What irks me is why someone who doesn't have anything to do with me or my life thinks they should have a say over my body. Nobody says you (you in the general sense) have to agree with abortion, but your opinion should not have to effect other people.

Unless asked for, everyone should keep their opinions to themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's untrue. A baby goes to heaven in the Catholic Church.

As a Catholic I do not believe this is true. Babies need to be baptized to go to heaven.

This is why your church gets so much well deserved sh*t

Exactly. That is some messed up sh1t.

Yup. I baptized babies go to Limbo. Not Hell, but not Heaven either. They lost me not too long after I learned that in CCD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's untrue. A baby goes to heaven in the Catholic Church.

As a Catholic I do not believe this is true. Babies need to be baptized to go to heaven.

This is why your church gets so much well deserved sh*t

Exactly. That is some messed up sh1t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's untrue. A baby goes to heaven in the Catholic Church.

As a Catholic I do not believe this is true. Babies need to be baptized to go to heaven.

This is why your church gets so much well deserved sh*t

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's untrue. A baby goes to heaven in the Catholic Church.

As a Catholic I do not believe this is true. Babies need to be baptized to go to heaven.

Another Catholic here - it is, at best, ambiguous. http://www.catholicherald.com/Faith/Your_Faith/Straight_Answers/Straight_Answers__Do_Aborted_Children_Go_to_Heaven_/ I choose to believe in God's mercy for these circumstances - i.e., that unbaptized babies, aborted fetuses, miscarried fetuses, etc. go to Heaven.

This is a story for the pro-lifers. You tell me what you would have done.

I use to be and ER RN in a border state in this country. Woman came in to the ER with a prolapsed uterus...look it up not a good thing. She had 7 children with her and her husband. They were in age range of 11-18 months old. This woman was mentally beaten down. Her husband answered all questions for her as the kids ran around her room. She was also having acute left lower abd pain. Found out that pain was an ectopic pregnancy. So doctors tell her what is going to happen to resolve the pregnancy and to fix the prolapsed uterus. So her husband chimes in and doesn't want the ectopic pregnancy dealt with because it is "his" baby as he put it and he wants to make sure the prolapsed uterus is fixed so she can have some more kids. Doctors explain that with an ectopic pregnancy she will die if it is allowed to continue. Other things noted on this woman, old bruises on arms and back. Chart showed she had a history of "Falling" with multiple broken bones. Husband decides it is ok to fix the ectopic pregnancy but wants absolute assurance that she will be able to have more kids. Through out all this the woman maybe utters 3 words, mostly yes and no answers. She was shipped off to the OR and admitted not sure how it all ended. BTW...true story

In circumstances like this, if she gets pregnant again, and from husband sounds like he is going to try his best to see to it that that happens, would you say she should not be allowed to have an abortion?

Anonymous wrote:That's untrue. A baby goes to heaven in the Catholic Church.

As a Catholic I do not believe this is true. Babies need to be baptized to go to heaven.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what I don't understand about the pro-choice talking points, coming from someone who has no particular religious beliefs:

When I see a fetus, I know it looks like a baby. It has a head, a torso, arms, etc.

When I'm pregnant, I can feel the fetus. That isn't a ghost kicking me.

When I look at a sonogram, I know I'm looking at life. A heartbeat. Bodily organs that will never be mine.

The pro-choice movement would have me believe that it's all about "my body, my choice." I agree with that, so I exert control over my body...my hair, my teeth, my fingernails, etc.

That fetus inside of me that looks like a baby, acts like a baby, and will eventually be a baby...why do you believe that it's just "part of my body?"

Yeah, I get that it's growing in me, and yeah, I get that it's dependent on me, but it's still something separate from. That fetus will always have separate DNA from me. How do I justify that my fetus with its own DNA is just "part of my body?"

I appreciate the desire for independent liberty and bodily autonomy, but why should a fetus with its own DNA, its own organs, its own veins, etc. have no rights, and no liberty?

Ironic to me that in many jurisdictions, a pregnant woman's killing will result in 2 counts of murder. I guess that's because it was assumed that any mother carrying a baby wanted that life to live, so we are supposed to mourn, and the law provides justice for mother and the unborn life. However, the minute that the mother decides she doesn't want the baby, we're supposed to support her decision to terminate, and not emote. I don't get that at all.

Look, I get all those points, and women making choice to terminate pregnancy don't do it lightly. It always a struggle.
Also, until that fetus cannot survive outside of the woman's body - it is part of that body.
Just my 2 c

Some actually don't think much about how many abortions they have. My kid worked for a lobbyist who had three. What's one more?

False. Why on earth would someone tell their intern such personal information?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a wide variety of reasons why someone may choose abortion. That is a serious decision for that person and her doctor to make. Not me. And certainly not the government.

The thing that I don't get is why pro-lifers stop caring about that life after it's born.

Why do you think they don't care?

Also I said that I am okay with abortion for extremely unfortunate circumstances. If a pregnancy is not viable or a danger to the mother, that is okay and should be legal everywhere. My issue is with frivolous abortions.

Because they continually vote in representatives who consistently cut funds to programs that would help all of these women having all of these babies.

Anti-choice individuals are pro-BIRTH. Not pro-life.

Anonymous wrote:"Abortion is against my religion, so no one should do it."
It's against YOUR religion, not everyone's. Also, why have all you pro-life people never heard of separation of church and state?

Like a PP said, it's none of your business, stay out of it. You're free to not get an abortion if you don't believe in it. You're not free to tell other people what they should do. Why should others have to follow YOUR beliefs?

A-f*cking-men

"Abortion is against my religion, so no one should do it."
It's against YOUR religion, not everyone's. Also, why have all you pro-life people never heard of separation of church and state?

Like a PP said, it's none of your business, stay out of it. You're free to not get an abortion if you don't believe in it. You're not free to tell other people what they should do. Why should others have to follow YOUR beliefs?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a wide variety of reasons why someone may choose abortion. That is a serious decision for that person and her doctor to make. Not me. And certainly not the government.

The thing that I don't get is why pro-lifers stop caring about that life after it's born.

Why do you think they don't care?

Also I said that I am okay with abortion for extremely unfortunate circumstances. If a pregnancy is not viable or a danger to the mother, that is okay and should be legal everywhere. My issue is with frivolous abortions.

Are you kidding? It's not like women are using abortions in lieu of birth control. Like, forget a condom tonight Dan, I'll just get another abortion if I get pregnant. No one is getting frivolous abortions!

Anonymous wrote:Here's what I don't understand about the pro-choice talking points, coming from someone who has no particular religious beliefs:

When I see a fetus, I know it looks like a baby. It has a head, a torso, arms, etc.

When I'm pregnant, I can feel the fetus. That isn't a ghost kicking me.

When I look at a sonogram, I know I'm looking at life. A heartbeat. Bodily organs that will never be mine.

The pro-choice movement would have me believe that it's all about "my body, my choice." I agree with that, so I exert control over my body...my hair, my teeth, my fingernails, etc.

That fetus inside of me that looks like a baby, acts like a baby, and will eventually be a baby...why do you believe that it's just "part of my body?"

Yeah, I get that it's growing in me, and yeah, I get that it's dependent on me, but it's still something separate from. That fetus will always have separate DNA from me. How do I justify that my fetus with its own DNA is just "part of my body?"

I appreciate the desire for independent liberty and bodily autonomy, but why should a fetus with its own DNA, its own organs, its own veins, etc. have no rights, and no liberty?

Ironic to me that in many jurisdictions, a pregnant woman's killing will result in 2 counts of murder. I guess that's because it was assumed that any mother carrying a baby wanted that life to live, so we are supposed to mourn, and the law provides justice for mother and the unborn life. However, the minute that the mother decides she doesn't want the baby, we're supposed to support her decision to terminate, and not emote. I don't get that at all.

The vast majority of abortions take place in the first trimester. When I was pregnant the first time, I didn't feel any kicking until I was almost 20 weeks. At 12 weeks, I didn't look any different than I did at -12 weeks. We weren't able to find a heartbeat until 8 weeks. On the ultrasound, the fetus that would eventually become my daughter didn't look like a human baby any more than a pig fetus looks like a human baby.

As for your questions about individual rights, I will point out to you that individual rights exist on a sliding scale. There are lots of situations in which an individual has fewer rights or different rights than another individual. Children, for example, have fewer rights than adults, and their parents are allowed to make all kinds of decisions about what happens to those children without the child's input. For a "child" that is wholly dependent on another person for absolutely everything - unable to live outside the woman's body until 24 weeks - those distinctions become even more dramatic. I understand that you are questioning to what extent the fetus's rights should be protected, and I would extend that question further to other issues related to situations where a parent is permitted to make decisions regarding their children. Do you support a parent's right to discipline a child as they see fit, even if that discipline is harmful to the child? Do you support a parent's right to make medical decisions for their children, without input from those children, even if those decisions are harmful to the child? At what point do you believe it is appropriate for the government to dictate what decisions must be made in what circumstances? The example of organ donation has come up numerous times in this thread. If your child requires a kidney and you are a match, is it appropriate for the government to require you to donate that kidney, without regard for what you want or whether it will be in your best interest to donate?

As for your questions about how we feel about ending pregnancies in various ways, I think the distinction you're missing is that the grief that surrounds the termination of a planned, wanted pregnancy is often different from the grief that surrounds the termination of an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy. Not always, but a lot of times it is very different. I have had several miscarriages of planned, wanted pregnancies. In those situations, I was grieving the loss of a life I'd planned to bring into the world. I have also had an abortion, and while it was an emotionally difficult time (NOT MADE EASIER BY THOSE "PRO LIFE" PROTESTERS AND THEIR SIGNS, I might add), the sadness I felt was very different from the sadness I felt during the other times pregnancies I had ended. As for what YOU are supposed to do when someone else experiences a pregnancy loss - whether by miscarriage or elective abortion - I truly don't see why your feelings are relevant. If someone you care about tells you that they've had a miscarriage and are sad, you say, "I'm so sorry for your loss. Is there anything I can do for you?" If someone you care about tells you that they've had an abortion and are sad, you say, "I'm so sorry that you experienced that. Is there anything I can do for you?"

That's untrue. A baby goes to heaven in the Catholic Church.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If abortion was made illegal except for cases due to life of mother or life of baby, whose life would be more important? If carrying the baby to term will kill the mother, but save the baby- whose life do you save?

Catholics will save the baby. The mom has presumably been baptized and is therefore OK. The baby has not been baptized, and needs to be born so that it can be baptized.

So gross.