To me, discipline corrects behavior so that offenses aren't committed. When it is a grave offense, a punishment is the consequence. Fear of punishment is an effective deterrent for many, many people. I don't know statistical data around this, but I would be curious to know if the people who aren't so afraid of punishment are desensitized to it because of their conditions. For example, a child that was sold as a sex slave may not find the crime of prostitutiom and punishment of jail as a fearful consequence, considering the trauma.

When we place this in the context of parenting young, healthy, innocent children, I think discipline could be something as simple as "you didn't do your homework, now we are correcting the behavior by having tmyou complete all homework by XYZ and giving it to us to see each night before you can have screen time. The trust is reeled in and we will guide you in becoming disciplined until you can. If this continues, the consequence of no homework becoming a systemic academic barrier is a greater concern; therefore we are punishing you by taking away all gaming, screen time, until your score comes up in this class.

For younger children, I can personally see how yelling intended as discipline easily being internalized as a punishment if it makes them feel badly. Maybe less than spanking even. Both are controversial because A lot of this is circumstantial, subjective to the child, there are many other factors to consider. There are millions of children were yelled at, and are absolutely healthy and fine.millions of others who were traumatized and developed crippling and unhealthy coping mechanisms. I don't know that this is a black and white issue for every family.

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Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

I'm not sure what your point is. People make the choices they think are best for THEM. That doesn't mean those choices are right for everyone, or that those choices are necessary in raising well-behaved, adjusted children. I use time-outs, but I understand that not all parents use time-outs and that it's possible to raise well-behaved kids without them.

I was genuinely curious!

Pp again-I mean: I feel very strongly about not hitting my children. Given that I believe it is possible to raise well behaved children without hitting them that is what I do. Others choose to hit theirs. I was curious about their thought process-was it that they did not believe as I do that one can raise well behaved children without spanking. Or is their some other benefit to spanking. Some other pps have kindly answered and I genuinely appreciate it.

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Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

I'm not sure what your point is. People make the choices they think are best for THEM. That doesn't mean those choices are right for everyone, or that those choices are necessary in raising well-behaved, adjusted children. I use time-outs, but I understand that not all parents use time-outs and that it's possible to raise well-behaved kids without them.

I was genuinely curious!

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

What odd "logic". Of course it's possible to raise a kid without ANY specific method of discipline. I have no idea what you're trying to say. It's also possible to raise a well-behaved kid without timeouts, but I still use them. It's possible to raise a kid without ever giving them ice cream, I still give my kids ice cream occasionally. It's possible to raise a well-behaved kid who never uses an iPad, I still occasionally allow kids time with an iPad.

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

I'm not sure what your point is. People make the choices they think are best for THEM. That doesn't mean those choices are right for everyone, or that those choices are necessary in raising well-behaved, adjusted children. I use time-outs, but I understand that not all parents use time-outs and that it's possible to raise well-behaved kids without them.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

? Do you think *all* kids are the same, and every discipline method works the exact same way on every kid? I have two kids, and they are very different, and how I parent and discipline them are very different. Your logic is weird.

So it's a weird coincidence that I (and the vast majority of my friends and family) who knew from before pregnancy that spanking was not on the table all happened to have children whose temperaments didn't demand spanking?

np. I have a feeling you spend a lot more time either "choosing your battles," as the euphemism goes, and/or managing an endless matrix of arbitrary incentives and penalties. And you or your friends probably still complain that the kids "just don't listen."

+1 Different parents seem to have different definitions of "well behaved" child.

I saw a mom do nothing as her child took something from another child who was playing with it. The child asked for it back, and the mom just looked at that kid and shrugged her shoulders. She probably thinks her child is well behaved because he at least didn't hit that child or throw a tantrum.

And you read the posts about how some parents will go over the Principal to get their precious snowflakes out of trouble, and I bet these parents still think their children are well behaved because... you know, they get good grades and everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

? Do you think *all* kids are the same, and every discipline method works the exact same way on every kid? I have two kids, and they are very different, and how I parent and discipline them are very different. Your logic is weird.

So it's a weird coincidence that I (and the vast majority of my friends and family) who knew from before pregnancy that spanking was not on the table all happened to have children whose temperaments didn't demand spanking?

np. I have a feeling you spend a lot more time either "choosing your battles," as the euphemism goes, and/or managing an endless matrix of arbitrary incentives and penalties. And you or your friends probably still complain that the kids "just don't listen."

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

I'm not looking for simply average-behaved kids, especially not by DCUM standards. Additionally, I want to do as little disciplining as possible, and spend the most time as possible in a non-disciplinary mode. I don't want to be enforcing timeouts, or spending my parenting energy managing various lost and restored privileges for each kid. No, I prefer simple, concrete, swift and effective discipline that is over and done with just as quickly. That's the advantage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

? Do you think *all* kids are the same, and every discipline method works the exact same way on every kid? I have two kids, and they are very different, and how I parent and discipline them are very different. Your logic is weird.

So it's a weird coincidence that I (and the vast majority of my friends and family) who knew from before pregnancy that spanking was not on the table all happened to have children whose temperaments didn't demand spanking?

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

? Do you think *all* kids are the same, and every discipline method works the exact same way on every kid? I have two kids, and they are very different, and how I parent and discipline them are very different. Your logic is weird.

What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

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Anonymous wrote:
Do you tell them beforehand that they're getting a spanking? Do you bend them over your knee?

No and no. They are given plenty of warning about consequences, though. Haven't had to spank my kids in years.

You never "had to" spank your kids. No one "has to" spank.

IMO, I did. No one "has" to circumcise their baby boys, but they do. Lots of things no one "has" to do but they do because they feel that it is the right thing for them.

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Anonymous wrote:Hitting an adult is illegal, why is hitting a child ok? What does that teach? For them to hit?
Believe me, there are times I want to when my son is not listening but then I look at him and the thought of anyone especially me hurting him becomes unthinkable. Take the higher and possibly harder road and teach not spank.

hitting an adult is not illegal if it is self defense or you are at war. Hitting a child on the bottom is not illegal if it is disciplining. See how that works. It all depends on the circumstance.

Hitting a child in any circumstance should be illegal. What does it teach? Your analogy and examples are just far fetched and bizarre.

? You are the one who use the analogy of hitting an adult. Nice logic there trying to twist it around when your attempted use of logic failed and worked against you.

Hitting a child when the child doesn't listen to the parent teaches the child to listen to the parent.

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Anonymous wrote:As a psychologist I will weigh in that the studies that have been done are definitely clear that there is no benefit to spanking, there is also research showing negative effects. There are a few studies that have shown it to be less harmful - typically when it is common "in-group" practice. That is, when children grow up in households where it is common in that neighborhood/community/culture, it tends to be slightly less harmful. But there are definitely no studies endorsing the practice and decades of child psychology research suggests it does not include any of the components of discipline that we know works. Generally, spanking is a punishment not discipline - as discipline is intended to teach. Punishments don't typically work to change behavior - among adults or children.

Now yes, the research can't randomly assign kids to be hit or not - so we will never have 100% conclusive evidence - but the studies do work to control for factors like SES, education of parents, stress, and other things that could also relate to outcomes to try to limit the amount of other explanations for the findings.

Please, please don't hit your kids. As an adult, can you think of a time when someone wanted you to do something and if they slapped you or hit you, it would make you MORE likely to do it? Possibly only if you were then scared of the person. Seems like not the right reasons we want our kids to do (or not do) things.

+1

Is our role to teach our children, or punish them?

Both. ?

Why? What is the purpose of punishment (vs. teaching)?

? Human beings, especially children, aren't completely logical creatures. They are greedy, selfish, etc... Sometimes, you need a deterrent to make them not do something, like jail time for adults, and "punishment" for kids. Yes, we teach them to do the right thing, but without consequences, ie, punishments, some kids will not learn.

What constitutes a spanking then, for you?

Open hand, on the bottom, fully clothed.

Do you tell them beforehand that they're getting a spanking? Do you bend them over your knee?

No and no. They are given plenty of warning about consequences, though. Haven't had to spank my kids in years.

You never "had to" spank your kids. No one "has to" spank.

Anonymous wrote:Hitting an adult is illegal, why is hitting a child ok? What does that teach? For them to hit?
Believe me, there are times I want to when my son is not listening but then I look at him and the thought of anyone especially me hurting him becomes unthinkable. Take the higher and possibly harder road and teach not spank.

Taking an adult's (often treasured) belongings such as a toy or their electronics is illegal, why is doing the same to a child ok? What does that teach? For them to steal from others?

Believe me, there are times I want to when my son is not listening but then I look at him and the thought of anyone, especially me stealing his toys becomes unthinkable. Take the higher and possibly harder road and teach not steal belongings.