Anonymous
02/17/2018 08:43
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:The point of the thread is not: do TJ students, on average, go to better schools than kids at the base school. Of course they do. The kids at TJ are universally in at least the top 10% of a very good system.
The question is: are TJ's numbers so good because of the school, or because they grouped all of these smart people in one building.
Answering that question is not easy. What I tried to do is look at the top 10% of the base school. But, some of those kids, possibly half, ended up at TJ already.
But, there is no way to know what an individual would have done had they gone to the base school. I know kids from TJ going to good (but not great) colleges (UC schools other than Berkeley, for example). And I know kids from the base school going to Princeton, Penn, etc.
What is unknown is the effect TJ had in college admissions. Clearly at the very top -- the top 30-50 kids at TJ, it helped. They would have also been in the top 30-50 at the base. The problem with the base (and TJ too) is separating #20 from #2 or #1. These kids probably have nearly straight A's -- the difference in GPA is the number of honors/AP classes. So, if a kid is in band, they can not take as many AP classes as someone not in band (band takes up 1 period in each year which could otherwise be used for AP/Honors). Also, if a kid wan unable to take a class over the summer, that means there are fewer slots during the year. These are factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the student; the schools know that.
At the base school, though, the top 20-30 students do not all get into elite schools. Some might, some won't. But, maybe 5 of them would have been in the top 20-30 students at TJ. Those kids can get into the elites: MIT, Harvard, Princeton, etc. So if you are in that small group, it definitely helps get into the better reputation of college (I can have a whole other argument if that makes a difference, but that is for another thread). Beyond that, the top 50 kids at the base school to just as well and the typical (non-top kid) at TJ. But, the kid from TJ had to work so much harder.
The hard work is a double edged sword. On the one hand, it is a lot more stress which is not good, but they may not be surprised by the work load at college. again the way to understand the impact is to look at the college performance of TJ vs base students, correcting for the difference in average intelligence. I do not have access to the data, though.
Thank you! A voice of reason! I agree with you!
Anonymous
02/17/2018 08:41
Subject: How important is TJ for college?
Comparing one year at TJ to 8 at the base was an attempt to normalize the students based on TJ's admission criteria.
Anonymous
02/17/2018 08:37
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UCLA 89/7
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43
Madison
Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1
Actually, University of California is "Berkeley" not UCLA.
Over what time period are the TJ numbers? One admitted number is in the 1700s. Sorry if this is a dumb question. I don't want to have to read the whole thread to figure this out.
Both are over an 8 year period (2010-17).
Thanks for answering without being snarky
Anonymous
02/17/2018 08:33
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
The point of the thread is not: do TJ students, on average, go to better schools than kids at the base school. Of course they do. The kids at TJ are universally in at least the top 10% of a very good system.
The question is: are TJ's numbers so good because of the school, or because they grouped all of these smart people in one building.
Answering that question is not easy. What I tried to do is look at the top 10% of the base school. But, some of those kids, possibly half, ended up at TJ already.
But, there is no way to know what an individual would have done had they gone to the base school. I know kids from TJ going to good (but not great) colleges (UC schools other than Berkeley, for example). And I know kids from the base school going to Princeton, Penn, etc.
What is unknown is the effect TJ had in college admissions. Clearly at the very top -- the top 30-50 kids at TJ, it helped. They would have also been in the top 30-50 at the base. The problem with the base (and TJ too) is separating #20 from #2 or #1. These kids probably have nearly straight A's -- the difference in GPA is the number of honors/AP classes. So, if a kid is in band, they can not take as many AP classes as someone not in band (band takes up 1 period in each year which could otherwise be used for AP/Honors). Also, if a kid wan unable to take a class over the summer, that means there are fewer slots during the year. These are factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the student; the schools know that.
At the base school, though, the top 20-30 students do not all get into elite schools. Some might, some won't. But, maybe 5 of them would have been in the top 20-30 students at TJ. Those kids can get into the elites: MIT, Harvard, Princeton, etc. So if you are in that small group, it definitely helps get into the better reputation of college (I can have a whole other argument if that makes a difference, but that is for another thread). Beyond that, the top 50 kids at the base school to just as well and the typical (non-top kid) at TJ. But, the kid from TJ had to work so much harder.
The hard work is a double edged sword. On the one hand, it is a lot more stress which is not good, but they may not be surprised by the work load at college. again the way to understand the impact is to look at the college performance of TJ vs base students, correcting for the difference in average intelligence. I do not have access to the data, though.
The question is: are TJ's numbers so good because of the school, or because they grouped all of these smart people in one building.
Answering that question is not easy. What I tried to do is look at the top 10% of the base school. But, some of those kids, possibly half, ended up at TJ already.
But, there is no way to know what an individual would have done had they gone to the base school. I know kids from TJ going to good (but not great) colleges (UC schools other than Berkeley, for example). And I know kids from the base school going to Princeton, Penn, etc.
What is unknown is the effect TJ had in college admissions. Clearly at the very top -- the top 30-50 kids at TJ, it helped. They would have also been in the top 30-50 at the base. The problem with the base (and TJ too) is separating #20 from #2 or #1. These kids probably have nearly straight A's -- the difference in GPA is the number of honors/AP classes. So, if a kid is in band, they can not take as many AP classes as someone not in band (band takes up 1 period in each year which could otherwise be used for AP/Honors). Also, if a kid wan unable to take a class over the summer, that means there are fewer slots during the year. These are factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the student; the schools know that.
At the base school, though, the top 20-30 students do not all get into elite schools. Some might, some won't. But, maybe 5 of them would have been in the top 20-30 students at TJ. Those kids can get into the elites: MIT, Harvard, Princeton, etc. So if you are in that small group, it definitely helps get into the better reputation of college (I can have a whole other argument if that makes a difference, but that is for another thread). Beyond that, the top 50 kids at the base school to just as well and the typical (non-top kid) at TJ. But, the kid from TJ had to work so much harder.
The hard work is a double edged sword. On the one hand, it is a lot more stress which is not good, but they may not be surprised by the work load at college. again the way to understand the impact is to look at the college performance of TJ vs base students, correcting for the difference in average intelligence. I do not have access to the data, though.
Anonymous
02/16/2018 21:23
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Over what time period are the TJ numbers? One admitted number is in the 1700s. Sorry if this is a dumb question. I don't want to have to read the whole thread to figure this out.
over 8 years if you read the previous page
Anonymous
02/16/2018 21:21
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UCLA 89/7
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43
Madison
Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1
Actually, University of California is "Berkeley" not UCLA.
Over what time period are the TJ numbers? One admitted number is in the 1700s. Sorry if this is a dumb question. I don't want to have to read the whole thread to figure this out.
Both are over an 8 year period (2010-17).
Anonymous
02/16/2018 21:19
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:[
You are wrong.
Another underwhelming post. You are soon to be voted off the island.
Anonymous
02/16/2018 20:28
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UCLA 89/7
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43
Madison
Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1
Actually, University of California is "Berkeley" not UCLA.
Over what time period are the TJ numbers? One admitted number is in the 1700s. Sorry if this is a dumb question. I don't want to have to read the whole thread to figure this out.
Anonymous
02/16/2018 19:34
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:Interesting that roughly 2/3 of Madison grads that get in attend UVA while only 39% of admitted TJ grads do. I would assume this is b/c many TJ grads either get into better schools (UVA as the safety school) or get scholarship pkgs that make other colleges more attractive.
What an *hole. Only an idiot would compare results from a selective magnet school with an open admissions public school.
Anonymous
02/16/2018 19:25
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Interesting that roughly 2/3 of Madison grads that get in attend UVA while only 39% of admitted TJ grads do. I would assume this is b/c many TJ grads either get into better schools (UVA as the safety school) or get scholarship pkgs that make other colleges more attractive.
UVA is safety for TJ and reach for many Madison kids.
Groundhog Day. For the top 15% at Madison, UVA is not a reach. Also, for average kids at TJ, UVA is not a safety.
Anonymous
02/16/2018 18:32
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UCLA 89/7
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43
Madison
Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1
Actually, University of California is "Berkeley" not UCLA.
Anonymous
02/16/2018 18:30
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:Interesting that roughly 2/3 of Madison grads that get in attend UVA while only 39% of admitted TJ grads do. I would assume this is b/c many TJ grads either get into better schools (UVA as the safety school) or get scholarship pkgs that make other colleges more attractive.
UVA is safety for TJ and reach for many Madison kids.
Anonymous
02/16/2018 18:30
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:
TJHSST
Brown 98 admitted 37 attended
UCLA 89/7
Carnegie Mellon 364/120
Univ of Chicago 109/43
Columbia Univ 91/43
Cornell 292/130
Dartmouth 67/27
Duke 193/75
Georgetown 102/31
Ga Tech 300/37
Harvard 42/32
Harvey Mudd 25/5
Johns Hopkins 69/18
MIT 133/103
UPenn 88/45
Princeton 115/69
RPI 187/29
USC 76/18
Stanford 84/60
Va Tech 1268/254
UVA 1745/683
Wash U 139/36
William & Mary 1417/401
Yale 82/43
Madison
Brown University: 6 6 4
University of California 11 4
Carnegie Mellon University 24 3
University of Chicago 11 7
Columbia University 6 7
Cornell University 29 15
Dartmouth College 7 3
Duke University 16 9
Georgetown University 25 15
Georgia Institute of Technology 48 10
Harvard University 3 2
Harvey Mudd College 2 0
Johns Hopkins University 17 4
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 3 3
Northwestern University 11 2
University of Pennsylvania 7 3
Princeton University 9 7
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 28 7
University of Southern California 19 6
Stanford University 6 5
Virginia Tech 728 296
University of Virginia 414 265
Washington University in St. Louis 23 6
College of William and Mary 330 135
Yale University 2 1
Anonymous
02/16/2018 18:24
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Anonymous wrote:Interesting that roughly 2/3 of Madison grads that get in attend UVA while only 39% of admitted TJ grads do. I would assume this is b/c many TJ grads either get into better schools (UVA as the safety school) or get scholarship pkgs that make other colleges more attractive.
Exactly!
Anonymous
02/16/2018 17:45
Subject: Re:How important is TJ for college?
Interesting that roughly 2/3 of Madison grads that get in attend UVA while only 39% of admitted TJ grads do. I would assume this is b/c many TJ grads either get into better schools (UVA as the safety school) or get scholarship pkgs that make other colleges more attractive.