Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez if $220K is UMC then I must be rich and never got the memo

$220K is solidly UMC if you aren't stupid with money.

You don't DESERVE or are ENTITLED to fancy vacations. If you lease a high-end car, you're a fool. Save up the money for that kitchen remodel first, before you pull the trigger. Smart people at any income level live within their means and don't pretend to be what they're not.

If you don't think $220K is UMC, you don't know how money or the real world work, period.

NP. Rage much?

NP, I think PP is spot on.

It's UMC in other parts of the country. In DC it's solidly middle class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading all of this, just wanted to share the advice my firm’s free PWM advisor told me re:loans. Paying them off before investing in anything (a house, equities, even my 401k) is not a choice. Because, at the end of the day, paying them off IS an investment, in and of itself. Every cent I pay towards them now, is multiple more cents I won’t pay down the line.

He told me that I cannot truly worry about anything outside of an emergency fund before wiping these out. Sorry if totally off topic, but the reframing (paying off loans = investing) really helped me jumpstart getting serious about getting them down ASAP.

OP here, that is a great way to look at loans you are able to pay off but not really applicable to my situation. My large loans were in negative amortization for 2 years before I made a decent salary making my loans more a loss I need to shield from liability. So instead I purchased a townhouse which DH and I can afford. I titled it in a way where if we default on our student loans our creditors will only be able to garnish our wages if it ever came to that. Not a big deal at all to pay a 15% garnishment as it's far lower than my actual payment.

You are a piece of work, OP. I truly hope younger people read this entire thread as a cautionary tale.

Let's just say I learned a lot during my private practice days helping people with "debt modifications" and collections defense.

This is why they need to include a basic life finances class in school. OP is out of her mind.

DP. Tell us how this works out badly for the OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course I'm not going to declare bankruptcy. For one, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Second, I have no other financial problems other than a huge student loan balance. I will say that if I could jettison my student loans in bankruptcy I would totally do it and restart my financial life from zero.

And that is why the government doesn't allow this. Everyone who just graduated from college/grad school with no assets would simply declare bankruptcy. They'd have nothing to lose. It would be unsustainable, which is why the government can't afford to change this rule.

I personallly think public service loan forgiveness should be for state schools only and repayment capped at a reasonable amount. You made a lot of bad decisions OP.

Capping student loan forgiveness or making me personally responsible for the huge amount of student loans really won't solve any problems. Obviously mine aren't going to be paid back and I actually do have a HHI of $220k. However, law school tuitions have actually gone up since I left and the schools are not hurting for applicants. For example: https://www.dnj.com/story/news/local/schools/mtsu/2018/10/18/mtsu-valparaiso-law-school-denied-add-no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/

In that article, a law school with a less than stellar reputation tried to talk a state college in "Middle Tennessee" to move the law school on their campus. Consultants found that taking on the law school would produce ZERO value for the citizens of Tennessee and declined to take it on yet the newspaper quoted several low-income students complaining about how they were all set on going to that law school to make the big bucks. Do you think those kids would pay back $300k student loans? Do you think those kids have a grasp on student loan forgiveness or even what $50k/semester tuition even means? I guarantee the law school would allow them to take on that debt with nothing more than an electronic signature and would happily distribute the government cheese to their bottom tier faculty, admin, and well stocked law library. I hope a lot of you remember my thread when the national student loan debt surpasses $5 trillion and the next person posts about their $900k student loans.

OP, you should stop posting because every time you post you sound dumber and less sympathetic. My DH attended a top 10 private law school with no scholarship or parental help. He had a working spouse (me) who was bringing in money, not also accruing debt at the same time. He borrowed tuition only (I paid the household bills and we lived frugally) and because he was a good student he was a summer associate for two summers and put that money towards tuition the following year to reduce his borrowing further.

THEN, he went into BigLaw and only left when he could command a top salary in house.

You made dumb decision after dumb decision but somehow think “the system” is to blame, not you. I do not feel sorry for you, nor any of these other idiots with massive student debt getting articles written about them.

Honey, I really don't care that your husband used his highest earning years to pay off his student loans before moving down to an in-house position. Are you nervous he's about to be laid off since he's in a zero value add department? I live around people like you and it's not a lifestyle worth bragging about. Save your judgment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading all of this, just wanted to share the advice my firm’s free PWM advisor told me re:loans. Paying them off before investing in anything (a house, equities, even my 401k) is not a choice. Because, at the end of the day, paying them off IS an investment, in and of itself. Every cent I pay towards them now, is multiple more cents I won’t pay down the line.

He told me that I cannot truly worry about anything outside of an emergency fund before wiping these out. Sorry if totally off topic, but the reframing (paying off loans = investing) really helped me jumpstart getting serious about getting them down ASAP.

OP here, that is a great way to look at loans you are able to pay off but not really applicable to my situation. My large loans were in negative amortization for 2 years before I made a decent salary making my loans more a loss I need to shield from liability. So instead I purchased a townhouse which DH and I can afford. I titled it in a way where if we default on our student loans our creditors will only be able to garnish our wages if it ever came to that. Not a big deal at all to pay a 15% garnishment as it's far lower than my actual payment.

You are a piece of work, OP. I truly hope younger people read this entire thread as a cautionary tale.

Let's just say I learned a lot during my private practice days helping people with "debt modifications" and collections defense.

This is why they need to include a basic life finances class in school. OP is out of her mind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP, you should stop posting because every time you post you sound dumber and less sympathetic. My DH attended a top 10 private law school with no scholarship or parental help. He had a working spouse (me) who was bringing in money, not also accruing debt at the same time. He borrowed tuition only (I paid the household bills and we lived frugally) and because he was a good student he was a summer associate for two summers and put that money towards tuition the following year to reduce his borrowing further.

THEN, he went into BigLaw and only left when he could command a top salary in house.

You made dumb decision after dumb decision but somehow think “the system” is to blame, not you. I do not feel sorry for you, nor any of these other idiots with massive student debt getting articles written about them.

Honey, I really don't care that your husband used his highest earning years to pay off his student loans before moving down to an in-house position. Are you nervous he's about to be laid off since he's in a zero value add department? I live around people like you and it's not a lifestyle worth bragging about. Save your judgment.

Wow, she's nasty. Is this OP??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP, you should stop posting because every time you post you sound dumber and less sympathetic. My DH attended a top 10 private law school with no scholarship or parental help. He had a working spouse (me) who was bringing in money, not also accruing debt at the same time. He borrowed tuition only (I paid the household bills and we lived frugally) and because he was a good student he was a summer associate for two summers and put that money towards tuition the following year to reduce his borrowing further.

THEN, he went into BigLaw and only left when he could command a top salary in house.

You made dumb decision after dumb decision but somehow think “the system” is to blame, not you. I do not feel sorry for you, nor any of these other idiots with massive student debt getting articles written about them.

Honey, I really don't care that your husband used his highest earning years to pay off his student loans before moving down to an in-house position. Are you nervous he's about to be laid off since he's in a zero value add department? I live around people like you and it's not a lifestyle worth bragging about. Save your judgment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course I'm not going to declare bankruptcy. For one, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Second, I have no other financial problems other than a huge student loan balance. I will say that if I could jettison my student loans in bankruptcy I would totally do it and restart my financial life from zero.

And that is why the government doesn't allow this. Everyone who just graduated from college/grad school with no assets would simply declare bankruptcy. They'd have nothing to lose. It would be unsustainable, which is why the government can't afford to change this rule.

I personallly think public service loan forgiveness should be for state schools only and repayment capped at a reasonable amount. You made a lot of bad decisions OP.

Capping student loan forgiveness or making me personally responsible for the huge amount of student loans really won't solve any problems. Obviously mine aren't going to be paid back and I actually do have a HHI of $220k. However, law school tuitions have actually gone up since I left and the schools are not hurting for applicants. For example: https://www.dnj.com/story/news/local/schools/mtsu/2018/10/18/mtsu-valparaiso-law-school-denied-add-no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/

In that article, a law school with a less than stellar reputation tried to talk a state college in "Middle Tennessee" to move the law school on their campus. Consultants found that taking on the law school would produce ZERO value for the citizens of Tennessee and declined to take it on yet the newspaper quoted several low-income students complaining about how they were all set on going to that law school to make the big bucks. Do you think those kids would pay back $300k student loans? Do you think those kids have a grasp on student loan forgiveness or even what $50k/semester tuition even means? I guarantee the law school would allow them to take on that debt with nothing more than an electronic signature and would happily distribute the government cheese to their bottom tier faculty, admin, and well stocked law library. I hope a lot of you remember my thread when the national student loan debt surpasses $5 trillion and the next person posts about their $900k student loans.

Are you forgetting that law school is a CHOICE? You speak as if everyone is forced into taking out 500K+ of loans. Newsflash - they're not. They're free to choose a different career path.

I decided to go to med school. I graduated in 2000 and am a few months away from paying off my 170K loan. I work in public health (10+ years) but didn't qualify for loan forgiveness. No biggie. I'm about to pay them off, through tons of hard work (extra jobs, volunteering in clinical trials, getting bank account and credit card bonuses, selling our cars for cheaper ones, etc). Honestly, that should be how it is. It was my choice to take out the loans, my duty to pay them.

Now my husband went to work in the gov't right out of undergrad. Had them pay for his two graduate degrees. He has no personal debt. Once again, his choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course I'm not going to declare bankruptcy. For one, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Second, I have no other financial problems other than a huge student loan balance. I will say that if I could jettison my student loans in bankruptcy I would totally do it and restart my financial life from zero.

And that is why the government doesn't allow this. Everyone who just graduated from college/grad school with no assets would simply declare bankruptcy. They'd have nothing to lose. It would be unsustainable, which is why the government can't afford to change this rule.

I personallly think public service loan forgiveness should be for state schools only and repayment capped at a reasonable amount. You made a lot of bad decisions OP.

Capping student loan forgiveness or making me personally responsible for the huge amount of student loans really won't solve any problems. Obviously mine aren't going to be paid back and I actually do have a HHI of $220k. However, law school tuitions have actually gone up since I left and the schools are not hurting for applicants. For example: https://www.dnj.com/story/news/local/schools/mtsu/2018/10/18/mtsu-valparaiso-law-school-denied-add-no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/

In that article, a law school with a less than stellar reputation tried to talk a state college in "Middle Tennessee" to move the law school on their campus. Consultants found that taking on the law school would produce ZERO value for the citizens of Tennessee and declined to take it on yet the newspaper quoted several low-income students complaining about how they were all set on going to that law school to make the big bucks. Do you think those kids would pay back $300k student loans? Do you think those kids have a grasp on student loan forgiveness or even what $50k/semester tuition even means? I guarantee the law school would allow them to take on that debt with nothing more than an electronic signature and would happily distribute the government cheese to their bottom tier faculty, admin, and well stocked law library. I hope a lot of you remember my thread when the national student loan debt surpasses $5 trillion and the next person posts about their $900k student loans.

I have read a lot of posts on DCUM over the years, but I’ve never seen a poster so arrogant and irresponsible. It’s frankly shocking how little you care about how your life impacts others. I feel sorry for your family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course I'm not going to declare bankruptcy. For one, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Second, I have no other financial problems other than a huge student loan balance. I will say that if I could jettison my student loans in bankruptcy I would totally do it and restart my financial life from zero.

And that is why the government doesn't allow this. Everyone who just graduated from college/grad school with no assets would simply declare bankruptcy. They'd have nothing to lose. It would be unsustainable, which is why the government can't afford to change this rule.

I personallly think public service loan forgiveness should be for state schools only and repayment capped at a reasonable amount. You made a lot of bad decisions OP.

Capping student loan forgiveness or making me personally responsible for the huge amount of student loans really won't solve any problems. Obviously mine aren't going to be paid back and I actually do have a HHI of $220k. However, law school tuitions have actually gone up since I left and the schools are not hurting for applicants. For example: https://www.dnj.com/story/news/local/schools/mtsu/2018/10/18/mtsu-valparaiso-law-school-denied-add-no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/

In that article, a law school with a less than stellar reputation tried to talk a state college in "Middle Tennessee" to move the law school on their campus. Consultants found that taking on the law school would produce ZERO value for the citizens of Tennessee and declined to take it on yet the newspaper quoted several low-income students complaining about how they were all set on going to that law school to make the big bucks. Do you think those kids would pay back $300k student loans? Do you think those kids have a grasp on student loan forgiveness or even what $50k/semester tuition even means? I guarantee the law school would allow them to take on that debt with nothing more than an electronic signature and would happily distribute the government cheese to their bottom tier faculty, admin, and well stocked law library. I hope a lot of you remember my thread when the national student loan debt surpasses $5 trillion and the next person posts about their $900k student loans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course I'm not going to declare bankruptcy. For one, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Second, I have no other financial problems other than a huge student loan balance. I will say that if I could jettison my student loans in bankruptcy I would totally do it and restart my financial life from zero.

And that is why the government doesn't allow this. Everyone who just graduated from college/grad school with no assets would simply declare bankruptcy. They'd have nothing to lose. It would be unsustainable, which is why the government can't afford to change this rule.

I personallly think public service loan forgiveness should be for state schools only and repayment capped at a reasonable amount. You made a lot of bad decisions OP.

Capping student loan forgiveness or making me personally responsible for the huge amount of student loans really won't solve any problems. Obviously mine aren't going to be paid back and I actually do have a HHI of $220k. However, law school tuitions have actually gone up since I left and the schools are not hurting for applicants. For example: https://www.dnj.com/story/news/local/schools/mtsu/2018/10/18/mtsu-valparaiso-law-school-denied-add-no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/

In that article, a law school with a less than stellar reputation tried to talk a state college in "Middle Tennessee" to move the law school on their campus. Consultants found that taking on the law school would produce ZERO value for the citizens of Tennessee and declined to take it on yet the newspaper quoted several low-income students complaining about how they were all set on going to that law school to make the big bucks. Do you think those kids would pay back $300k student loans? Do you think those kids have a grasp on student loan forgiveness or even what $50k/semester tuition even means? I guarantee the law school would allow them to take on that debt with nothing more than an electronic signature and would happily distribute the government cheese to their bottom tier faculty, admin, and well stocked law library. I hope a lot of you remember my thread when the national student loan debt surpasses $5 trillion and the next person posts about their $900k student loans.

OP, you should stop posting because every time you post you sound dumber and less sympathetic. My DH attended a top 10 private law school with no scholarship or parental help. He had a working spouse (me) who was bringing in money, not also accruing debt at the same time. He borrowed tuition only (I paid the household bills and we lived frugally) and because he was a good student he was a summer associate for two summers and put that money towards tuition the following year to reduce his borrowing further.

THEN, he went into BigLaw and only left when he could command a top salary in house.

You made dumb decision after dumb decision but somehow think “the system” is to blame, not you. I do not feel sorry for you, nor any of these other idiots with massive student debt getting articles written about them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course I'm not going to declare bankruptcy. For one, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Second, I have no other financial problems other than a huge student loan balance. I will say that if I could jettison my student loans in bankruptcy I would totally do it and restart my financial life from zero.

And that is why the government doesn't allow this. Everyone who just graduated from college/grad school with no assets would simply declare bankruptcy. They'd have nothing to lose. It would be unsustainable, which is why the government can't afford to change this rule.

I personallly think public service loan forgiveness should be for state schools only and repayment capped at a reasonable amount. You made a lot of bad decisions OP.

Capping student loan forgiveness or making me personally responsible for the huge amount of student loans really won't solve any problems. Obviously mine aren't going to be paid back and I actually do have a HHI of $220k. However, law school tuitions have actually gone up since I left and the schools are not hurting for applicants. For example: https://www.dnj.com/story/news/local/schools/mtsu/2018/10/18/mtsu-valparaiso-law-school-denied-add-no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/

In that article, a law school with a less than stellar reputation tried to talk a state college in "Middle Tennessee" to move the law school on their campus. Consultants found that taking on the law school would produce ZERO value for the citizens of Tennessee and declined to take it on yet the newspaper quoted several low-income students complaining about how they were all set on going to that law school to make the big bucks. Do you think those kids would pay back $300k student loans? Do you think those kids have a grasp on student loan forgiveness or even what $50k/semester tuition even means? I guarantee the law school would allow them to take on that debt with nothing more than an electronic signature and would happily distribute the government cheese to their bottom tier faculty, admin, and well stocked law library. I hope a lot of you remember my thread when the national student loan debt surpasses $5 trillion and the next person posts about their $900k student loans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

+1 are you underwater on the house? on the green side, you should be soft-counting the value of your house. I say soft-counting because eggs and hatching and all, but it is a more realistic financial picture.

OP here, you both identified why I am in the legal field working in a non-financial practice! I am not underwater on my house but only 2 years into a 30 year mortgage. Taking the mortgage and equity out of the picture would put me at less than negative half a million. That certainly seems more surmountable even if it takes a decade or so.

To the others offering lifestyle advice: thank you, but I am learning as I go. I don't have major credit card debt now as I learned that lesson carrying maxed out credit cards through undergrad and law school. I have no idea how griping about owning a townhouse is "keeping up with the Joneses" or living beyond my means as we are very comfortable even after replacing the HVAC and poor DIY renovations from the previous cheap skate owner. Again, I am just asking when the upper middle class life, which is obviously a status worth striving for here in the US, becomes comfortable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course I'm not going to declare bankruptcy. For one, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Second, I have no other financial problems other than a huge student loan balance. I will say that if I could jettison my student loans in bankruptcy I would totally do it and restart my financial life from zero.

And that is why the government doesn't allow this. Everyone who just graduated from college/grad school with no assets would simply declare bankruptcy. They'd have nothing to lose. It would be unsustainable, which is why the government can't afford to change this rule.

I personallly think public service loan forgiveness should be for state schools only and repayment capped at a reasonable amount. You made a lot of bad decisions OP.

Capping student loan forgiveness or making me personally responsible for the huge amount of student loans really won't solve any problems. Obviously mine aren't going to be paid back and I actually do have a HHI of $220k. However, law school tuitions have actually gone up since I left and the schools are not hurting for applicants. For example: https://www.dnj.com/story/news/local/schools/mtsu/2018/10/18/mtsu-valparaiso-law-school-denied-add-no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/

In that article, a law school with a less than stellar reputation tried to talk a state college in "Middle Tennessee" to move the law school on their campus. Consultants found that taking on the law school would produce ZERO value for the citizens of Tennessee and declined to take it on yet the newspaper quoted several low-income students complaining about how they were all set on going to that law school to make the big bucks. Do you think those kids would pay back $300k student loans? Do you think those kids have a grasp on student loan forgiveness or even what $50k/semester tuition even means? I guarantee the law school would allow them to take on that debt with nothing more than an electronic signature and would happily distribute the government cheese to their bottom tier faculty, admin, and well stocked law library. I hope a lot of you remember my thread when the national student loan debt surpasses $5 trillion and the next person posts about their $900k student loans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course I'm not going to declare bankruptcy. For one, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Second, I have no other financial problems other than a huge student loan balance. I will say that if I could jettison my student loans in bankruptcy I would totally do it and restart my financial life from zero.

And that is why the government doesn't allow this. Everyone who just graduated from college/grad school with no assets would simply declare bankruptcy. They'd have nothing to lose. It would be unsustainable, which is why the government can't afford to change this rule.

I personallly think public service loan forgiveness should be for state schools only and repayment capped at a reasonable amount. You made a lot of bad decisions OP.