Anonymous
11/29/2016 16:01
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:An expanded voucher program is not going to expand choice.
People in private schools already (all income levels) will get a coupon to use to reduce the amount they pay out of pocket. A few low quality schools will open.
The real danger is that they will move money from current public school funding to this, not increasing the investment overall. It's going to be a zero sum game.
Which means those good private schools will have more resources to extend to more students (assuming they're not at capacity). If St Albans, for example, gets $100k in coupons, couldn't they give scholarships to 20 more low-income kids?
Or higher salaries. Or more money to lobby for vouchers. Lots of things they can do other than spend on more low-income kids.
Exactly. It's no-strings-attached money. So the private market can do whatever they want with it: raise prices, give more scholarships, cut prices, salaries, build an underwater basket-weaving lab ... if we want this money to go to an actual policy end, then it has to come with some strings attached. As of now, the only policy rationale seems to be "choice," which, as has been convincingly argued here, does not actually do anything in DC.
Anonymous
11/29/2016 15:58
Subject: Re:Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:^^^ Why can't you understand you're just wrong. People want choice. Go back in your hole; we don't want to follow you there.
I'm just really curious to know who this PP is. PP, this is DCUM where we (often but not always) make arguments supported by facts. Would you like to join us?
Anonymous
11/29/2016 14:55
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:An expanded voucher program is not going to expand choice.
People in private schools already (all income levels) will get a coupon to use to reduce the amount they pay out of pocket. A few low quality schools will open.
The real danger is that they will move money from current public school funding to this, not increasing the investment overall. It's going to be a zero sum game.
Which means those good private schools will have more resources to extend to more students (assuming they're not at capacity). If St Albans, for example, gets $100k in coupons, couldn't they give scholarships to 20 more low-income kids?
Or higher salaries. Or more money to lobby for vouchers. Lots of things they can do other than spend on more low-income kids.
Anonymous
11/29/2016 14:52
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:An expanded voucher program is not going to expand choice.
People in private schools already (all income levels) will get a coupon to use to reduce the amount they pay out of pocket. A few low quality schools will open.
The real danger is that they will move money from current public school funding to this, not increasing the investment overall. It's going to be a zero sum game.
Which means those good private schools will have more resources to extend to more students (assuming they're not at capacity). If St Albans, for example, gets $100k in coupons, couldn't they give scholarships to 20 more low-income kids?
No. St. Albans tuition is about $40K per year. If vouchers don't have income limits, then the coupon would cover 10K and parents pay the other 30K. Cost of providing the school will still be 40K so no extra money for scholarships or whatever.
For each student who uses a $10K coupon at St. Albans the amount the DC government receives from the federal government for education would decrease by 10K.
Anonymous
11/29/2016 14:49
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:An expanded voucher program is not going to expand choice.
People in private schools already (all income levels) will get a coupon to use to reduce the amount they pay out of pocket. A few low quality schools will open.
The real danger is that they will move money from current public school funding to this, not increasing the investment overall. It's going to be a zero sum game.
Which means those good private schools will have more resources to extend to more students (assuming they're not at capacity). If St Albans, for example, gets $100k in coupons, couldn't they give scholarships to 20 more low-income kids?
Anonymous
11/29/2016 13:03
Subject: Re:Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:^^^ Why can't you understand you're just wrong. People want choice. Go back in your hole; we don't want to follow you there.
The only way you get choice in this system is by having more money than others. Otherwise, the best you can get is chance.
Anonymous
11/29/2016 13:00
Subject: Re:Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
^^^ Why can't you understand you're just wrong. People want choice. Go back in your hole; we don't want to follow you there.
Anonymous
11/29/2016 11:42
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:An expanded voucher program is not going to expand choice.
People in private schools already (all income levels) will get a coupon to use to reduce the amount they pay out of pocket. A few low quality schools will open.
The real danger is that they will move money from current public school funding to this, not increasing the investment overall. It's going to be a zero sum game.
Agreed. And, if anything, it will just cause private school tuition to skyrocket by the amount of the voucher (similar to how student loans caused college tuition to skyrocket). So private school parents will still end up paying the same amount, meanwhile public schools will be even worse.
Why can't people understand a simple cause and effect?
Anonymous
11/29/2016 10:40
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
An expanded voucher program is not going to expand choice.
People in private schools already (all income levels) will get a coupon to use to reduce the amount they pay out of pocket. A few low quality schools will open.
The real danger is that they will move money from current public school funding to this, not increasing the investment overall. It's going to be a zero sum game.
People in private schools already (all income levels) will get a coupon to use to reduce the amount they pay out of pocket. A few low quality schools will open.
The real danger is that they will move money from current public school funding to this, not increasing the investment overall. It's going to be a zero sum game.
Anonymous
11/29/2016 10:25
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Vouchers won't work in DC. If there were a market for private schools that cost $10,000/year the schools would already exist.
We have vouchers and families who use them think they are working.
Here's W Post on what Trump may mean for that program: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/trump-could-open-door-to-expanding-dc-school-voucher-program-advocates-say/2016/11/27/a89b9b64-b195-11e6-840f-e3ebab6bcdd3_story.html
From April 2016: "Qualifying low-income families are given vouchers to use at private schools of their choosing. In the 2014-2015 school year, 1,442 students used vouchers to pay tuition at 47 private schools in the District, with 80 percent of those students using the vouchers for religious schools." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2016/04/29/gop-house-passes-d-c-private-schools-voucher-program-again/
Right, so qualifying *low income* families are happy with the lower-ranked Catholic schools. My question is whether the vouchers will do anything for middle/upper-middle income families, as well as lower-income families who might rather attend a secular school.
Read the article. It's not just Catholic schools but also schools run by the Nation of Islam and other non-religious, $9,000/year schools that opened just to serve kids who receive the vouchers. There was one student attending Sidwell with a voucher but that's the exception. The first article says that the GOP is interested in making vouchers available to any taxpayers and under what conditions the DC Council might support this.
Right, the articles in no way support the proposition that an expanded voucher program will lead to more high-quality private choice for UMC parents; or non-secular/quality choices for lower-income parents. Unless the Archdiocese of Washington stands ready to absorb the additional demand I just don't see how more vouchers in DC will result in meaningful choice. But I'm open to hearing arguments (although just hearing crickets at this point.)
Anonymous
11/29/2016 10:19
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Vouchers won't work in DC. If there were a market for private schools that cost $10,000/year the schools would already exist.
We have vouchers and families who use them think they are working.
Here's W Post on what Trump may mean for that program: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/trump-could-open-door-to-expanding-dc-school-voucher-program-advocates-say/2016/11/27/a89b9b64-b195-11e6-840f-e3ebab6bcdd3_story.html
From April 2016: "Qualifying low-income families are given vouchers to use at private schools of their choosing. In the 2014-2015 school year, 1,442 students used vouchers to pay tuition at 47 private schools in the District, with 80 percent of those students using the vouchers for religious schools." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2016/04/29/gop-house-passes-d-c-private-schools-voucher-program-again/
Right, so qualifying *low income* families are happy with the lower-ranked Catholic schools. My question is whether the vouchers will do anything for middle/upper-middle income families, as well as lower-income families who might rather attend a secular school.
Read the article. It's not just Catholic schools but also schools run by the Nation of Islam and other non-religious, $9,000/year schools that opened just to serve kids who receive the vouchers. There was one student attending Sidwell with a voucher but that's the exception. The first article says that the GOP is interested in making vouchers available to any taxpayers and under what conditions the DC Council might support this.
Anonymous
11/29/2016 10:17
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Vouchers won't work in DC. If there were a market for private schools that cost $10,000/year the schools would already exist.
We have vouchers and families who use them think they are working.
Here's W Post on what Trump may mean for that program: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/trump-could-open-door-to-expanding-dc-school-voucher-program-advocates-say/2016/11/27/a89b9b64-b195-11e6-840f-e3ebab6bcdd3_story.html
From April 2016: "Qualifying low-income families are given vouchers to use at private schools of their choosing. In the 2014-2015 school year, 1,442 students used vouchers to pay tuition at 47 private schools in the District, with 80 percent of those students using the vouchers for religious schools." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2016/04/29/gop-house-passes-d-c-private-schools-voucher-program-again/
Right, so qualifying *low income* families are happy with the lower-ranked Catholic schools. My question is whether the vouchers will do anything for middle/upper-middle income families, as well as lower-income families who might rather attend a secular school.
Anonymous
11/29/2016 10:13
Subject: Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Vouchers won't work in DC. If there were a market for private schools that cost $10,000/year the schools would already exist.
We have vouchers and families who use them think they are working.
Here's W Post on what Trump may mean for that program: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/trump-could-open-door-to-expanding-dc-school-voucher-program-advocates-say/2016/11/27/a89b9b64-b195-11e6-840f-e3ebab6bcdd3_story.html
From April 2016: "Qualifying low-income families are given vouchers to use at private schools of their choosing. In the 2014-2015 school year, 1,442 students used vouchers to pay tuition at 47 private schools in the District, with 80 percent of those students using the vouchers for religious schools." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2016/04/29/gop-house-passes-d-c-private-schools-voucher-program-again/
Anonymous
11/29/2016 10:06
Subject: Re:Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For the ignorant, school choice promotes property value because it's actually beneficial and what people want. Ask Bernie Sanders, he ought to know.
http://www.thevermontstandard.com/2015/10/school-choice-is-a-selling-point-in-real-estate-market/
go away Breitbart troll. until you provide a detailed analysis, using facts, showing how vouchers are going to create more high quality schools in DC, nobody is listening.
Lady, you need to get back on your meds; I truly don't think you are well. Dissing on Catholic schools when you know nothing of the academic successes going on there is preposterous. Catholic schools in DC are getting US Dept. Ed. Blue Ribbons. Many are excelling well over any DCPS or charter in PARCC scores. The Vermont voucher system has been around for 100 plus years. I don't know anything about Breibart, but why don't you ask Bernie Sanders. The Vermont Standard is a long-standing county publication. You can check out too: http://www.vtindependentschools.org/tuition-vouchers.html
Long and short is that you should consider calming down and reflecting. Sock-puppeting on this issue at 3:00 AM leaves questions.
Well, you really are an object lesson on the absence of ability to make fact-based arguments and the injection of paranoia (sock puppeting at 3am? Nope, sorry. That's all in your head.)
Once again, how is an expanded voucher program going to expand quality private school options IN WASHINGTON DC for the DCUM demographic (UMC)?
Anonymous
11/29/2016 06:02
Subject: Re:Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For the ignorant, school choice promotes property value because it's actually beneficial and what people want. Ask Bernie Sanders, he ought to know.
http://www.thevermontstandard.com/2015/10/school-choice-is-a-selling-point-in-real-estate-market/
go away Breitbart troll. until you provide a detailed analysis, using facts, showing how vouchers are going to create more high quality schools in DC, nobody is listening.
Lady, you need to get back on your meds; I truly don't think you are well. Dissing on Catholic schools when you know nothing of the academic successes going on there is preposterous. Catholic schools in DC are getting US Dept. Ed. Blue Ribbons. Many are excelling well over any DCPS or charter in PARCC scores. The Vermont voucher system has been around for 100 plus years. I don't know anything about Breibart, but why don't you ask Bernie Sanders. The Vermont Standard is a long-standing county publication. You can check out too: http://www.vtindependentschools.org/tuition-vouchers.html
Long and short is that you should consider calming down and reflecting. Sock-puppeting on this issue at 3:00 AM leaves questions.
To clarify, the Vermont voucher program doesn't permit religious schools to receive public funding - it's in the fine print. Betsy DeVos' plan is likely to follow suit, because even a GOP-led Congress won't support federal education funds going to religious schools.