DCUM Forum

Anonymous

03/24/2016 22:07 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

But what exactly is it, that makes it a sin? Is it the non-procreative sex? Is it two people sharing the same chromosomes being in a close, intimate, but non-sexual relationship? If so, lots of close friendships among same-sex friends may be called into question.

Or, the non-procreative sex of heterosexual couples. What exactly is the sin line?

+1000

The idea that a god would create people a certain way and then say, "oh by the way, you must deny your nature or you're going to hell, sorry" is crazy. I can't even imagine wanting to have a relationship with a god like that.

what? Some people are born sociopaths. Would God say to the sociopath that it's ok to murder people because that's just how you were born? Or to the addict because they were born with an addictive personality that it's ok to fulfill their addiction because they were born with it?

We are all born with sin. We are supposed to try to overcome our sinful nature through Jesus. We all fail, everyday, in that endeavor, but we are not supposed to just succumb to it because we are born sinful.

Equating murder with love that two people willingly share is just ridiculous. There is no equivalence. There is no one hurt when two men or two women share a life together as partners. What, exactly, is the sin of love? Murdering someone = bad. An addict hurting herself = bad. Two people falling in love = where is the evil in that?

Just why do people get so worked up over sex? Where are all the people calling out the rich? Lust for money is a sin according tho the bible but how many people are out there to enact laws to suppress the worship of luxury?

I don't think Jesus said a word about sex but he did say this:

Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.…" (Matthew 19:21-23)

How many anti-gay posters are willing to sell all your posessions to give to the poor?

1. this thread is about homosexuality and the bible, not about greed, lust, jealousy, etc.. If it were, yes, we'd talk about all those greedy, crooked Wall Street people and politicians

2. I am stating that everyone is born with sin, and just because God allowed one to be created with a specific sinful nature, it doesn't mean he condones succumbing to that sinful nature. I wasn't equating the act of murder with the act of homosexuality. It was simply an example of how God allows people to be born with certain sinful natures.

Why does God allow babies/children to suffer? Why did God create Satan? If God is omniscient He should've known Satan was going to fall, right? Why did God create imperfect human beings if he knew they were going to disobey him? I don't have the answers. But, I know that Satan is evil, and Adam and Eve committed the original sin. And then Jesus came to redeem us from that original sin. This still doesn't mean that it's ok to commit a sin, no matter the sin.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 22:03 Subject: Re:How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

I believe God's rules make sense for humankind's well-being. It has always made sense to me that God's plan was for children to be raised by a mother and a father.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 22:00 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:
I feel sorry for your spouse. Or are you a priest/nun by any chance? Sexuality is a basic, integral part of human life.

I would feel sorrier for someone whose spouse inserted a totally random ad hominem attack in arguments, I guess?

Anonymous

03/24/2016 21:58 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

But what exactly is it, that makes it a sin? Is it the non-procreative sex? Is it two people sharing the same chromosomes being in a close, intimate, but non-sexual relationship? If so, lots of close friendships among same-sex friends may be called into question.

Or, the non-procreative sex of heterosexual couples. What exactly is the sin line?

+1000

The idea that a god would create people a certain way and then say, "oh by the way, you must deny your nature or you're going to hell, sorry" is crazy. I can't even imagine wanting to have a relationship with a god like that.

Being predisposed to a certain sin does not mean that you are going to hell. We are all predisposed to sin. People who are tempted to have sex outside of marriage are predisposed to the exact same type of sin.

Again, so what you're saying is that god created a certain class of people who happen to love others of their own sex and then tells them sorry, you have to suppress your nature for your entire life.

What kind of cruel god would do that?

I guess if you think of it that way, God is cruel no matter what. There are people who are born with all kinds of burdens- disability, blindness, etc. Why would God do that to them?

You're equating loving someone of your own sex with blindness or bodily deformity?

Well if I had equated it with pedophilia or bestiality or something, you would have been even more offended!

So yes.

Again, please explain why you think a god would create 10% of the population a certain way only to order them not to have fulfilling sexual/romantic relationships ever. What is the point?

And if god made people disabled, at least he's not telling them they can't be who they are. He's not saying that it's a sin for an amputee to use equipment to walk. Or for deaf people to sign with one another. That is the difference. You're saying your god is telling gay people, whom he created as they are, deny yourselves. It's just ridiculous.

Eh, I guess I just do not see sex as so unbelievably crucial to a person's life that if you denied yourself you are repressing your entire identity. I don't see it as a worse burden than suppressing any other urge.

Reposting to show what I was replying to.

I feel sorry for your spouse. Or are you a priest/nun by any chance? Sexuality is a basic, integral part of human life.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 21:55 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

But what exactly is it, that makes it a sin? Is it the non-procreative sex? Is it two people sharing the same chromosomes being in a close, intimate, but non-sexual relationship? If so, lots of close friendships among same-sex friends may be called into question.

Or, the non-procreative sex of heterosexual couples. What exactly is the sin line?

+1000

The idea that a god would create people a certain way and then say, "oh by the way, you must deny your nature or you're going to hell, sorry" is crazy. I can't even imagine wanting to have a relationship with a god like that.

Being predisposed to a certain sin does not mean that you are going to hell. We are all predisposed to sin. People who are tempted to have sex outside of marriage are predisposed to the exact same type of sin.

Again, so what you're saying is that god created a certain class of people who happen to love others of their own sex and then tells them sorry, you have to suppress your nature for your entire life.

What kind of cruel god would do that?

I guess if you think of it that way, God is cruel no matter what. There are people who are born with all kinds of burdens- disability, blindness, etc. Why would God do that to them?

Anonymous

03/24/2016 21:53 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

But what exactly is it, that makes it a sin? Is it the non-procreative sex? Is it two people sharing the same chromosomes being in a close, intimate, but non-sexual relationship? If so, lots of close friendships among same-sex friends may be called into question.

Or, the non-procreative sex of heterosexual couples. What exactly is the sin line?

+1000

The idea that a god would create people a certain way and then say, "oh by the way, you must deny your nature or you're going to hell, sorry" is crazy. I can't even imagine wanting to have a relationship with a god like that.

what? Some people are born sociopaths. Would God say to the sociopath that it's ok to murder people because that's just how you were born? Or to the addict because they were born with an addictive personality that it's ok to fulfill their addiction because they were born with it?

We are all born with sin. We are supposed to try to overcome our sinful nature through Jesus. We all fail, everyday, in that endeavor, but we are not supposed to just succumb to it because we are born sinful.

Equating murder with love that two people willingly share is just ridiculous. There is no equivalence. There is no one hurt when two men or two women share a life together as partners. What, exactly, is the sin of love? Murdering someone = bad. An addict hurting herself = bad. Two people falling in love = where is the evil in that?

Just why do people get so worked up over sex? Where are all the people calling out the rich? Lust for money is a sin according tho the bible but how many people are out there to enact laws to suppress the worship of luxury?

I don't think Jesus said a word about sex but he did say this:

Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.…" (Matthew 19:21-23)

How many anti-gay posters are willing to sell all your posessions to give to the poor?

Anonymous

03/24/2016 21:00 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

But what exactly is it, that makes it a sin? Is it the non-procreative sex? Is it two people sharing the same chromosomes being in a close, intimate, but non-sexual relationship? If so, lots of close friendships among same-sex friends may be called into question.

Or, the non-procreative sex of heterosexual couples. What exactly is the sin line?

+1000

The idea that a god would create people a certain way and then say, "oh by the way, you must deny your nature or you're going to hell, sorry" is crazy. I can't even imagine wanting to have a relationship with a god like that.

what? Some people are born sociopaths. Would God say to the sociopath that it's ok to murder people because that's just how you were born? Or to the addict because they were born with an addictive personality that it's ok to fulfill their addiction because they were born with it?

We are all born with sin. We are supposed to try to overcome our sinful nature through Jesus. We all fail, everyday, in that endeavor, but we are not supposed to just succumb to it because we are born sinful.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 20:50 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for this admission - I sincerely appreciate this.

I think this is just why I can never reconcile religion (I'm not claiming that I think Christianity is illogical - I was raised Muslim, and think Islam is equally illogical).

But ethics like loving others as yourself, forgiving enemies, are hardly exclusively Christian values. They pre-date Christianity in other texts and teachings, and are not confined to any one belief system. I know that religion (and mostly the stuff about death) can bring a lot of comfort to a lot of people. But to be a decent, compassionate, kind human being... none of that need be bound to religion and/or belief in a deity.

I don't think any Christian thinks that you literally cannot live an ethical, compassionate life outside of Christianity. There are probably an infinite number of ways to reach an ethical, honorable life. Christianity is not about rules or just living a good life. Christianity is about a relationship with Jesus. Christianity is about finding God's love and getting peace, joy, and comfort from that. That's the whole point, and being ethical just goes hand in hand with it.

Right, but then Jesus wasn't special. His manner of death wasn't special. His teachings weren't special or distinct. Many religions and ideological teach about finding God's love, peace, joy, and comfort. All religions and cultures borrow from those before them. [I don't mean to pick on Christianity, but it is the subject of this thread.]

I have no idea what I'm getting at. I have an appreciation for people who still believe, but also admit that none of it really make sense or is that distinct/special. At least it shows they're thinking about things and engaging in some healthy thought.

I think Jesus was different from what came before. Lots of religions teach you to love your neighbor and to love your co-religionists. It's usually OK, however, to fight and kill your enemies. If you're really good, maybe God will smite them for you. Islam, for example, divides the world into dar al-Islam dar al-harb, which means "house of war."

Jesus' message was that it's easy to love your neighbor and "you will not get any reward in heaven for that." Instead he told us to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek when they attack us. "Only then can you be like your father in heaven, who loves the good and bad alike" (paraphrasing here). He underscored his point with parables like the one about the hated Samaritan who was more compassionate than his own (Jewish) people.

FWIW, I'm one of the liberal Protestants here, and am fine with homosexuality

Anonymous

03/24/2016 20:38 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Denying self is the entire gospel .

Anonymous

03/24/2016 20:32 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

But what exactly is it, that makes it a sin? Is it the non-procreative sex? Is it two people sharing the same chromosomes being in a close, intimate, but non-sexual relationship? If so, lots of close friendships among same-sex friends may be called into question.

Or, the non-procreative sex of heterosexual couples. What exactly is the sin line?

+1000

The idea that a god would create people a certain way and then say, "oh by the way, you must deny your nature or you're going to hell, sorry" is crazy. I can't even imagine wanting to have a relationship with a god like that.

Being predisposed to a certain sin does not mean that you are going to hell. We are all predisposed to sin. People who are tempted to have sex outside of marriage are predisposed to the exact same type of sin.

Again, so what you're saying is that god created a certain class of people who happen to love others of their own sex and then tells them sorry, you have to suppress your nature for your entire life.

What kind of cruel god would do that?

I guess if you think of it that way, God is cruel no matter what. There are people who are born with all kinds of burdens- disability, blindness, etc. Why would God do that to them?

You're equating loving someone of your own sex with blindness or bodily deformity?

Well if I had equated it with pedophilia or bestiality or something, you would have been even more offended!

So yes.

Again, please explain why you think a god would create 10% of the population a certain way only to order them not to have fulfilling sexual/romantic relationships ever. What is the point?

And if god made people disabled, at least he's not telling them they can't be who they are. He's not saying that it's a sin for an amputee to use equipment to walk. Or for deaf people to sign with one another. That is the difference. You're saying your god is telling gay people, whom he created as they are, deny yourselves. It's just ridiculous.

Eh, I guess I just do not see sex as so unbelievably crucial to a person's life that if you denied yourself you are repressing your entire identity. I don't see it as a worse burden than suppressing any other urge.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 20:29 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^Most people don't want the burden of being pure in mind and deed. That's why Jesus offers forgiveness. That said , it's dangerous to say and believe sin is fine. Jesus said the road to heaven is narrow and the road to hell is wide. Most people are probably going to hell.

What the majority want to believe is probably wrong. Thats why the road to hell is wide.

Go away, you're not clever enough to fit in here.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 20:27 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Satan totally says homosexual sex is not a sin .

If so, with that kind of power, then Satan (Shaytan in Islam) are gods, and none of the Abrahamic religions are monotheistic. And yes I know the whole "fallen angel" thing, but it's still a power that God gave to another sort of god, and God wants to see play out for his own amusement, which is not very compassionate at all. God can stop Satan/Shaytan - otherwise, they're not omnipotent. It's all sort of gross and disturbing.

Uhh... what are you talking about?

Made sense to me and I found it interesting, sorry you missed the point. The whole idea of God delegating power to djinn/angels/Satan was something that I had always wondered about Islam's purported monotheism. The "delegation" idea helps resolve this. Christians, depending on the denomination, believe that God delegated to Jesus or was incarnate in Jesus.

I think for many faiths, or at least the Christian denominations I'm familiar with, Satan isn't an actual being with horns and a pitchfork, any more than God is an old guy with a beard. Instead Satan is evil itself, which exists because we're fallen. Enter free will, where we choose to be good not evil. It's not a question of God simply killing off Satan/evil because humans are by nature flawed. God didn't create perfect beings who live in a perfect world, all so we could spend every moment worshipping him. No, he created us with challenges and choices, which makes us "human" in the real sense of the word.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 20:25 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:^^^Most people don't want the burden of being pure in mind and deed. That's why Jesus offers forgiveness. That said , it's dangerous to say and believe sin is fine. Jesus said the road to heaven is narrow and the road to hell is wide. Most people are probably going to hell.

Especially the rich.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 20:25 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:^^^Most people don't want the burden of being pure in mind and deed. That's why Jesus offers forgiveness. That said , it's dangerous to say and believe sin is fine. Jesus said the road to heaven is narrow and the road to hell is wide. Most people are probably going to hell.

What the majority want to believe is probably wrong. Thats why the road to hell is wide.

Anonymous

03/24/2016 20:24 Subject: How do you reconcile homosexuality and Christianity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a homosexual isn't a sin. Having homosexual sex is a sin.

So anal sex among a heterosexual married couple is a sin? Oral sex between a heterosexual couple is a sin?

I think the PP meant that two people of the same gender having sex is a sin, not how they do it... but I had a good giggle.

But what exactly is it, that makes it a sin? Is it the non-procreative sex? Is it two people sharing the same chromosomes being in a close, intimate, but non-sexual relationship? If so, lots of close friendships among same-sex friends may be called into question.

Or, the non-procreative sex of heterosexual couples. What exactly is the sin line?

+1000

The idea that a god would create people a certain way and then say, "oh by the way, you must deny your nature or you're going to hell, sorry" is crazy. I can't even imagine wanting to have a relationship with a god like that.

Being predisposed to a certain sin does not mean that you are going to hell. We are all predisposed to sin. People who are tempted to have sex outside of marriage are predisposed to the exact same type of sin.

Again, so what you're saying is that god created a certain class of people who happen to love others of their own sex and then tells them sorry, you have to suppress your nature for your entire life.

What kind of cruel god would do that?

I guess if you think of it that way, God is cruel no matter what. There are people who are born with all kinds of burdens- disability, blindness, etc. Why would God do that to them?

You're equating loving someone of your own sex with blindness or bodily deformity?

Well if I had equated it with pedophilia or bestiality or something, you would have been even more offended!

So yes.

Again, please explain why you think a god would create 10% of the population a certain way only to order them not to have fulfilling sexual/romantic relationships ever. What is the point?

And if god made people disabled, at least he's not telling them they can't be who they are. He's not saying that it's a sin for an amputee to use equipment to walk. Or for deaf people to sign with one another. That is the difference. You're saying your god is telling gay people, whom he created as they are, deny yourselves. It's just ridiculous.