycares, but the absolute lowest I found was an in-home for $250 per week (maybe it went down to $200 for a toddler, but I can't remember). That's still $10k for one kid, and in this case it was a bit sketchy and we ended up at one that cost $300/week instead (which is still pretty reasonable in this area). Where the heck is someone finding a licensed daycare for $5000 per year?

I'm the one who posted. Here are some. All are fairly close to Silver Spring, MD. You are paying a premium to live in Montgomery County. That premium comes with increased costs on everything if you want to stay local. If you are willing to branch out some (especially going to PG County), you'll find inexpensive options. Also note that for the most part, the church-based preschool/child care are cheaper than centers. It used to be that in-home based childcare was the cheapest, but I have noticed that lately many of the in-home childcares have raised their prices.

Note, that these are all under the average costs, but I know families who send their kids to both the first two and they are good facilities. The families are typical middle class families that earn between $100-150K per year and have to find reasonable cost child care.

Hyattsville: https://www.mystandrew.org/preschool/
College Park: http://www.ucnskids.org/tuition-and-fees
Beltsville: https://www.hopechristianacademy.org/apply/tuition-costs
Laurel: https://christianacademyoflaurel.org/admissions/
Laurel: https://www.care.com/b/l/kristland-family-daycare/laurel-md

All of the above are no more than $600/month and between $5K-7K per student per year. The family that had two for about $10K had their younger 2 year old only in the 3-day a week program with grandmother watching him one day a week and Mom on a 4x10 hour day schedule watching him one day a week.

This is the cheapest I found in Silver Spring ($8400/year for 1st child, $7500/year for sibling discount)
https://fcs.school/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Financial-Info-Sheet-2019.20-updated-1.pdf

Christian Academy of Laurel is school year only. Great if you are a teacher, bad if you work 12 months a year like most people

The mystandrew link says the preschool is only open 9:15-1:15 each day. That is why it is so cheap. That is for SAHMs,not working moms.

ucnskids.org is 2 days a week only. Again, ok for SAMHs, not suitable for working moms.

That's for the 2's class.

For the 4 yo class, my friend has her 4 yo in the T-Th class ($565) and the M or T mixed year class ($190). So she pays $755 for the month for the 4 yo. Her 2 year old (about to turn 3) goes M-W-F for $505, about to go down to $485 for the month.

I can assure you that my friend, a working mom does find it suitable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of these PPs are LOWER MC. It’s ok.

You are one of the upper class (the lower end, but still the upper class) who don't really have a notion of what middle class now is.

The median salary in the DC metropolitan area is around $85K per year. Median HHI is about $98K per year. The poverty level is current $42K per year. $200K is the top 2.5% in this area (it takes about $388K to make the top 1% in this region). The Middle class is roughly $70K-150K per year. Someone making about $70-90K per year is LMC. Someone making $90-120K is pretty standard MC Someone making about $120-150 is UMC. Those making over $150 are above UMC. Those making under $70 are below LMC.

$200K is the top 2.5% of the region. They are not middle anything, especially not middle class.

My friends who are MC do take driving vacations to visit out-of-town family or the beach. They rarely taking flying vacations (I know one friend who had never been on an airplane until she took her 14 year old son on a special trip to Dallas to see the playoffs last year).

Your friends are LMC. And your figures are 20+ years out of date. A lot has happened in COL DCUM area in the last 20+ years. Even in 1999 those figures were off. Median salaries take the lowest and highest add them all up and divide. Not a very clear analysis. That you think someone making $300/yr is rich is sweet.

You should stop trying to use math. What you are talking about is an average, not a median. Median is the 50th percentile. That means that 50% of the population have salaries below the median and 50% of the population has salaries above the median.

And in point of fact the median of $85K is high. The average salary is less. The average male salary was $74.8K and the average female salary was $56.3K.

And no, the numbers are not 20+ years out of date. The numbers are from Data USA, for the 2017 year. The numbers for 2018 are not available yet.
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/washington-arlington-alexandria-dc-va-md-wv-metro-area/

Just take a look at the wage curve. Note that this is the wage curve for Virginia because they don't have the corresponding bracketed data for the DC-VA-MD-WV region that the full numbers are based on.
12% of the adult population made < $10K.

0 - $10K = 11.8%
$10K - $20K = 13.1%
$20K - $30K = 14.5%
$30K - $40K = 13.1%
$40K - $50K = 10.5%
$50K - $60K = 8.5%
$60K - $70K = 6.5%
$70K - $80K = 4.75%
$80K - $90K = 3.5%
$90K - 100K = 2.4%
$100K - $110K = 2.6%
$110K - $120K = 1.3%
$120K - $130K = 1.5%
$130K - $140K = 0.8%
$140K - $150K = 0.6%
$150K - $160K = 0.8%
$160K - $170K = 0.4%
$170K - $180K = 0.3%
$180K - $190K = 0.3%
$190K - $200K = 0.2%
$200K + = 2.4%

Those with incomes of $200K are in the top 2.4% of the wage earners for the entire region of 6.22M people. You are insulated in your bubble thinking it is middle class because there are so many people in that range; there are almost 150K people in that top bracket. But a better way to think of it is that you make more than 6.07M working age people in this region. Does that give you a better perspective?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 to most of this although I don't think those daycare costs are the norm at all. We are in Silver Spring and I looked at a LOT of daycares, but the absolute lowest I found was an in-home for $250 per week (maybe it went down to $200 for a toddler, but I can't remember). That's still $10k for one kid, and in this case it was a bit sketchy and we ended up at one that cost $300/week instead (which is still pretty reasonable in this area). Where the heck is someone finding a licensed daycare for $5000 per year?

I'm the one who posted. Here are some. All are fairly close to Silver Spring, MD. You are paying a premium to live in Montgomery County. That premium comes with increased costs on everything if you want to stay local. If you are willing to branch out some (especially going to PG County), you'll find inexpensive options. Also note that for the most part, the church-based preschool/child care are cheaper than centers. It used to be that in-home based childcare was the cheapest, but I have noticed that lately many of the in-home childcares have raised their prices.

Note, that these are all under the average costs, but I know families who send their kids to both the first two and they are good facilities. The families are typical middle class families that earn between $100-150K per year and have to find reasonable cost child care.

Hyattsville: https://www.mystandrew.org/preschool/
College Park: http://www.ucnskids.org/tuition-and-fees
Beltsville: https://www.hopechristianacademy.org/apply/tuition-costs
Laurel: https://christianacademyoflaurel.org/admissions/
Laurel: https://www.care.com/b/l/kristland-family-daycare/laurel-md

All of the above are no more than $600/month and between $5K-7K per student per year. The family that had two for about $10K had their younger 2 year old only in the 3-day a week program with grandmother watching him one day a week and Mom on a 4x10 hour day schedule watching him one day a week.

This is the cheapest I found in Silver Spring ($8400/year for 1st child, $7500/year for sibling discount)
https://fcs.school/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Financial-Info-Sheet-2019.20-updated-1.pdf

Christian Academy of Laurel is school year only. Great if you are a teacher, bad if you work 12 months a year like most people

The mystandrew link says the preschool is only open 9:15-1:15 each day. That is why it is so cheap. That is for SAHMs,not working moms.

ucnskids.org is 2 days a week only. Again, ok for SAMHs, not suitable for working moms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of these PPs are LOWER MC. It’s ok.

You are one of the upper class (the lower end, but still the upper class) who don't really have a notion of what middle class now is.

The median salary in the DC metropolitan area is around $85K per year. Median HHI is about $98K per year. The poverty level is current $42K per year. $200K is the top 2.5% in this area (it takes about $388K to make the top 1% in this region). The Middle class is roughly $70K-150K per year. Someone making about $70-90K per year is LMC. Someone making $90-120K is pretty standard MC Someone making about $120-150 is UMC. Those making over $150 are above UMC. Those making under $70 are below LMC.

$200K is the top 2.5% of the region. They are not middle anything, especially not middle class.

My friends who are MC do take driving vacations to visit out-of-town family or the beach. They rarely taking flying vacations (I know one friend who had never been on an airplane until she took her 14 year old son on a special trip to Dallas to see the playoffs last year).

Your friends are LMC. And your figures are 20+ years out of date. A lot has happened in COL DCUM area in the last 20+ years. Even in 1999 those figures were off. Median salaries take the lowest and highest add them all up and divide. Not a very clear analysis. That you think someone making $300/yr is rich is sweet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of these PPs are LOWER MC. It’s ok.

You are one of the upper class (the lower end, but still the upper class) who don't really have a notion of what middle class now is.

The median salary in the DC metropolitan area is around $85K per year. Median HHI is about $98K per year. The poverty level is current $42K per year. $200K is the top 2.5% in this area (it takes about $388K to make the top 1% in this region). The Middle class is roughly $70K-150K per year. Someone making about $70-90K per year is LMC. Someone making $90-120K is pretty standard MC Someone making about $120-150 is UMC. Those making over $150 are above UMC. Those making under $70 are below LMC.

$200K is the top 2.5% of the region. They are not middle anything, especially not middle class.

My friends who are MC do take driving vacations to visit out-of-town family or the beach. They rarely taking flying vacations (I know one friend who had never been on an airplane until she took her 14 year old son on a special trip to Dallas to see the playoffs last year).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these folks scripting and saving to hike and camp and eat their PBJs on vacation: yes that’s the lower MC vacation.

So what’s a middle MC vacation and cost versus an upper MC vacation and cost?

I think UMC is $1k plus a day for 7 or more days. Total budget per year $15-20
MC vacation is 1 vacation at $3600 (like week at beach) and the total year budget $5000.

What kind of week at the beach is 7k? The last house we rented in Emerald Isle was just over 7k. This home only slept 6. And yes we drove.

We were well over 7k once golf, food and a charter fishing boat was thrown in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these folks scripting and saving to hike and camp and eat their PBJs on vacation: yes that’s the lower MC vacation.

So what’s a middle MC vacation and cost versus an upper MC vacation and cost?

I think UMC is $1k plus a day for 7 or more days. Total budget per year $15-20
MC vacation is 1 vacation at $3600 (like week at beach) and the total year budget $5000.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any economist or demographer that would say a household’s class level is determined by their itemized monthly budget. By all accounts, a household’s INCOME RELATIVE TO OTHER EARNERS OF THE SAME HOUSEHOLD SIZE AND IN THE SAME GEOGRAPHIC AREA determined class. Yes, the cities mentioned in the article are high cost of living areas. But it’s very clear that spending almost $6,000 a month on PITI, which would equate to a $1.6 million dollar home, is absolutely unnecessary. There are plenty of suitable homes far, far below this price in the DC area. Whether a household inefficiently allocates its scarce resources among its spend categories is their decision to make. But it does NOT change the fact that, as noted above, class is not determined at the itemized budget level.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 to most of this although I don't think those daycare costs are the norm at all. We are in Silver Spring and I looked at a LOT of daycares, but the absolute lowest I found was an in-home for $250 per week (maybe it went down to $200 for a toddler, but I can't remember). That's still $10k for one kid, and in this case it was a bit sketchy and we ended up at one that cost $300/week instead (which is still pretty reasonable in this area). Where the heck is someone finding a licensed daycare for $5000 per year?

I'm the one who posted. Here are some. All are fairly close to Silver Spring, MD. You are paying a premium to live in Montgomery County. That premium comes with increased costs on everything if you want to stay local. If you are willing to branch out some (especially going to PG County), you'll find inexpensive options. Also note that for the most part, the church-based preschool/child care are cheaper than centers. It used to be that in-home based childcare was the cheapest, but I have noticed that lately many of the in-home childcares have raised their prices.

Note, that these are all under the average costs, but I know families who send their kids to both the first two and they are good facilities. The families are typical middle class families that earn between $100-150K per year and have to find reasonable cost child care.

Hyattsville: https://www.mystandrew.org/preschool/
College Park: http://www.ucnskids.org/tuition-and-fees
Beltsville: https://www.hopechristianacademy.org/apply/tuition-costs
Laurel: https://christianacademyoflaurel.org/admissions/
Laurel: https://www.care.com/b/l/kristland-family-daycare/laurel-md

All of the above are no more than $600/month and between $5K-7K per student per year. The family that had two for about $10K had their younger 2 year old only in the 3-day a week program with grandmother watching him one day a week and Mom on a 4x10 hour day schedule watching him one day a week.

This is the cheapest I found in Silver Spring ($8400/year for 1st child, $7500/year for sibling discount)
https://fcs.school/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Financial-Info-Sheet-2019.20-updated-1.pdf

Christian Academy of Laurel is school year only. Great if you are a teacher, bad if you work 12 months a year like most people

The mystandrew link says the preschool is only open 9:15-1:15 each day. That is why it is so cheap. That is for SAHMs,not working moms.

ucnskids.org is 2 days a week only. Again, ok for SAMHs, not suitable for working moms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 to most of this although I don't think those daycare costs are the norm at all. We are in Silver Spring and I looked at a LOT of daycares, but the absolute lowest I found was an in-home for $250 per week (maybe it went down to $200 for a toddler, but I can't remember). That's still $10k for one kid, and in this case it was a bit sketchy and we ended up at one that cost $300/week instead (which is still pretty reasonable in this area). Where the heck is someone finding a licensed daycare for $5000 per year?

I'm the one who posted. Here are some. All are fairly close to Silver Spring, MD. You are paying a premium to live in Montgomery County. That premium comes with increased costs on everything if you want to stay local. If you are willing to branch out some (especially going to PG County), you'll find inexpensive options. Also note that for the most part, the church-based preschool/child care are cheaper than centers. It used to be that in-home based childcare was the cheapest, but I have noticed that lately many of the in-home childcares have raised their prices.

Note, that these are all under the average costs, but I know families who send their kids to both the first two and they are good facilities. The families are typical middle class families that earn between $100-150K per year and have to find reasonable cost child care.

Hyattsville: https://www.mystandrew.org/preschool/
College Park: http://www.ucnskids.org/tuition-and-fees
Beltsville: https://www.hopechristianacademy.org/apply/tuition-costs
Laurel: https://christianacademyoflaurel.org/admissions/
Laurel: https://www.care.com/b/l/kristland-family-daycare/laurel-md

All of the above are no more than $600/month and between $5K-7K per student per year. The family that had two for about $10K had their younger 2 year old only in the 3-day a week program with grandmother watching him one day a week and Mom on a 4x10 hour day schedule watching him one day a week.

This is the cheapest I found in Silver Spring ($8400/year for 1st child, $7500/year for sibling discount)
https://fcs.school/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Financial-Info-Sheet-2019.20-updated-1.pdf

Christian Academy of Laurel is school year only. Great if you are a teacher, bad if you work 12 months a year like most people

The mystandrew link says the preschool is only open 9:15-1:15 each day. That is why it is so cheap. That is for SAHMs,not working moms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 to most of this although I don't think those daycare costs are the norm at all. We are in Silver Spring and I looked at a LOT of daycares, but the absolute lowest I found was an in-home for $250 per week (maybe it went down to $200 for a toddler, but I can't remember). That's still $10k for one kid, and in this case it was a bit sketchy and we ended up at one that cost $300/week instead (which is still pretty reasonable in this area). Where the heck is someone finding a licensed daycare for $5000 per year?

I'm the one who posted. Here are some. All are fairly close to Silver Spring, MD. You are paying a premium to live in Montgomery County. That premium comes with increased costs on everything if you want to stay local. If you are willing to branch out some (especially going to PG County), you'll find inexpensive options. Also note that for the most part, the church-based preschool/child care are cheaper than centers. It used to be that in-home based childcare was the cheapest, but I have noticed that lately many of the in-home childcares have raised their prices.

Note, that these are all under the average costs, but I know families who send their kids to both the first two and they are good facilities. The families are typical middle class families that earn between $100-150K per year and have to find reasonable cost child care.

Hyattsville: https://www.mystandrew.org/preschool/
College Park: http://www.ucnskids.org/tuition-and-fees
Beltsville: https://www.hopechristianacademy.org/apply/tuition-costs
Laurel: https://christianacademyoflaurel.org/admissions/
Laurel: https://www.care.com/b/l/kristland-family-daycare/laurel-md

All of the above are no more than $600/month and between $5K-7K per student per year. The family that had two for about $10K had their younger 2 year old only in the 3-day a week program with grandmother watching him one day a week and Mom on a 4x10 hour day schedule watching him one day a week.

This is the cheapest I found in Silver Spring ($8400/year for 1st child, $7500/year for sibling discount)
https://fcs.school/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Financial-Info-Sheet-2019.20-updated-1.pdf

Christian Academy of Laurel is school year only. Great if you are a teacher, bad if you work 12 months a year like most people

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 to most of this although I don't think those daycare costs are the norm at all. We are in Silver Spring and I looked at a LOT of daycares, but the absolute lowest I found was an in-home for $250 per week (maybe it went down to $200 for a toddler, but I can't remember). That's still $10k for one kid, and in this case it was a bit sketchy and we ended up at one that cost $300/week instead (which is still pretty reasonable in this area). Where the heck is someone finding a licensed daycare for $5000 per year?

I'm the one who posted. Here are some. All are fairly close to Silver Spring, MD. You are paying a premium to live in Montgomery County. That premium comes with increased costs on everything if you want to stay local. If you are willing to branch out some (especially going to PG County), you'll find inexpensive options. Also note that for the most part, the church-based preschool/child care are cheaper than centers. It used to be that in-home based childcare was the cheapest, but I have noticed that lately many of the in-home childcares have raised their prices.

Note, that these are all under the average costs, but I know families who send their kids to both the first two and they are good facilities. The families are typical middle class families that earn between $100-150K per year and have to find reasonable cost child care.

Hyattsville: https://www.mystandrew.org/preschool/
College Park: http://www.ucnskids.org/tuition-and-fees
Beltsville: https://www.hopechristianacademy.org/apply/tuition-costs
Laurel: https://christianacademyoflaurel.org/admissions/
Laurel: https://www.care.com/b/l/kristland-family-daycare/laurel-md

All of the above are no more than $600/month and between $5K-7K per student per year. The family that had two for about $10K had their younger 2 year old only in the 3-day a week program with grandmother watching him one day a week and Mom on a 4x10 hour day schedule watching him one day a week.

This is the cheapest I found in Silver Spring ($8400/year for 1st child, $7500/year for sibling discount)
https://fcs.school/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Financial-Info-Sheet-2019.20-updated-1.pdf

Christian Academy of Laurel is school year only. Great if you are a teacher, bad if you work 12 months a year like most people

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to find the cheapest possible daycare and send you kid there?

Because when you are middle class, you don't have that much disposable income to spare. Sometimes you do what you can afford. See, this is what you upper class folks don't seem to understand. You have choices because you have enough disposable income to have options. The middle class do not have the option to spend $18-20K on daycare because they don't have $18-20K per year to spend without making some compromises somewhere else in the budget. Try coming down off of your expensive pedestal and seeing what the majority of families in the US really have to choose between.

And I can tell you that those church-based daycares may be inexpensive, but they are good quality daycares. I know families who go to 3 of the 5 church-based daycares I listed above. And they like the facilities and think their kids have gotten good care at them.

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to find the cheapest possible daycare and send you kid there?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 to most of this although I don't think those daycare costs are the norm at all. We are in Silver Spring and I looked at a LOT of daycares, but the absolute lowest I found was an in-home for $250 per week (maybe it went down to $200 for a toddler, but I can't remember). That's still $10k for one kid, and in this case it was a bit sketchy and we ended up at one that cost $300/week instead (which is still pretty reasonable in this area). Where the heck is someone finding a licensed daycare for $5000 per year?

I'm the one who posted. Here are some. All are fairly close to Silver Spring, MD. You are paying a premium to live in Montgomery County. That premium comes with increased costs on everything if you want to stay local. If you are willing to branch out some (especially going to PG County), you'll find inexpensive options. Also note that for the most part, the church-based preschool/child care are cheaper than centers. It used to be that in-home based childcare was the cheapest, but I have noticed that lately many of the in-home childcares have raised their prices.

Note, that these are all under the average costs, but I know families who send their kids to both the first two and they are good facilities. The families are typical middle class families that earn between $100-150K per year and have to find reasonable cost child care.

Hyattsville: https://www.mystandrew.org/preschool/
College Park: http://www.ucnskids.org/tuition-and-fees
Beltsville: https://www.hopechristianacademy.org/apply/tuition-costs
Laurel: https://christianacademyoflaurel.org/admissions/
Laurel: https://www.care.com/b/l/kristland-family-daycare/laurel-md

All of the above are no more than $600/month and between $5K-7K per student per year. The family that had two for about $10K had their younger 2 year old only in the 3-day a week program with grandmother watching him one day a week and Mom on a 4x10 hour day schedule watching him one day a week.

This is the cheapest I found in Silver Spring ($8400/year for 1st child, $7500/year for sibling discount)
https://fcs.school/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Financial-Info-Sheet-2019.20-updated-1.pdf