Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't read 15 pgs of this - but for me it depends on how elite the school is + what the kid intends to study. If they want to go down the finance or law road, I would take on debt for Columbia or Wharton - and of course for Harvard. At the end of the day, those are prestige driven professions and while people will pop up saying -- I'm in those fields and have made tons of money -- reality is that investment banking and biglaw recruiting has really narrowed to 5-10 schools; unless you're somehow famous/important, you aren't getting in with a degree from the U of Alabama. And if you're looking at it from a net worth perspective, starting in banking and biglaw with huge bonuses at a young age sets you up from a net worth perspective and allows you to "downshift" to very respectable jobs later if you want that'll still pay you 150k.

Now if a kid wants to go to UPenn to study history and then do teach for America and find there bliss -- um no -- they can go to state flagship u for that sort of thing.

As the list of undergrad schools posted by a PP shows, BigLaw doesn't give a shit where you went to undergrad. It's your law school, and law school only.

Anonymous wrote:If your kid doesn't 'speak the language' I don't see the point. They'll just end up funneling to where ever their high school friends end up, probably marrying someone from their hometown.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, what is middle class in this case? 170K, 500K, 75K per year? Let's say it is around 150K. How can you justify taking a loan that is possibly half the cost of your house if your house is 400K, which is a modest house in DC metro? How can you possibly hope that you can repay that if you are mid 40s and have mortgage payments and income will not increase, but decrease with retirement. Are you going to sell your house and pay off that Parent Plus Loan and be without any savings? What am I missing? Even a cheaper in state college, with dorm, is at least 26K, and to me even 100K is a ton of money, having two kids, we are talking about 200K anyway with a regular in state school, unless you are lucky and live close to the college. Tell me how do you plan on paying that off? I certainly wouldn't consider 500K middle class, even if it might be here in DC. And I know from our own FAFSA that with an income of 150K DC got only 5K in Direct student loan for school that was over 50K per year.

According to this thread middle class are those who are paying 50% taxes on their income.

Well this is cray since we make over 600k and we don't pay 50% taxes. More like 30%. And we're definitely not middle class and can easily afford to save for our children's educations.

Throw in state income tax and imagine two self-employed workers who earn about $125k each and that could add another 20%. It's not impossible.

Yes it is. It's a graduated income tax for a reason. Two people earning 250k together do not pay more than one person making > 600k.

It's not all linear. Social security taxes are capped (first $127,200 of incomes per worker). Self-employed workers pay both worker and employer contribution (so 12.4%). Tax brackets are large ($60K to 350K is in the same 8.5% bracket in DC) and rates don't go up that much from one high bracket to another. The scenario I gave nets out at about 44.5% income tax rate. And if someone in that situation also looks at property taxes as part of the tax burden that lowers their disposable income, then talking about 50% of their income going to taxes isn't crazy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, what is middle class in this case? 170K, 500K, 75K per year? Let's say it is around 150K. How can you justify taking a loan that is possibly half the cost of your house if your house is 400K, which is a modest house in DC metro? How can you possibly hope that you can repay that if you are mid 40s and have mortgage payments and income will not increase, but decrease with retirement. Are you going to sell your house and pay off that Parent Plus Loan and be without any savings? What am I missing? Even a cheaper in state college, with dorm, is at least 26K, and to me even 100K is a ton of money, having two kids, we are talking about 200K anyway with a regular in state school, unless you are lucky and live close to the college. Tell me how do you plan on paying that off? I certainly wouldn't consider 500K middle class, even if it might be here in DC. And I know from our own FAFSA that with an income of 150K DC got only 5K in Direct student loan for school that was over 50K per year.

According to this thread middle class are those who are paying 50% taxes on their income.

Well this is cray since we make over 600k and we don't pay 50% taxes. More like 30%. And we're definitely not middle class and can easily afford to save for our children's educations.

Throw in state income tax and imagine two self-employed workers who earn about $125k each and that could add another 20%. It's not impossible.

Anonymous wrote:Didn't read 15 pgs of this - but for me it depends on how elite the school is + what the kid intends to study. If they want to go down the finance or law road, I would take on debt for Columbia or Wharton - and of course for Harvard. At the end of the day, those are prestige driven professions and while people will pop up saying -- I'm in those fields and have made tons of money -- reality is that investment banking and biglaw recruiting has really narrowed to 5-10 schools; unless you're somehow famous/important, you aren't getting in with a degree from the U of Alabama. And if you're looking at it from a net worth perspective, starting in banking and biglaw with huge bonuses at a young age sets you up from a net worth perspective and allows you to "downshift" to very respectable jobs later if you want that'll still pay you 150k.

Now if a kid wants to go to UPenn to study history and then do teach for America and find there bliss -- um no -- they can go to state flagship u for that sort of thing.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, what is middle class in this case? 170K, 500K, 75K per year? Let's say it is around 150K. How can you justify taking a loan that is possibly half the cost of your house if your house is 400K, which is a modest house in DC metro? How can you possibly hope that you can repay that if you are mid 40s and have mortgage payments and income will not increase, but decrease with retirement. Are you going to sell your house and pay off that Parent Plus Loan and be without any savings? What am I missing? Even a cheaper in state college, with dorm, is at least 26K, and to me even 100K is a ton of money, having two kids, we are talking about 200K anyway with a regular in state school, unless you are lucky and live close to the college. Tell me how do you plan on paying that off? I certainly wouldn't consider 500K middle class, even if it might be here in DC. And I know from our own FAFSA that with an income of 150K DC got only 5K in Direct student loan for school that was over 50K per year.

According to this thread middle class are those who are paying 50% taxes on their income.

Well this is cray since we make over 600k and we don't pay 50% taxes. More like 30%. And we're definitely not middle class and can easily afford to save for our children's educations.

Throw in state income tax and imagine two self-employed workers who earn about $125k each and that could add another 20%. It's not impossible.

Yes it is. It's a graduated income tax for a reason. Two people earning 250k together do not pay more than one person making > 600k.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, what is middle class in this case? 170K, 500K, 75K per year? Let's say it is around 150K. How can you justify taking a loan that is possibly half the cost of your house if your house is 400K, which is a modest house in DC metro? How can you possibly hope that you can repay that if you are mid 40s and have mortgage payments and income will not increase, but decrease with retirement. Are you going to sell your house and pay off that Parent Plus Loan and be without any savings? What am I missing? Even a cheaper in state college, with dorm, is at least 26K, and to me even 100K is a ton of money, having two kids, we are talking about 200K anyway with a regular in state school, unless you are lucky and live close to the college. Tell me how do you plan on paying that off? I certainly wouldn't consider 500K middle class, even if it might be here in DC. And I know from our own FAFSA that with an income of 150K DC got only 5K in Direct student loan for school that was over 50K per year.

According to this thread middle class are those who are paying 50% taxes on their income.

Well this is cray since we make over 600k and we don't pay 50% taxes. More like 30%. And we're definitely not middle class and can easily afford to save for our children's educations.

Throw in state income tax and imagine two self-employed workers who earn about $125k each and that could add another 20%. It's not impossible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, what is middle class in this case? 170K, 500K, 75K per year? Let's say it is around 150K. How can you justify taking a loan that is possibly half the cost of your house if your house is 400K, which is a modest house in DC metro? How can you possibly hope that you can repay that if you are mid 40s and have mortgage payments and income will not increase, but decrease with retirement. Are you going to sell your house and pay off that Parent Plus Loan and be without any savings? What am I missing? Even a cheaper in state college, with dorm, is at least 26K, and to me even 100K is a ton of money, having two kids, we are talking about 200K anyway with a regular in state school, unless you are lucky and live close to the college. Tell me how do you plan on paying that off? I certainly wouldn't consider 500K middle class, even if it might be here in DC. And I know from our own FAFSA that with an income of 150K DC got only 5K in Direct student loan for school that was over 50K per year.

According to this thread middle class are those who are paying 50% taxes on their income.

Well this is cray since we make over 600k and we don't pay 50% taxes. More like 30%. And we're definitely not middle class and can easily afford to save for our children's educations.

Anonymous wrote:What I find telling about the college board is that it's often obvious when it's a kid posting or an adult posting. As in this thread, where it's clear it's kids who don't understand the realities of $140k. Or what it takes to be able to come up with that money. Even a successful dual income couple with household incomes in 300ks will find that a substantial sum of money. It's not just the figure itself that causes pause but the opportunity costs that comes with spending the extra $140k for a college degree. Adults understand that $140k can go a long way for retirement savings especially when set aside in long-term investments. $140k is a substantial sum for a down payment on a property. $140k goes a long way towards professional / graduate degrees or pays for it outright.

As an Ivy graduate (undergraduate and graduate) I can confirm there are plenty of people who go to the Ivy League and who don't have a remarkable life afterwards. And there are plenty of people who go to state universities and become extremely successful. I loved my Ivy experience but I'm not foolish enough to think it was that much more of a life changing experience compared to if I'd gone to the flagship state university. It did open some doors for me, but you know what, I still ended up working with graduates of state universities and other non-Ivy private colleges. I did well out of life but I don't owe that to the school but more my own abilities, and that's true for most successful Ivy graduates I know. And UVA is still a big name in itself. UVA has a lot of cachet especially in the South.

Going to the Ivy League to hobnob with the elite is laughable. The kind of people who will become "elite," whatever it means, are the people who will always become elite regardless of the school they attended. An Ivy diploma will not magically take a middle class dullard and transform him into a jet - setter elite.

Anonymous wrote:I think (?) we were once upper middle class, after the great recession we are probably middle class but still paying 50% in taxes.

Anonymous wrote:What I find telling about the college board is that it's often obvious when it's a kid posting or an adult posting. As in this thread, where it's clear it's kids who don't understand the realities of $140k. Or what it takes to be able to come up with that money. Even a successful dual income couple with household incomes in 300ks will find that a substantial sum of money. It's not just the figure itself that causes pause but the opportunity costs that comes with spending the extra $140k for a college degree. Adults understand that $140k can go a long way for retirement savings especially when set aside in long-term investments. $140k is a substantial sum for a down payment on a property. $140k goes a long way towards professional / graduate degrees or pays for it outright.

As an Ivy graduate (undergraduate and graduate) I can confirm there are plenty of people who go to the Ivy League and who don't have a remarkable life afterwards. And there are plenty of people who go to state universities and become extremely successful. I loved my Ivy experience but I'm not foolish enough to think it was that much more of a life changing experience compared to if I'd gone to the flagship state university. It did open some doors for me, but you know what, I still ended up working with graduates of state universities and other non-Ivy private colleges. I did well out of life but I don't owe that to the school but more my own abilities, and that's true for most successful Ivy graduates I know. And UVA is still a big name in itself. UVA has a lot of cachet especially in the South.

Going to the Ivy League to hobnob with the elite is laughable. The kind of people who will become "elite," whatever it means, are the people who will always become elite regardless of the school they attended. An Ivy diploma will not magically take a middle class dullard and transform him into a jet - setter elite.