Anonymous wrote:Speaking from experience with both IB and AP schools, I don't think the non-diploma candidates at IB schools benefit much from the program. It's usually parents of the diploma candidates and the vocal IBO employees who claim others also benefit, when in fact they get the short end of the stick (both denied access to AP courses and labeled non-diploma students by college admissions officers).

IB is fine for those who want to do the full program, but there's clearly no reason to put it in so many schools and it clearly has not revived the fortunes of struggling schools where it was installed.

There are schools were over 20 percent of the students are seeking the full diploma. I'd say that's a substantial amount of students pursuing a rigorous program. At any school, the top twenty percent or so of the students would likely be the same pool of people vying for schools that care about pursuing the most rigorous program. So, for the schools where IB is working well, I don't see your point.

Anonymous wrote:You have found the nativist, parochial, NIMBY faction in Fairfax - the Old Guard. Anything that smacks of internationalism or that purports to be better than what "we" have developed here (e.g. AP) is suspect and attacked with hearsay, assumptions and tendentious arguments. This is the also evident in the strong emotions dominating the earlier discussions of various VA schools. The fact that some VA students can't compete at the same level as the best students from "other" places (i.e. can't gain admission to UVA/W&M on merit) is a bitter reality. The fact that the flagship schools receive substantial taxpayer support grates further. This is what you are seeing as underlying some of the reactions to IB. This attitude is not generally informed or genuinely interested investigation of the facts but simply an assertion that "what we have here is better". There's a lot of this attitude around here although it is rapidly dissipating as more open, informed, balanced and competent people move in and start to work and raise children and demand more from the curriculum. Find your supporters among the families that have chosen IB and avoid those who disparage with animosity and without knowledge.

Are you aware that IB is a much, much more expensive program per student? And, while it may suit the needs of a handful of students in the schools where it is implemented, it does not suit the needs of most of the students. And, the schools that have IB must necessarily revolve around the IB program. The money could be far better spent elsewhere.

Speaking from experience with both IB and AP schools, I don't think the non-diploma candidates at IB schools benefit much from the program. It's usually parents of the diploma candidates and the vocal IBO employees who claim others also benefit, when in fact they get the short end of the stick (both denied access to AP courses and labeled non-diploma students by college admissions officers).

IB is fine for those who want to do the full program, but there's clearly no reason to put it in so many schools and it clearly has not revived the fortunes of struggling schools where it was installed.

^^^+10

I think there are two distinct issues. First, IB is in schools where it shouldn't be because there isn't a strong enough student population or cohort to make it successful. So, that's where you get people complaining that it's a waste of money, not effective, etc.

Second, IB is thriving and an excellent program in some schools. And those schools are benefiting from this specialized program and the students who complete it or even partially complete it are getting an excellent education because the program, in and of itself, is great and utilized in other high income or elite(ish) communities (See Falls Church City and the Montgomery County IB magnet schools for example) without complaint or concern (if anything, with accolades).

In terms of obtaining admission to UVA, I don't think anyone is claiming every single candidate is getting in. What they are saying is a decent number of them are getting into UVA and other schools, but really, the value of the program is the exposure to its own special programs like the theory of knowledge course or that project students need to complete. The exposure to writing extensively and the way the courses connect critical thinking to learning the fundamentals. People disagree, of course, and believe AP courses are better and it's really just a judgment call.

Different strokes for different folks is the main take away for most people with the exception of the population of people who believes their choice is the best choice and everyone else is a moron and/or inferior essentially.

If we want to talk about IB, we should really just make another thread. I actually would like to hear more from people who sent their children through the program. If we want to talk about AP courses, we should do the same. People can explain why they thought their children benefited from the coursework there and people can make up their own minds which is a better fit.

thanks for your considerate and thoughtful post!

Sorry for typos

I dont think people are afainst IB where it is running well and fits the needs of the community. People have a legitimate ussue with it where it is not a strong program, it is redundant, and it is an easy path out of certain schools. Thise particular schools and students would be better served by an a la carte program like AP...and tjose schools would lose fewer of their higher SES students uf they offered AP rather than IB.

There is no good reason to have IB at Lee, Edison and Mt Vernon. Tamera D K from the board loves it, but it is not helping those schools or enough students.

My 8th grader is already locked out of the diploma track because she isnt taking foreign lang yet. None of the counselors are pushing 8th graders to do that, so kids dont see the need. I'm glad we arent zoned for an IB school....now my kid will still be in the running to be an AP scholar. My math kid strughles with writing. He probably would have a harder time with IB. Again, I'm glad we made a conscious decision to avoid IB schools when we bought a house last summer. My realtor was stymied at times, but we said no many times when a possible house was zoned IB. AP keeps our kids' options more open.

That said, I do think the program is impressive for those that can qualify and those that complete it. I think it would be better received and executed if there were a couple of IB programs in the county....one west and one east, and they had admission by application only and busing included....like tj. Then people would want to get in snd there would be strong peer support.

You have found the nativist, parochial, NIMBY faction in Fairfax - the Old Guard. Anything that smacks of internationalism or that purports to be better than what "we" have developed here (e.g. AP) is suspect and attacked with hearsay, assumptions and tendentious arguments. This is the also evident in the strong emotions dominating the earlier discussions of various VA schools. The fact that some VA students can't compete at the same level as the best students from "other" places (i.e. can't gain admission to UVA/W&M on merit) is a bitter reality. The fact that the flagship schools receive substantial taxpayer support grates further. This is what you are seeing as underlying some of the reactions to IB. This attitude is not generally informed or genuinely interested investigation of the facts but simply an assertion that "what we have here is better". There's a lot of this attitude around here although it is rapidly dissipating as more open, informed, balanced and competent people move in and start to work and raise children and demand more from the curriculum. Find your supporters among the families that have chosen IB and avoid those who disparage with animosity and without knowledge.

What leads you to assert that the IB program is "to the detriment of everyone else in the County"? The program meets the needs of many students. I have two students in IB who are very happy with their studies. There are programs that are designed for various groups in FCPS (4th grade strings, SpecEd, athletics, drama, ESL, special transportation services, support for unaccompanied minors, etc. etc.) - why do you find IB to be so different? As others have noted, it fits the FCPS Portrait of a Graduate objectives very closely. I don't understand why the program is so objectionable to some. Is it viewed as 'globalist' or the thin edge of a wedge leading to institution of a curriculum that FCPS doesn't control? I'm reaching here for any insights into what the bases may be for the opposition to IB.

You should work on your reading comprehension skills and stop trolling your pro-IB BS again. It serves the interests of a small minority at the IB schools to the detriment of everyone else in the county.

Agree

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the thread. It seems like the only reason the pros/cons of IB are being rehashed yet again is that some IB booster from Robinson thinks all IB diploma students are awesome and should get into U.Va.

Pretty sure that hasn't happened and won't any time soon.

oh FFS, I didn't see that comment anywhere. You're just trolling your anti - IB BS again. To each his own, just be happy if your kids are successful for whatever curriculum they choose.

You should work on your reading comprehension skills and stop trolling your pro-IB BS again. It serves the interests of a small minority at the IB schools to the detriment of everyone else in the county.

Anonymous wrote:Read the thread. It seems like the only reason the pros/cons of IB are being rehashed yet again is that some IB booster from Robinson thinks all IB diploma students are awesome and should get into U.Va.

Pretty sure that hasn't happened and won't any time soon.

oh FFS, I didn't see that comment anywhere. You're just trolling your anti - IB BS again. To each his own, just be happy if your kids are successful for whatever curriculum they choose.

I like IB. My kids like IB. My principal and teachers like IB (GCM). If you like AP - good! I'm happy.

Read the thread. It seems like the only reason the pros/cons of IB are being rehashed yet again is that some IB booster from Robinson thinks all IB diploma students are awesome and should get into U.Va.

Pretty sure that hasn't happened and won't any time soon.