Anonymous
Post 07/01/2018 15:49     Subject: AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
This is why you are not in admissions. Sidwell classes are beyond rigor and not even close to an AP public school. Signed not a Sidwell parent because the school is too much work and stress
Anonymous
Post 07/01/2018 14:29     Subject: Re:AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
i have to admit i do not get the backlash against AP classes. If I was in charge of college admissions and I had two kids, one of whom went to Sidwell Friends and took no APs, and one who went to a public high school and took a slew of AP classes (and did well on the AP tests), I'd be inclined to take the public-school kid.
Anonymous
Post 07/01/2018 10:19     Subject: Re:AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
It is not a "reality check" - it is an arbitrary exam that is easily gamed. And a waste of time. Good riddance.


So AP Calculus, for example, is "arbitrary" and "easily gamed"? What does that even mean? Cliches about "rote memorization" (How does one "memorize" math? Or English literature?) and "teaching to the test" (It is much easier for a teacher to "teach to" a test he or she will write him or herself than to "teach to" an AP he or she will never see) are silly enough, but these claims are utterly incomprehensible.

As I guess others have already noted, the key benefit of AP exams for students from Sidwell, St. Albans, etc., is not the possibility of saving money but rather the possibility of skipping introductory courses once at college. If you plan on majoring in history and have already taken U.S. history at Sidwell, why get stuck retaking "Intro to U.S. History" your first year of college if you can skip to higher level courses simply by showing a 4 or 5 on the AP? I would have thought retaking was the "waste of time."

(And no, you can't skip intro level college courses just because you were privileged enough to go to Sidwell or St. Albans. You actually have to prove you have mastered the material. Yup, just like a middle-class public school student.)
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2018 23:23     Subject: AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
So true!
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2018 22:40     Subject: AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
It is not a "reality check" - it is an arbitrary exam that is easily gamed. And a waste of time. Good riddance.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2018 18:43     Subject: AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
a bit contrarian view here. I get that private school teachers can go deeper, be more creative, etc. if they are not stuck with the AP curriculum. And some teachers do that well. But -- some really do not. And there is no reason that kids in private AP classes have to be limited to the test. My kids took APs at a private and they did all sorts of things not required by the AP curriculum -- in addition to covering the AP material. The benefit of at least some APs (or IBs) is that it sets a standard for material that should be covered. Private schools would much prefer that you "trust them" -- and parents are inclined to do so -- but APs offer an independent reality check to some extent. Of course, there is too much emphasis on them, but that is not a reason to abolish them. And not all APs are equally difficult. In public schools, kids take APs now as if they were the "honors" classes of the non-AP past. The better approach would be for college admissions offices to adopt some standard that they will not look favorably upon course loads requiring more than X hours of homework per week. Schools -- public and private -- can then estimate the number of hours of homework on average of a given class (AP and non-AP). That is what would start to give kids back a balanced life without sacrificing college admissions options.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2018 05:45     Subject: AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
I am a huge fan of this. Our kids' school plans to eventually rename all AP courses to honors, and eliminate the requirement to take the AP test, though its still ok to take it.

In return they can freshen up the subject matter and don't need to be a slave to the AP course audits by the oversight group.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2018 04:21     Subject: AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
I wouldn’t worry about the AP exams causing much stress. My son did study on his own for Government but besides that did not prepare for the APs and got excellent grades as did most of his friends. The classes at Sidwell are so taught so well that it doesn’t take the kids much extra effort to do well on the APs. Likewise I wouldn’t stress about SAT pre. Most Sidwell kids do fine the first time they take the test and don’t prep except reading the book for an hour or so. It’s the Sidwell classes themselves that are the stressors. They are really demanding, plus the decisions on where to apply to college including visiting some campuses take a lot of time.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2018 01:13     Subject: Re:AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
PP, your experience suggests that my kids, currently at SFS MS, may also feel pressured and choose to take the APs “for their own reasons,” only now with even less help from their teachers. So the AP arms race — and related stress — will continue. Only now, all SFS and DC pvt school kids will need to take expensive supplemental classes on top of their rigorous school schedule. So much for “equity” and “ lower stress”.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2018 16:12     Subject: Re:AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, we got Sidwell's letter this morning. We support the decision, not that Sidwell emphasized the APs much anyway.


It would have been nice if Sidwell consulted the parent and student bodies before deciding —important constitutents, don’t you think?


This decision really doesn’t affect Sidwell because they have never offered many APs. Kids take the tests if they want too, but the US classes are very rigorous so APs aren’t necessary.

Not true. Either you did not see course curriculum or your kids don't take the most rigorous courses offered by the school. Writing APs is required for some courses and pass/fail is not allowed in those courses, my understanding.


My kids did take mostly the most rigorous classes. It’s been a couple years, but I only remember their teachers in math and advanced bio asking them to take the APs. They took Government’s, history, English etc, but for their own purposes. I don’t believe they were required. I really doubt doing away with AP at Sidwell will make much of a difference because the teachers use their own approaches and don’t follow the AP
curricula.










Anonymous
Post 06/26/2018 16:05     Subject: Re:AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
Anonymous wrote:Some private school parents here claim that their children's school teaches courses above AP course level and denigrate public school AP course teaching as prepping for the test and students rote learn. My DC goes to MCPS (non-magnet). I looked at Sidwell Friends 9th through 12 grade course curriculum. I am impressed with the elective choices in History and Computer Science areas. But Math, Physics, Chemistry, and Language courses at 11th/12th grade level either say will prepare students for AP exam or actually require students to write AP exams (in other words they are the level of AP courses in Public Schools but not higher). In fact, I am confident, my DC will have studied higher level Math and Science and equivalent level Language, History (albeit not with such rich choice of history electives to chose from) compared to Sidwell Friends curriculum. As for English language classes, I don't have sufficient information to form an opinion.

I am happy with the education my DC is getting at non-magnet MCPS. I am glad private school parents are happy with their DCs' education but there is no reason or rationale to put down public school education.


I have had kids at both Sidwell and MCPS schools and your are simply incorrect. English and social science classes at Sidwell are much more writing intensive and taught st a higher level. Foreign language classes are more advanced and many of the Sidwell kids study abroad for a summer or semester and are fluent. Lastly, the math and science curricula are more thorough and derive much of their rigor from working from first principles. I am not anti MCPS and believe my oldest was well prepared for college, but it is totally misleading to compare Sidwell unfavorably with MCPS. Is it fair that some kids benefit from elite privates and others do not based mostly on parents’ income? No it isn’t. ( Mine get FA so we are extremely fortunate) But to say the two learning experiences are equal is just wishful thinking. Teachers at Sidwell are able to teach a different level because of very small classes, a selective student body, and becuase they don’t have to worry about testing.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2018 16:01     Subject: Re:AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, we got Sidwell's letter this morning. We support the decision, not that Sidwell emphasized the APs much anyway.


It would have been nice if Sidwell consulted the parent and student bodies before deciding —important constitutents, don’t you think?


This decision really doesn’t affect Sidwell because they have never offered many APs. Kids take the tests if they want too, but the US classes are very rigorous so APs aren’t necessary.

Not true. Either you did not see course curriculum or your kids don't take the most rigorous courses offered by the school. Writing APs is required for some courses and pass/fail is not allowed in those courses, my understanding.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2018 15:45     Subject: Re:AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, we got Sidwell's letter this morning. We support the decision, not that Sidwell emphasized the APs much anyway.


It would have been nice if Sidwell consulted the parent and student bodies before deciding —important constitutents, don’t you think?


This decision really doesn’t affect Sidwell because they have never offered many APs. Kids take the tests if they want too, but the US classes are very rigorous so APs aren’t necessary.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2018 11:06     Subject: Re:AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Some private school parents here claim that their children's school teaches courses above AP course level and denigrate public school AP course teaching as prepping for the test and students rote learn. My DC goes to MCPS (non-magnet). I looked at Sidwell Friends 9th through 12 grade course curriculum. I am impressed with the elective choices in History and Computer Science areas. But Math, Physics, Chemistry, and Language courses at 11th/12th grade level either say will prepare students for AP exam or actually require students to write AP exams (in other words they are the level of AP courses in Public Schools but not higher). In fact, I am confident, my DC will have studied higher level Math and Science and equivalent level Language, History (albeit not with such rich choice of history electives to chose from) compared to Sidwell Friends curriculum. As for English language classes, I don't have sufficient information to form an opinion.

I am happy with the education my DC is getting at non-magnet MCPS. I am glad private school parents are happy with their DCs' education but there is no reason or rationale to put down public school education.


It's really about how MCPS pushes kids to take so many AP courses...starting in freshman year. Unnecessary!! But unfortunately necessary in this situation because these kids are competing against each other for college admissions. This is exactly the reason we chose not to send our kid to a well regarded W school. Not interested in a pressure cooker environment with stressed out kids self medicating and sadly committing suicide. Our private does offer AP courses, but not nearly at the same quantity. Expectations for AP courses at our private are much lower, and kids get into excellent schools regardless. Remember people, you are not competing against kids at other schools...you are competing against your classmates for spots in universities.


Non-magnet MCPS parent here: The truth can't be further from the bolded/underlined statement that MCPS pushes kids to take so many AP courses...starting in freshman year. Our experience at a well regarded W school. When a student moves from 8th to 9th grade, the 8th grade teachers suggest what courses in the core subjects the student may want to register in and may include an AP course. But it is just a suggestion penciled in on a course list sheet. Student and parents can totally override it and write in their own desired courses (eliminating the AP course and instead selecting a lower level course). At no time did the high school counselor, Principal, any STEM subject department head, or any STEM teacher ever forced any AP course to be taken. I only heard we exercise caution, monitor time demand for study considering extra curricular activities DC is involved in, and drop to a lower level course within the drop/change time period, or advised to select a lower level course right at the outset. In fact, at every presentation about next year's planned course offerings the principal and the teachers strongly advise not to succumb to peer pressure (by which what they mean is for a student to not register for AP courses just because friends are registering for them. Based on our personal experience, I have nothing but good things to say about the administration, staff, and teachers' approach to students' course selection. As for why some students take challenging course load it is because they have the capability and they want to challenge themselves. As to why some unfortunate and sad events happen, in my opinion, they are not because of pressure from the school to register for AP courses. The school doesn't pressure students.

All the best to your DCs in their respective schools.


But here's the thing. If a kid has aspirations to go to a top school he MUST stake the extremely challenging AP course load to even be considered based on the fact that he/she will be competing against kids who are doing so AND the fact that these courses are available to them. The college admissions rep looks at the student's course load relative to what is offered to the school. So by just offering these courses to students, the school creates a pressure cooker environment.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2018 11:01     Subject: AP Classes to be Eliminated by 2022
Anonymous wrote:Because admissions officers have said time and again that the key is for students to take them most challenging courses their school offers. This collection of private schools has made that problem go away by simply not offering them. But public school students still have to take them.

That's a terrible misconception. The private school courses - at least at places like Sidwell and STA are all rigorous and competitive and the colleges know it. The reason colleges are moving away from APs is because the high scores are just as likely to be a sign of affluence as strong academics whether the kid comes from a public or private school.


If that were true, then I'd suggest it is a mistake. In schools with large numbers of disadvantaged kids who let all students take AP classes and the SAT for free (DCPS for example), this is a very important way for these kids to show that they have the right stuff for college in spite of their background. When some or all schools take that away, the playing field is tilted against these kids once again.