Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not be PC to the liberals, but these Dreamers need to KNOW THEIR PLACE. Their parents snuck them in illegally, and they have been permitted to remain here and get a free K-12 education, thanks to to the good graces of Americans. Instead of showing appropriate appreciation - yes, appreciation! - this group of people, who graduate from college at a lower rate than Americans, showed nothing but disrespect and venom toward the very congressperson who is fighting on their behalf.

They came across as spoiled brats. I would suggest they organize themselves and elect a spokesperson, who should then write a letter to Congress thanking Americans for their generosity thus far and expressing appreciation for any forthcoming consideration on their behalf. They should include a mention of the wonderful opportunities they have been given here and pledge to be responsible, contributing members of society.

That works much better than saying " you f'ing a-holes better let us stay here, along with our parents!"

Where are you ancestors from, PP? Maybe they are from a shithole country and you need to know your place too.

See, I can be non PC too.

You liberal idiots can be so dense. They need to know their place because they are not here legally. They are GUESTS and need to show appreciation.

I on the other hand am descended from people who followed the law in immigrating (from 1st world countries) and thus I am a citizen, as were they. Illegals and citizens are not the same, and liberals need to understand that their deranged insistence that illegals are every bit as entitled to be here as citizens is what cost them the election.

Long time Conservative here. Lets get real. First, stop with the "libs" bullshit. "Illegal" immigration has been allowed for decades under multiple administrations. Why? b/c anyone with half a brain knows that immigration, even illegal immigration, is profitable and a net positive to our GDP/economy. The GOP has been fear monger illegal immigrants for years, while they reap the benefits of their cheap labor, taxes, and funding for multitude of special interest groups that make money off of illegal immigrants. Dems claim to stand for comprehensive immigration reform, but they didn't pass one when they had their shot a few years ago. Why? IMO b/c the same big money interests lining the GOP pockets, line theirs as well. So making the immigration debate a purely partisan pissing match is meaningless trolling that needs to end now. We need to own up to the fact that the U.S. as an informal policy has intentionally allowed and benefited from illegal immigration. We used them for our benefit just like they used us for safety and economic prosperity.

With that said, after cutting through the Republican racist dog whistles and Dems head-in-the-sand "we should love immigration" messaging, the real concern to average citizens continues to be to ignored or drowned out: illegal immigration and even elements of legal immigration can be bad for everyday U.S. workers of all skill levels. In addition, illegal immigration of low skilled workers in particular can negatively impact on a local municipal finances. This is especially an issue for state/local municipal services such as LE, foster system, and education.

The solutions to this are varied but the hard-line approach to simply deport millions of illegal immigrants regardless of their situation is not tenable economically and is morally foolish. The impact it would have on our already increasing national debt and on inflation would drive us off an economic cliff, for starters. Employers who rely on illegal immigration will be more likely to automate low skilled or cheap labor work, or eliminate it through innovation before they hire droves of Americans. Hard-line immigration politicians and their donors know this. But it makes for great fundraising and energizing the base.

Specific to Dreamers, a hard-line approach is even more morally bankrupt. We simply cannot deport ppl brought here as minors, nor should we be separating them for their parents or families that are also here illegally. An effective solution is a not a hard-line, but a hard-stop on illegal immigration and significantly diminished role of the USG:
(1) Balance amnesty. On a federal level create a viable path for existing illegal immigrants to become citizens. This could include some kind of tax or fee for a temporary time, and other provisions. This could also exclude repeat or violent criminals.
(2) Cut out the big federal govt. Let states take the lead on new immigration. One-size-fits-all national immigration laws aren't working. Federal reform efforts have repeatedly failed, so why not let states take a crack at it? States experiment with education, welfare and drug policies — immigration should be next. the USG/congress could change the law to grant waivers to for states to do this. These programs can be part of a large comprehensive plan that allows for a path to U.S. citizenship. States can self-regulate the effectiveness of these plans (via multi-state oversight panels). The USG would be primarily used to certify citizenship and/or deport.
(3) Actively enforce new immigration laws. "Illegals" will be deported by USG, no excuses. Refugees/those escaping abusive governments/regimes should be given clear paths through options (1) and (2), assuming caps are not met.
(3) Eliminate the federal minimum wage requirement. Delegate solely to states. This could help blunt some of the impact of the inflation that will occur due to the point (1).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not be PC to the liberals, but these Dreamers need to KNOW THEIR PLACE. Their parents snuck them in illegally, and they have been permitted to remain here and get a free K-12 education, thanks to to the good graces of Americans. Instead of showing appropriate appreciation - yes, appreciation! - this group of people, who graduate from college at a lower rate than Americans, showed nothing but disrespect and venom toward the very congressperson who is fighting on their behalf.

They came across as spoiled brats. I would suggest they organize themselves and elect a spokesperson, who should then write a letter to Congress thanking Americans for their generosity thus far and expressing appreciation for any forthcoming consideration on their behalf. They should include a mention of the wonderful opportunities they have been given here and pledge to be responsible, contributing members of society.

That works much better than saying " you f'ing a-holes better let us stay here, along with our parents!"

Omg yes. The ones on tv are so obnoxious and all speak as if it’s their birth right to be here. One stroke of the pen and you’re out of here so calm yourself and shut the eff up. And no we don’t have to let your parents, aunts/uncles etc stay here nor do we owe any of you citizenship. Be happy if you get a permanent work permit - not even a green card or citizenship.

Signed, White Trash Caucus

Anonymous wrote:The GOP already has a horrible reputation. Most have said they support the Dreamers. It will be time to put up or shut up, keeping in mind that the majority of Americans support amnesty for those who have registered for DACA.

Moderate posting. I don't even think most Democrats are asking for "amnesty" for the DACA kids. I know some Democrats and Republicans have spoken in favor of a "path to citizenship," involving various steps these kids would have to take to keep clean records and show continuous schooling/employment. But many are simply asking that these kids be protected from deportation, even if they remain non-citizens. But what's in the works now is a "path to deportation."

Anonymous wrote:The 'thank you' guy sounds like a complete tool, but he does have a point. Organized DACA protests do tend to come across sometimes as obnoxious (although I might, too, if the stakes were so high). In any case, even the DACA haters might be moved if the dreamers came across as less strident. It could be a good PR move.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So as I see it, between now and Feb 8, McConnell effectively has three choices:

1. Negotiate a package deal with Dems that gives something for everyone. This would include a DACA fix, maybe other immigration reform, border security money, wall money for Trump, etc. Quite frankly, I don't see that there's enough time between now and Feb 8 to cobble together something that makes enough people happy to get this passed.

2. Allow a reasonable DACA fix to come up for a vote, as he promised today. If McConnell allows that, DACA passes. It will have 49 votes from Dems plus several votes from Republicans. I read that something like 56 or 57 Senators are already on record supporting a clean DACA fix.

3. Use a dirty trick to renege on his promise. There are a few ways he could do this. For example, he could refuse to let a clean DACA fix get a vote, and insist that it has to be dirtied up with Tea Party amendments that he knows won't pass. He could simply walk away from his promise and say there's more pressing business. If he does that though, he takes all the heat himself, and Trump will happily push blame on McConnell.

McConnell's no fool, so I suspect he'll do #2. DACA (DREAM Act) will pass the Senate.

So then the questions become:

1. Will Paul Ryan refuse to give a vote in the House? That's a lot harder to do if the Senate has passed it. I'm not sure Paul Ryan wants to become the face of anti-immigration. He's too invested in people liking him. Plus, a lot of Republican House members also want a clean DACA bill they can vote for.

2. If Ryan allows a vote in the House, and DACA passes there too, then the weight is on Trump to veto or not. I've got no idea what he'd do. He's too squishy to judge.

Listen to what McConnell said! He also said increased defense spending, disaster relief funding, and ‘other’ important issues. They will have to sweeten it with what Ryan wants. Cantor was ousted on immigration-Ryan won’t pigeon-hole himself.

What you're describing though is #3 on my list. You're essentially saying McConnell tricked the Democrats with a promise of a vote on DACA, but he really will load that vote up with all sorts of crap that the Democrats will be forced to swallow if they want to save DACA. I view that as just a lawyer-politician way of breaking his promise, by claiming there's a loophole. He knows full well what he promised the Democrats. Using weasel words to escape is just being dirty. Maybe he'll do that. But I think he'd rather drop this shit-bag in Ryan or Trump's lap. McConnell is no anti-immigration hardliner; there's no need for him to sacrifice his credibility a second time.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?440044-21/senators-mcconnell-schumer-discuss-cloture-vote

View this video! Starting at about 1:08, he talks about his intentions. Listen to the ‘also’ part, ending at around 1:50.

He didn’t trick anybody. He clearly stated he will tie a broader agenda to all of it!

Anonymous wrote:Nope. McConnell clearly stated he would allow a vote ONLY IF the government was.open on Feb 8th. If the dems try another shutdown he's off the hook.

Hmm. I didn’t hear McConnell’s statement. But if this is accurate, or at least if he can construe his words to mean this, the Dems could end up at mercy of whether McConnell decides to bring something to a vote or not. And if a vote, whether it actually has in it what Dems want.

The GOP already has a horrible reputation. Most have said they support the Dreamers. It will be time to put up or shut up, keeping in mind that the majority of Americans support amnesty for those who have registered for DACA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So as I see it, between now and Feb 8, McConnell effectively has three choices:

1. Negotiate a package deal with Dems that gives something for everyone. This would include a DACA fix, maybe other immigration reform, border security money, wall money for Trump, etc. Quite frankly, I don't see that there's enough time between now and Feb 8 to cobble together something that makes enough people happy to get this passed.

2. Allow a reasonable DACA fix to come up for a vote, as he promised today. If McConnell allows that, DACA passes. It will have 49 votes from Dems plus several votes from Republicans. I read that something like 56 or 57 Senators are already on record supporting a clean DACA fix.

3. Use a dirty trick to renege on his promise. There are a few ways he could do this. For example, he could refuse to let a clean DACA fix get a vote, and insist that it has to be dirtied up with Tea Party amendments that he knows won't pass. He could simply walk away from his promise and say there's more pressing business. If he does that though, he takes all the heat himself, and Trump will happily push blame on McConnell.

McConnell's no fool, so I suspect he'll do #2. DACA (DREAM Act) will pass the Senate.

So then the questions become:

1. Will Paul Ryan refuse to give a vote in the House? That's a lot harder to do if the Senate has passed it. I'm not sure Paul Ryan wants to become the face of anti-immigration. He's too invested in people liking him. Plus, a lot of Republican House members also want a clean DACA bill they can vote for.

2. If Ryan allows a vote in the House, and DACA passes there too, then the weight is on Trump to veto or not. I've got no idea what he'd do. He's too squishy to judge.

Listen to what McConnell said! He also said increased defense spending, disaster relief funding, and ‘other’ important issues. They will have to sweeten it with what Ryan wants. Cantor was ousted on immigration-Ryan won’t pigeon-hole himself.

What you're describing though is #3 on my list. You're essentially saying McConnell tricked the Democrats with a promise of a vote on DACA, but he really will load that vote up with all sorts of crap that the Democrats will be forced to swallow if they want to save DACA. I view that as just a lawyer-politician way of breaking his promise, by claiming there's a loophole. He knows full well what he promised the Democrats. Using weasel words to escape is just being dirty. Maybe he'll do that. But I think he'd rather drop this shit-bag in Ryan or Trump's lap. McConnell is no anti-immigration hardliner; there's no need for him to sacrifice his credibility a second time.

Anonymous wrote:That why schumer was so angry that he had his little shut down tantrum. He thought he had a handshake deal with trump on immigration last week because he conceded all the important deal points but trump pulled the rug out from under him. He still should have not shut down the govt cause now he gave trump a double victory. Trump really ate Schumers lunch on all this.

You're not seeing it from the perspective of Schumer and the Democrats. From their perspective, if they don't stand up to fight for the DACA kids, then all 800,000 of them are subject to deportation starting in March 2018. All those kids were brought to the United States as minors, and have been in the United States for the majority of their lives (some from before they could even walk or speak), so they know the United States as their only home. Many of them have no family elsewhere. If they're tossed out of this country, they will essentially be on the street in a foreign land. Schumer and the Democrats are the last hope for those DACA kids. So for Schumer and the Democrats, this is a moral stand.

For Trump - and I guess for you - it's not about the people or the issue, but rather about the optics of who "wins" and who "loses." So I guess if that's your perspective, then you can say Trump "wins" this round.

Speaking as an independent moderate though, I respect Schumer and the Dems for taking a principled stand to help the DACA kids. They did all they could, and if they are ultimately unable to help those kids, then I won't fault them. If the public polling is any indicator, then a significant majority of people in the United States also agree with them. So even if Trump "wins" by forcing the DACA kids out of the country, he may well face lots of serious backlash.

Schumer cave in = so much winning!

Anonymous wrote:So as I see it, between now and Feb 8, McConnell effectively has three choices:

1. Negotiate a package deal with Dems that gives something for everyone. This would include a DACA fix, maybe other immigration reform, border security money, wall money for Trump, etc. Quite frankly, I don't see that there's enough time between now and Feb 8 to cobble together something that makes enough people happy to get this passed.

2. Allow a reasonable DACA fix to come up for a vote, as he promised today. If McConnell allows that, DACA passes. It will have 49 votes from Dems plus several votes from Republicans. I read that something like 56 or 57 Senators are already on record supporting a clean DACA fix.

3. Use a dirty trick to renege on his promise. There are a few ways he could do this. For example, he could refuse to let a clean DACA fix get a vote, and insist that it has to be dirtied up with Tea Party amendments that he knows won't pass. He could simply walk away from his promise and say there's more pressing business. If he does that though, he takes all the heat himself, and Trump will happily push blame on McConnell.

McConnell's no fool, so I suspect he'll do #2. DACA (DREAM Act) will pass the Senate.

So then the questions become:

1. Will Paul Ryan refuse to give a vote in the House? That's a lot harder to do if the Senate has passed it. I'm not sure Paul Ryan wants to become the face of anti-immigration. He's too invested in people liking him. Plus, a lot of Republican House members also want a clean DACA bill they can vote for.

2. If Ryan allows a vote in the House, and DACA passes there too, then the weight is on Trump to veto or not. I've got no idea what he'd do. He's too squishy to judge.

Listen to what McConnell said! He also said increased defense spending, disaster relief funding, and ‘other’ important issues. They will have to sweeten it with what Ryan wants. Cantor was ousted on immigration-Ryan won’t pigeon-hole himself.

Anonymous wrote:This will not be PC to the liberals, but these Dreamers need to KNOW THEIR PLACE. Their parents snuck them in illegally, and they have been permitted to remain here and get a free K-12 education, thanks to to the good graces of Americans. Instead of showing appropriate appreciation - yes, appreciation! - this group of people, who graduate from college at a lower rate than Americans, showed nothing but disrespect and venom toward the very congressperson who is fighting on their behalf.

They came across as spoiled brats. I would suggest they organize themselves and elect a spokesperson, who should then write a letter to Congress thanking Americans for their generosity thus far and expressing appreciation for any forthcoming consideration on their behalf. They should include a mention of the wonderful opportunities they have been given here and pledge to be responsible, contributing members of society.

That works much better than saying " you f'ing a-holes better let us stay here, along with our parents!"

Omg yes. The ones on tv are so obnoxious and all speak as if it’s their birth right to be here. One stroke of the pen and you’re out of here so calm yourself and shut the eff up. And no we don’t have to let your parents, aunts/uncles etc stay here nor do we owe any of you citizenship. Be happy if you get a permanent work permit - not even a green card or citizenship.

The 'thank you' guy sounds like a complete tool, but he does have a point. Organized DACA protests do tend to come across sometimes as obnoxious (although I might, too, if the stakes were so high). In any case, even the DACA haters might be moved if the dreamers came across as less strident. It could be a good PR move.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberals got nothing. Chuck caved. LOL

Wrong. They got automatic consideration of their Dreamer bill.

LOL ...... they need 60 votes in the Senate, the House has to approve anything the Senate passes and Trump may veto it if he does not like it. No DACA bill will pass without funding for the wall, dealing with chain migration and doing away with the diversity lottery.

Schumer has already conceded on all those issues.

That is only the start. He will have to give up more. Suckers! Lol

That why schumer was so angry that he had his little shut down tantrum. He thought he had a handshake deal with trump on immigration last week because he conceded all the important deal points but trump pulled the rug out from under him. He still should have not shut down the govt cause now he gave trump a double victory. Trump really ate Schumers lunch on all this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will not be PC to the liberals, but these Dreamers need to KNOW THEIR PLACE. Their parents snuck them in illegally, and they have been permitted to remain here and get a free K-12 education, thanks to to the good graces of Americans. Instead of showing appropriate appreciation - yes, appreciation! - this group of people, who graduate from college at a lower rate than Americans, showed nothing but disrespect and venom toward the very congressperson who is fighting on their behalf.

They came across as spoiled brats. I would suggest they organize themselves and elect a spokesperson, who should then write a letter to Congress thanking Americans for their generosity thus far and expressing appreciation for any forthcoming consideration on their behalf. They should include a mention of the wonderful opportunities they have been given here and pledge to be responsible, contributing members of society.

That works much better than saying " you f'ing a-holes better let us stay here, along with our parents!"

Where are you ancestors from, PP? Maybe they are from a shithole country and you need to know your place too.

See, I can be non PC too.

You liberal idiots can be so dense. They need to know their place because they are not here legally. They are GUESTS and need to show appreciation.

I on the other hand am descended from people who followed the law in immigrating (from 1st world countries) and thus I am a citizen, as were they. Illegals and citizens are not the same, and liberals need to understand that their deranged insistence that illegals are every bit as entitled to be here as citizens is what cost them the election.

How exactly would you like them to "show appreciation"? Is there a list of legitimate citizens who deserve thank you cards, like you in your generosity for being born here as the child of 1st world, legal immigrant parents? My ancestors came over during a genocide and faked their papers to say they were from another country because of the quota system limits, do I owe you a thank-you as well?

A Hallmark card!