Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. ...

If the Bethesda Magazine numbers are accurate, then not nearly as many are getting admitted to Ivies as from the local private schools. Certainly on a percentage-of-applicants basis, and perhaps even on an absolute-number basis.

On only a quick scan, it does look like some local publics can place 3-4 to Ivies and other selective schools. Percentage of applicants basis can be misleading...the same 25-30 kids from a school could be applying to the same 8-12 colleges. With common applications now, it doesn't require a lot more labor to apply to many more but does require several more application fees. Sidwell's nature won't be to publish that; however, just that would not cast the brightest light. You mean to tell me 25-30 kids from Sidwell don't apply to all 8 Ivies (or most) for a diversified shot? I'd chuckle to hear it suggested that isn't the case. That is certainly a demographic where a few hundred dollars more in application fees is not over burdensome. Is Sidwell lousy on a year where it goes 4 for 25 at an Ivy? I would not think so, and thinking so would be unfair.

That's just not the culture at Sidwell. Sure, there are some crazed parents who would encourage their kids to do that, but, for the most part, the kids wouldn't do it.

Anonymous wrote:We have an 8th grade son and have gone to open house nights at most of the local selective preps.

I think my dream for my son would be that he drops out of Stanford undergraduate and never gets his degree. That would mean something really good.

Or not . . . http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/30/business/the-narrative-frays-for-theranos-and-elizabeth-holmes.html?ref=business&_r=0

Anonymous wrote:The grades wratchet for the exclusive private schools is a factor, but so is the congestion of applicants. At a school like STA or Sidwell I would assume a number of the kids are also legacies at some Ivies. If an Ivy is the pearl for a kid, consider that STA or Sidwell is only going to get 2-5 into those schools each year, and if the kid is classmates with a preferences field -- a couple of well heeled legacies plus a recruited lacrosse kid or two -- then just forget it. That's another great irony: some of the very brightest and very best students are prejudiced at these colleges in a lot of instances. The GPA algorithm is fine and all, but doesn't carry the day many times.

Spot on. The cohort is a huge factor in admissions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone with a 3.5 is unlikely to be the best a teacher has seen in 10 years. And teacher recs aren't "profoundly influential" anywhere. Nice to have good ones, and certainly a factor, but hardly profound.

The big land grant colleges rely primarily on GPA and test scores, but the elite schools all read each application and teacher recommendations are incredibly important. Among a pool of very talented students, they are often decisive. This is particularly true for high schools that send a lot of students to elite schools and the admissions officers know that the teachers have a strong understanding of the students. And a great many admits are students who are particularly accomplished in one field/endeavor rather than the classic well rounded stereotype. So it is unusual for Harvard to admit a student with a very strong academic record in English/literature from an exceptional high school English program with Bs in calculus BC and AP physics.

1. Almost every college these days is looking for kids with "passion" rather than the well-rounded kid who got accepted in our day. Even places like UMD that you'd undoubtedly sniff at. Well-rounded kids have been out for over a decade. Sure, they're more focused on scores and GPA, but they still look to see if the kid has a direction.

2. It's not the teacher recommendations, it's the counselor recommendation. It's silly to think that a Sidwell teacher with 20 kids is going to do a better job than a public school teacher with 30 kids, of ticking off the boxes for "is this kid in the top 1%, top 10%, top half of the students you've taught?" And 2nd-tier private and public school teachers are perfectly capable of writing strong recommendations on the rest of the colleges' standard teacher rec forms.

2. If you're saying that the private school counselors have a good Rolodex that the public school counselors lack, then I agree with you.

Oh, honey, passion is out; grit and resilience are in.

And, FWIW, my 3.5 GPA 2300+ SAT Sidwell grad is at a top 5 school. But, honestly, this doesn't tell you all that much -- the ECs, recommendations and essays count for a lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell does limit applications to nine.

Probably a wise limit. If a kid cannot limit his pool of potential colleges to nine or fewer, he's not thinking carefully enough about the process. A blunderbuss effort to "win" by large numbers of applications suggests a lack of focus. It also would suggest the kid is trying to run up the score on admissions, which is a dumb game. Focus should be on quality of applications over quantity.

Plus, the "value add" of college counseling at independent schools is that the counselors have lots of time to work with the students and then to communicate and follow up directly with colleges, particularly in the regular application season. It's a lot easier to do that with a limited, focused list of schools instead of 15-20+ applications.

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell does limit applications to nine.

Probably a wise limit. If a kid cannot limit his pool of potential colleges to nine or fewer, he's not thinking carefully enough about the process. A blunderbuss effort to "win" by large numbers of applications suggests a lack of focus. It also would suggest the kid is trying to run up the score on admissions, which is a dumb game. Focus should be on quality of applications over quantity.

Sidwell does limit applications to nine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. ...

If the Bethesda Magazine numbers are accurate, then not nearly as many are getting admitted to Ivies as from the local private schools. Certainly on a percentage-of-applicants basis, and perhaps even on an absolute-number basis.

On only a quick scan, it does look like some local publics can place 3-4 to Ivies and other selective schools. Percentage of applicants basis can be misleading...the same 25-30 kids from a school could be applying to the same 8-12 colleges. With common applications now, it doesn't require a lot more labor to apply to many more but does require several more application fees. Sidwell's nature won't be to publish that; however, just that would not cast the brightest light. You mean to tell me 25-30 kids from Sidwell don't apply to all 8 Ivies (or most) for a diversified shot? I'd chuckle to hear it suggested that isn't the case. That is certainly a demographic where a few hundred dollars more in application fees is not over burdensome. Is Sidwell lousy on a year where it goes 4 for 25 at an Ivy? I would not think so, and thinking so would be unfair.

The application process is more complicated than you make out. The hooked kids -- legacies etc.-- often apply to only one HYPS school for Early Action and if accepted, tend to go to that school. My guess is that it mostly the unhooked kids who don't get in the first time who are applying to a diversified set of Ivies and playing the percentages game (and also the hooked kids who didn't get in early and may or may not be hooked at other schools).

+1. The hooked kids apply early action/decision to their hook school bc that is their best shot. Applying with the gen app pool really lessens their chance of getting in. Was told this by the admissions office at the ivy I attended.

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell limits applications? Limits the # of Ivies? How?

That's one stop sign I'd run. Sorry, the best interests of my kid wouldn't be dictated by a college counselor at any school.

They would tell you that you and your kid are foolish. No sane applicant would put all of his/her eggs in the same basket of highly selective schools, anymore than one should put all of one's savings portfolio into dot com stocks during a tech bubble.

Sidwell limits applications? Limits the # of Ivies? How?

That's one stop sign I'd run. Sorry, the best interests of my kid wouldn't be dictated by a college counselor at any school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. ...

If the Bethesda Magazine numbers are accurate, then not nearly as many are getting admitted to Ivies as from the local private schools. Certainly on a percentage-of-applicants basis, and perhaps even on an absolute-number basis.

On only a quick scan, it does look like some local publics can place 3-4 to Ivies and other selective schools. Percentage of applicants basis can be misleading...the same 25-30 kids from a school could be applying to the same 8-12 colleges. With common applications now, it doesn't require a lot more labor to apply to many more but does require several more application fees. Sidwell's nature won't be to publish that; however, just that would not cast the brightest light. You mean to tell me 25-30 kids from Sidwell don't apply to all 8 Ivies (or most) for a diversified shot? I'd chuckle to hear it suggested that isn't the case. That is certainly a demographic where a few hundred dollars more in application fees is not over burdensome. Is Sidwell lousy on a year where it goes 4 for 25 at an Ivy? I would not think so, and thinking so would be unfair.

The school's college office would not view application to all eight Ivys as a "diversified shot". Not by a long shot! Even for the top kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. ...

If the Bethesda Magazine numbers are accurate, then not nearly as many are getting admitted to Ivies as from the local private schools. Certainly on a percentage-of-applicants basis, and perhaps even on an absolute-number basis.

On only a quick scan, it does look like some local publics can place 3-4 to Ivies and other selective schools. Percentage of applicants basis can be misleading...the same 25-30 kids from a school could be applying to the same 8-12 colleges. With common applications now, it doesn't require a lot more labor to apply to many more but does require several more application fees. Sidwell's nature won't be to publish that; however, just that would not cast the brightest light. You mean to tell me 25-30 kids from Sidwell don't apply to all 8 Ivies (or most) for a diversified shot? I'd chuckle to hear it suggested that isn't the case. That is certainly a demographic where a few hundred dollars more in application fees is not over burdensome. Is Sidwell lousy on a year where it goes 4 for 25 at an Ivy? I would not think so, and thinking so would be unfair.

The application process is more complicated than you make out. The hooked kids -- legacies etc.-- often apply to only one HYPS school for Early Action and if accepted, tend to go to that school. My guess is that it mostly the unhooked kids who don't get in the first time who are applying to a diversified set of Ivies and playing the percentages game (and also the hooked kids who didn't get in early and may or may not be hooked at other schools).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. ...

If the Bethesda Magazine numbers are accurate, then not nearly as many are getting admitted to Ivies as from the local private schools. Certainly on a percentage-of-applicants basis, and perhaps even on an absolute-number basis.

On only a quick scan, it does look like some local publics can place 3-4 to Ivies and other selective schools. Percentage of applicants basis can be misleading...the same 25-30 kids from a school could be applying to the same 8-12 colleges. With common applications now, it doesn't require a lot more labor to apply to many more but does require several more application fees. Sidwell's nature won't be to publish that; however, just that would not cast the brightest light. You mean to tell me 25-30 kids from Sidwell don't apply to all 8 Ivies (or most) for a diversified shot? I'd chuckle to hear it suggested that isn't the case. That is certainly a demographic where a few hundred dollars more in application fees is not over burdensome. Is Sidwell lousy on a year where it goes 4 for 25 at an Ivy? I would not think so, and thinking so would be unfair.

That is DEFINITELY not the case. Maybe 3-4 Ivies, but Sidwell limits its students to 9 applications and the counselors would never allow eight of those applications to be to Ivies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. ...

If the Bethesda Magazine numbers are accurate, then not nearly as many are getting admitted to Ivies as from the local private schools. Certainly on a percentage-of-applicants basis, and perhaps even on an absolute-number basis.

On only a quick scan, it does look like some local publics can place 3-4 to Ivies and other selective schools. Percentage of applicants basis can be misleading...the same 25-30 kids from a school could be applying to the same 8-12 colleges. With common applications now, it doesn't require a lot more labor to apply to many more but does require several more application fees. Sidwell's nature won't be to publish that; however, just that would not cast the brightest light. You mean to tell me 25-30 kids from Sidwell don't apply to all 8 Ivies (or most) for a diversified shot? I'd chuckle to hear it suggested that isn't the case. That is certainly a demographic where a few hundred dollars more in application fees is not over burdensome. Is Sidwell lousy on a year where it goes 4 for 25 at an Ivy? I would not think so, and thinking so would be unfair.

I'm not sure I follow the thrust of your post. I probably need my afternoon coffee.

I hear your point that kids from Sidwell and other private schools might apply to multiple Ivies, which can make it challenging to get an apples-to-apples comparison of admissions rates. But given the significant wealth in this area, I suspect many students at local public schools -- especially at the top end of the class because of correlation with SES -- will also have enough family money to be able to afford to apply to multiple Ivies.

On a tangentially related topic, I also suspect many of those public school students will have legacy hooks too. It seems to be a common assumption around here that many private school kids accepted to top colleges have legacy advantages, and I don't doubt that's a common factor. But people often seem to ignore the fact that there are plenty of Ivy-educated parents in this area who send kids to the many strong public schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. ...

If the Bethesda Magazine numbers are accurate, then not nearly as many are getting admitted to Ivies as from the local private schools. Certainly on a percentage-of-applicants basis, and perhaps even on an absolute-number basis.

On only a quick scan, it does look like some local publics can place 3-4 to Ivies and other selective schools. Percentage of applicants basis can be misleading...the same 25-30 kids from a school could be applying to the same 8-12 colleges. With common applications now, it doesn't require a lot more labor to apply to many more but does require several more application fees. Sidwell's nature won't be to publish that; however, just that would not cast the brightest light. You mean to tell me 25-30 kids from Sidwell don't apply to all 8 Ivies (or most) for a diversified shot? I'd chuckle to hear it suggested that isn't the case. That is certainly a demographic where a few hundred dollars more in application fees is not over burdensome. Is Sidwell lousy on a year where it goes 4 for 25 at an Ivy? I would not think so, and thinking so would be unfair.