Anonymous wrote:Threads like these are why I couldn't care less about my next door neighbor's situation. She has been one of those smug SAHMs for years now. Well, turns out her DH has been having sex with a mutual friend of theirs. He moved out recently and my neighbor has hit hard times. Sometimes, I want to help, but then I kind of think this serves her right. She sat at home for years holding court over our homeowner's association and now, she's heading to an apartment.

Posts like these illustrate exactly what is meant by "bitter harpy." So thank you, PP, for your perfectly timed, and ultra-predictable, little anecdote about your neighbor. I'm just sure it applies widely to all SAHMs.

I'd love to share my own anecdotes with you about my former colleague's affair with the managing partner, and all the drama that ensued at work, not to mention in their respective families. Would you like to hear it?

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Anonymous wrote:
The one thing happy SAHMs that I know have in common is no matter how intelligent or well educated, they don't have a strong professional drive.

Does this mean that high professional drive women don't have high drive to become mothers? If so, then why do they have kids?

No, that's a logical fallacy on your part.

How so? I'd just love to hear your thoughts on this one.

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Anonymous wrote:The implication in this thread is that staying at home is preferable to working and the women posting that they aren’t bored seem to be gloating about it. So that is what is bringing out the venom from the working moms. Maybe I should start a thread about how great it is to be a working mom and see how the SAHMs respond.

Go ahead. I do think staying home is great. That is why I do it. Why should I pretend that it sucks? If you prefer working, fine by me.

Does your husband ever get jealous of all your free time?

DP, but my husband thinks it's great. We meet for lunch all the time and he gets a lot of time off for himself. Why would he be jealous?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The one thing happy SAHMs that I know have in common is no matter how intelligent or well educated, they don't have a strong professional drive.

Does this mean that high professional drive women don't have high drive to become mothers? If so, then why do they have kids?

See, inferences like these are what make people think that stay at home moms aren't very smart. How exactly does your statement follow from hers, logically?

Not the PP, but you must be joking. The question is absolutely relevant, especially if we're to entertain the first statement, that SAHMs "don't have a strong professional drive."

I realize that it must be difficult to process the second question because it clearly hit a nerve (especially if you're the mom who had 50 hours/week of childcare). But try reading slowly. I know you can do it!

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot depends on the temperament of your kids. Some kids are easy, and others have very demanding personalities or needs.

FWIW, I have no dog in this fight. I have a PhD with tenure at a university and my income is in the low $100s with really good benefits--a "dream" job, for sure--and there are certainly days, weeks, even months, when I feel like I would rather be a little bored at home than feel the pressure of publishing (yes, it exists, even after you have tenure) or deal with the petty politics of academia. DH makes 7-figures, so I certainly don't need to work for the money. I can easily imagine filling SAHM days with working out, cooking nice meals, home improvement, shopping, reading good books, hanging out with friends, and volunteering. I would be happy, even if a little bored at times.

But, I do go to work because I think that lowering stress for my family is not the end-all-be-all of life--especially if you have the means and ability to contribute to society in a meaningful way. It's not an issue of wanting to contribute to society, it's more like a moral obligation. I accept that most people, especially women, have been conditioned to not think about contributing to society as imperative, but rather as an option.

I had the opposite of what you are saying. It was a huge expectation from my family that I work. I never ever considered staying home till we had our child. My husband was the first person to put it in my head as an option and I thought he was nuts and my parents would be so upset. After our child, our childcare fell through and my parents wouldn't help till I could find something else (my mom retired and she was pushing me working) so I had no option but to quit. It never ever occurred to me I'd be home and it never occurred to me it was an option. Years later, my mom is still bitter even though she doesn't give us a dime or help in any way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The implication in this thread is that staying at home is preferable to working and the women posting that they aren’t bored seem to be gloating about it. So that is what is bringing out the venom from the working moms. Maybe I should start a thread about how great it is to be a working mom and see how the SAHMs respond.

I can’t image very many would respond at all. I have lots of friends who WOH. I’m amazed at their ability to juggle so much.

The only time I judge a WOHM is when she she spends 50+ hours a week away from her kids. I would say the same about a SAHM who was never with her kids. And I will admit to feeling strongly that babies and young children need to be with their mothers. When men carry a baby for nine months and are able to breastfeed, I’ll feel differently. Everything about the way we are designed makes it clear that it is not natural or healthy for a mother to spend hours and hours away from her baby.

I had 50 hours of childcare per week for more than 10 years. I used about 47 of them regularly. When you don't have any family to give you a break and have a demanding career, it's necessary. My relationships with my now teens is just fine, and unlike you, didn't feel that I needed to cut back on my career.

The only appropriate response to this is: Holy shit.

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Anonymous wrote:So the thread was a question directed to SAHMs. And we ended up with a bunch of angry, bitter WOHMs hurling insults. I have many, many, many happy SAHM and WOHM friends. None of them hurl insults like I see here. As I said earlier, happy people just don't do that.

This is so true. This thread was such a breath of fresh air, until the predictable, bitter harpies showed up to show their disdain. I've always been so happy at home. Not only happy, but grateful - incredibly grateful for our good fortune. We're living the life we had hoped to live when we got married. A SAHP was always part of our plan, and I'm the lucky one who got to fill that role. I've been home for about 11 years and contemplating a return to work in the next year or so. But regardless of what I choose to do, I know I'll never find a role as fulfilling as being a SAHM.

Your gratitude has certainly paved a path for good fortune

Is this sarcasm? B/c someone who calls someone 'bitter harpies' doesn't feel like it fits with someone who is gracious?

Nope, wasn't sarcastic. Calling someone a bitter harpie doesn't mean you can't be gracious.

Haha, yes it does.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gracious

Maybe once you and your buddies stop acting like bitter harpies, we'll stop referring to you as such. Just a thought.

Why don't all of you STFU?
Honestly enough of this stupid sh*t from both sides. You ALL sound insecure to me. You wouldn't have to keep justifying yourselves to each other if you weren't. Women will never be fully equal to men until they cut-this-sh*t-out.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]2 graduate degrees, education & biology.. Worked 15 years, stayed home with my kids for the past 12 years. I love being SAHM and I am definitely not bored. My husband (and children) appreciate my efforts. I am very creative and love to cook, and do many things DH doesn't particularly like to do, like plan vacations. I spend my time raising (and enjoying) my children and buidling a strong relationship with DH. The only thing I don't like is some of the working moms., particularly those that have asked me to pick-up their kids and then insinuate that I am lazy or stupid for being a SAHM. [/quote]

Yep, only SAHMs posted for first 4 response, and then this dig on working moms. Classy. [/quote]

If you'd read it closely then surely you'd understand she wasn't digging on working moms. She specifically mentioned working moms that tried to take advantage of her flexibility as a SAHM to pick up their children, and then also insinuated that she was lazy or stupid for being a SAHM. I can understand where she is coming from. The vast majority of women have never treated me any differently for being a SAHM but every now and then I do come across someone who thinks less of me and my intelligence and capabilities because I'm not "working" outside the house. That I'm either a dumb blonde, a trophy wife, or lazy, or all of the above. [/quote]

So it would've been OK if she had* said the black or Latino moms? It's obvious what she meant. She was generalizing across all working moms.
* Siri watch your language. [/quote]

Huh? Are you trying to imply that working moms are a protected class? [/quote]

So slandering a group of people is okay as long as its legal?[/quote]

OMG. Too funny. DP here, but why don't you confer with your fellow WOHMs about this issue, as they know all about slandering a group of people. They're the experts around here.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the thread was a question directed to SAHMs. And we ended up with a bunch of angry, bitter WOHMs hurling insults. I have many, many, many happy SAHM and WOHM friends. None of them hurl insults like I see here. As I said earlier, happy people just don't do that.

This is so true. This thread was such a breath of fresh air, until the predictable, bitter harpies showed up to show their disdain. I've always been so happy at home. Not only happy, but grateful - incredibly grateful for our good fortune. We're living the life we had hoped to live when we got married. A SAHP was always part of our plan, and I'm the lucky one who got to fill that role. I've been home for about 11 years and contemplating a return to work in the next year or so. But regardless of what I choose to do, I know I'll never find a role as fulfilling as being a SAHM.

Your gratitude has certainly paved a path for good fortune

Is this sarcasm? B/c someone who calls someone 'bitter harpies' doesn't feel like it fits with someone who is gracious?

Nope, wasn't sarcastic. Calling someone a bitter harpie doesn't mean you can't be gracious.

Haha, yes it does.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gracious

Maybe once you and your buddies stop acting like bitter harpies, we'll stop referring to you as such. Just a thought.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a WOHM, but I wouldn't be bored being a SAHM at all. If you're doing it right, you wouldn't be bored. And I mean park trips, museum trips, library story times, music classes, lots of sensory play and outdoor play.

We all know good and bad SAHMs and WOHMs, lets not generalize. Some people are better suited to one versus the other.

What about once your youngest child is in full day school?

Whenever I hear this question (not the PP, btw), I know there's got to be jealousy at play. Otherwise, why on earth would you care what we do once our children are in school?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The one thing happy SAHMs that I know have in common is no matter how intelligent or well educated, they don't have a strong professional drive.

Does this mean that high professional drive women don't have high drive to become mothers? If so, then why do they have kids?

Very interesting question that I'd love to hear an (honest) answer to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting back on topic

I never expected to be a SAHM but then DH got a great offer from his company to transfer to an overseas office. I had just had my first child so it seemed like a good opportunity to take a year or so off before returning to the workforce. Flash forward ten years and one more kid and we're still expats though we've moved countries a few times and I still stay at home. It's not quite what I expected to happen when I was in college or doing my master's or my initial years in the workforce. But do I have regrets? No. Life has been good. Even though we are expats it sounds more exotic than it really is and most of my daily activities are similar to what has already been described on here by other SAHMs. I run the house, prepare the meals, keep everyone's lives in working order, plan the vacations, manage (remotely) our rental property in the US and I am also involved with the family finances. DH makes the money but he's happy to leave the investments to me. In our case, it's also quite helpful having a SAHM to sort out all the little bureaucratic hurdles of being an expat. I also volunteer and I have a good social life with other families and play tennis frequently.

We will return to the US someday and I don't really have plans to return to work, although I also won't rule it out either. I'm actually quite happy being a SAHM and I don't base my self worth on going to an office every day and pushing paper around. I'm very, very happy for those who work and I'm thrilled it's not the 1950s with its conformist expectations for women. But I am also very happy with my life.

The one thing happy SAHMs that I know have in common is no matter how intelligent or well educated, they don't have a strong professional drive.

Well, speaking only for myself, I would say that's partially true. That is, when I had children, I had zero desire to continue working as my focus was on my children. I like to put all my energies into one thing and do that one thing very well, rather than spread myself thin trying to be all things to all people. So, that's what I did - and I absolutely loved being home with my kids. Now that they're older, I'm feeling more of that "professional drive" you mentioned. Which is why I now work PT; just the right balance for me at this time in my life. Perhaps when they're in college, I'll ramp up to FT - or not. That's the beauty of making choices which work for you and your family at different stages of life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The implication in this thread is that staying at home is preferable to working and the women posting that they aren’t bored seem to be gloating about it. So that is what is bringing out the venom from the working moms. Maybe I should start a thread about how great it is to be a working mom and see how the SAHMs respond.

Go ahead. I do think staying home is great. That is why I do it. Why should I pretend that it sucks? If you prefer working, fine by me.

Seriously! I agree completely. Besides which, we hear all the time from these DCUM WOHMs how they vastly prefer working to SAH. Doesn't bother me or affect me one iota.

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Anonymous wrote:I just don't feel comfortable knowing that my life is made entirely possible by someone else's largesse. I've always felt this way, even as a child when I realized some moms don't work outside the home. It's an uncomfortable feeling.

I've been married 30 years and have been at home all but about six of them. DH and I are both 50. I feel 100% comfortable knowing my life is made entirely possible by my DH's income. He would tell you that his life is made 100% possible by me managing our home. So it works out well in our family.

But if it gives you an uncomfortable feeling, you should definitely continue working.

Fantastic answer and 100% true. I worked for 11 years and have been fortunate enough to be home for 12. I just laugh at the simpletons who can't grasp that marriage is a team effort, not an exercise in bean counting. My husband is my biggest champion, and I am his - no matter which way our "division of duties" is divvied up.

MY marriage is not a team effort, it's an exercise in bean counting, which is why we both work full time. Not ideal, but yeah, it is, so neither of us would ever let the other SAH. In fact, we both make roughly the same amount (in 2016, I made 55% of the HHI).

That is pretty pathetic that you even admit yours is a marriage based on bean counting. And that neither of you would "ever let the other SAH." Wow. How awful, to compete not only at work, but also in your marriage. Sad for your kids, too.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm not bored at all. I was bored at work, not at home.

Me too. And to the PP, I have a masters degree and had a successful career before staying home.

It's a lot more challenging to maintain a career, full time, once you have children.

Annnd... no one said it wasn't. It's so funny how you WOHMs swoop in any time you sense a chance to one-up. But what's funnier is that no one is bothering to compete with you. Because we're happy with our lives the way they are. So knock yourselves out, telling anyone who will listen what a "challenging" life you lead.