Anonymous wrote:I taught for 5 years before going back to school to pursue a different career. I taught middle school at a private school. Frankly, it was a pretty cushy job. I got to work at about 7:30 and left by 4:15 every day, except for the one day a week I had dismissal duty and left around 4:30ish. I almost always had time to get my planning done during the day during free periods. Most days, I actually taught 4-5 class periods, leaving at least a couple hours for getting other work done. I had lunch duty once a week but the other days I was free at lunch time, except that I was expected to stay on campus. I took work home only occasionally.

The pay was terrible, but I had the summers off (and I was really off - did ZERO work for at least 8 weeks), winter break, spring break, all the holidays... It was a pretty sweet lifestyle.

Where did you teach? Because I want to teach there too!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the extra work teachers say they do sounds low level and that is probably why the barrier to entry and the pay is low. Making copies? Buying supplies? Someone said they spent 3 weeks I. August setting up their room. Grading papers takes 1 minute per student according to one poster.
There is no higher level higher paid job that expects people to do that. Seems like a lot of organizational and time management things that they do, aka busy work, that could be handled by someone without a degree and free up teachers to teach.

I do my own copies.

I think that you are confusing cause and effect.

You are not claiming you spend hours outside of your regular and paid hours to do menial tasks like this. That is what I'm talking about. If you re read the thread, many of the things teachers have to do out of work hours are not high level skilled things.

I agree with you on whether it's a cause or effect situation.

As a teacher I agree with what you said, however it's important to note that it's not just menial work that teachers have to do on their own time, but work that is absolutely fundamental such as lesson planning which takes hours and hours a week and can in no way be done during the regular school day. The fact is school administrators know that the basic work that teachers need to do just can't be done during school hours, and teachers are just expected to do it all on their own time, and not mind.

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the extra work teachers say they do sounds low level and that is probably why the barrier to entry and the pay is low. Making copies? Buying supplies? Someone said they spent 3 weeks I. August setting up their room. Grading papers takes 1 minute per student according to one poster.
There is no higher level higher paid job that expects people to do that. Seems like a lot of organizational and time management things that they do, aka busy work, that could be handled by someone without a degree and free up teachers to teach.

Yes you are right. Which is why the focus should be on hiring more aides instead of teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I simply don't understand these threads about how easy/hard teachers' jobs are. What is this about? I don't see similar threads about other professions.

In any profession, aren't there people who work incredibly hard and others who do the bare minimum. What am I missing?

Teachers are very public about wanting raises. That is all. They are constantly talking about how hard their job is and why they need a raise. I agree it is though, but what I've never understood is why they don't fight for better working conditions. It's always about money rather than improved working conditions.

I always said that I didn't want a raise, I wanted a secretary!

Teacher here and I agree with the above. I always get frustrated that the focus tends to be on paying teachers more rather than reducing the work load - possibly by hiring more aides. Would I like to make more money? Of course, who wouldn't? But when I decided to become a teacher I knew very well what I would be making and decided to go into the field anyways. What I truly did not understand was just how time consuming this job is. Sure you could save the problem by paying teacher more to march the work load, but I suspect that wouldn't be satisfactory to most, because you're by and large dealing with people who when making their career decisions, choose what they perceived to be a nice work life balance (however wrongly) over making a higher income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Um, maybe if you let me spend my time instructing and planning for effective instruction our results would be different?? But no, coordinating a standardized test is way more important.

My child's elementary school in MCPS has a "staff development" teacher who is supposed to be in charge of all of the testing -- I think. Is that unusual?

I am the 2nd ESOL teacher PP. There is one person designated at each school to be test coordinator. It can be any staff member although it usually is one who is not responsible for teaching students. At my school it is a person who does not instruct students. But she has decided that ESOL teachers need to officially coordinate ACCESS, the statewide ESOL test. Coordinating a test is hugely time consuming. It involves everything from attending training (which we don't get sub time for), creating a schedule with many moving parts, inventorying test materials, training other staff members involved, scanning tests in and out, putting labels on tests, creating testing buckets for each testing group, sharpening a ton of pencils (for real) and then boxing up all tests at the end of the window. Plus then there's the actual testing window, along with us being pulled to be test administrator or proctor for PARCC, MSA science. We basically don't teach at all 3rd quarter. We also need to give grades for our students so it's a mad dash to get any work samples from students to grade. It's so unfair to them to get graded on something they didn't receive sufficient instruction on.

I don't understand why we are the only staff members directly responsible for instructing students who have to coordinate a test. They would never require 3rd-5th grade teachers to coordinate PARCC. Nor should they be expected to do that.

My principal has not yet figured out that our test coordinator has delegated much of her responsibilities, yet still doesn't have time to do her actual non test coordinator job because she micro manages the work she has delegated. Since she is the official STC she can't leave us alone with the test materials so she sits in the room overseeing us while we work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Um, maybe if you let me spend my time instructing and planning for effective instruction our results would be different?? But no, coordinating a standardized test is way more important.

My child's elementary school in MCPS has a "staff development" teacher who is supposed to be in charge of all of the testing -- I think. Is that unusual?

Maybe not in a wealthy school district. In mine, the ESOL teachers rotate each year as the testing coordinator in charge of ESOL testing. The rest of the testing- PARCC, MSA Science, etc is done by our reading specialist. During all of it, she doesn't teach.

Anonymous wrote:

Um, maybe if you let me spend my time instructing and planning for effective instruction our results would be different?? But no, coordinating a standardized test is way more important.

My child's elementary school in MCPS has a "staff development" teacher who is supposed to be in charge of all of the testing -- I think. Is that unusual?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect my job working in a Title 1 school is harder than in a non-Title 1 school. We are constantly under pressure to bring up the test scores. They don't care about progress either. I teach ESOL and if I have a non-English speaker in September who ends up reading on a level G at the end of the year, that is terrific progress. But I will get blamed for that student not reading at grade level no matter where they started. If the benchmark for that grade is a J, then I've failed. This is why it is hard. Multiply this times 40 students and you get the idea. I am supposed to be supportive and encouraging as a teacher but apparently the admin doesn't have to be. They just stand around judging.

Yup. Another ESOL teacher here. I have 65 students this year and I work at the elementary level. You hit the nail on the head with your comments about how progress doesn't count. If any student is below grade level then that's our fault.

I was assigned test coordinator responsibilities this year and when I discussed my concerns about how that will take time away from instruction and planning for instruction, I was basically told "oh well". Considering ESOL is the focus of our SIP I would have thought that admin would want us focusing our time and efforts on, you know, actually teaching. But apparently they're pretty much only interested in *saying* they're taking action and making us spend hours analyzing data and writing the SIP plan to show their bosses they're taking action. Then when our students don't make the progress they're expected to make we'll have to sit in meeting after meeting discussing *why* that didn't happen.

Um, maybe if you let me spend my time instructing and planning for effective instruction our results would be different?? But no, coordinating a standardized test is way more important.

1st ESOL teacher here. I was testing coordinator 2 years ago and when we added up the time it took us to test our ESOL students plus the MSA testing, it was about 7 weeks of testing. Last year with PARCC testing it took about 8 weeks total. The PARCC test was last March and May and the results still haven't be shared with us. Hmmmm. How useful is the data if it takes 9 months for us to get it? Oh, it isn't useful. It's just used to judge us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect my job working in a Title 1 school is harder than in a non-Title 1 school. We are constantly under pressure to bring up the test scores. They don't care about progress either. I teach ESOL and if I have a non-English speaker in September who ends up reading on a level G at the end of the year, that is terrific progress. But I will get blamed for that student not reading at grade level no matter where they started. If the benchmark for that grade is a J, then I've failed. This is why it is hard. Multiply this times 40 students and you get the idea. I am supposed to be supportive and encouraging as a teacher but apparently the admin doesn't have to be. They just stand around judging.

Yup. Another ESOL teacher here. I have 65 students this year and I work at the elementary level. You hit the nail on the head with your comments about how progress doesn't count. If any student is below grade level then that's our fault.

I was assigned test coordinator responsibilities this year and when I discussed my concerns about how that will take time away from instruction and planning for instruction, I was basically told "oh well". Considering ESOL is the focus of our SIP I would have thought that admin would want us focusing our time and efforts on, you know, actually teaching. But apparently they're pretty much only interested in *saying* they're taking action and making us spend hours analyzing data and writing the SIP plan to show their bosses they're taking action. Then when our students don't make the progress they're expected to make we'll have to sit in meeting after meeting discussing *why* that didn't happen.



Um, maybe if you let me spend my time instructing and planning for effective instruction our results would be different?? But no, coordinating a standardized test is way more important.

Yikes. Sorry to hear that. It doesn't seem to make sense since test coordinator takes an inordinate amount of time. Why can't your assistant principal do it?

Anonymous wrote:I suspect my job working in a Title 1 school is harder than in a non-Title 1 school. We are constantly under pressure to bring up the test scores. They don't care about progress either. I teach ESOL and if I have a non-English speaker in September who ends up reading on a level G at the end of the year, that is terrific progress. But I will get blamed for that student not reading at grade level no matter where they started. If the benchmark for that grade is a J, then I've failed. This is why it is hard. Multiply this times 40 students and you get the idea. I am supposed to be supportive and encouraging as a teacher but apparently the admin doesn't have to be. They just stand around judging.

Yup. Another ESOL teacher here. I have 65 students this year and I work at the elementary level. You hit the nail on the head with your comments about how progress doesn't count. If any student is below grade level then that's our fault.

I was assigned test coordinator responsibilities this year and when I discussed my concerns about how that will take time away from instruction and planning for instruction, I was basically told "oh well". Considering ESOL is the focus of our SIP I would have thought that admin would want us focusing our time and efforts on, you know, actually teaching. But apparently they're pretty much only interested in *saying* they're taking action and making us spend hours analyzing data and writing the SIP plan to show their bosses they're taking action. Then when our students don't make the progress they're expected to make we'll have to sit in meeting after meeting discussing *why* that didn't happen.

Um, maybe if you let me spend my time instructing and planning for effective instruction our results would be different?? But no, coordinating a standardized test is way more important.

I suspect my job working in a Title 1 school is harder than in a non-Title 1 school. We are constantly under pressure to bring up the test scores. They don't care about progress either. I teach ESOL and if I have a non-English speaker in September who ends up reading on a level G at the end of the year, that is terrific progress. But I will get blamed for that student not reading at grade level no matter where they started. If the benchmark for that grade is a J, then I've failed. This is why it is hard. Multiply this times 40 students and you get the idea. I am supposed to be supportive and encouraging as a teacher but apparently the admin doesn't have to be. They just stand around judging.

Anonymous wrote:

what?

Can you read?

As a teacher, this is not what I want for my children. And yes, it is my money. I'll use it in a way I feel is best for my children.

The system forces teachers to become robots. It punishes us for looking out for kids. We're not free to do what's best for them.

again - NOT a choice for my own children

Not a choice for your money, that is. Your children will make their own choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was little evidence my child's teachers were working as hard as some of these descriptions. Some were. Others fled the buidling within 2 minutes of the final bell and couldn't correct work within two weeks.

If you're a good teacher, you aren't zipping out after the kids and giving feedback weeks later. But isn't the same true of any profession? We all know folks who phone it in. There's probably a colleague who comes to mind. Doesn't mean the others aren't hard working and competent. I had a doctor who misdiagnosed me twice (and I almost died) during her limited holiday hours. I don 't assume all doctors are rushing to leave the office and just care about the money.

Sadly, most doctors are in it for the money and rushing to leave the office. In fact, most college grads want to go to medical school and go through the hoops because they want to make decent income not necessarily because they care about treating the sick etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We invest in a college savings for our two kids. I have repeatedly told them that IF they go into education, we will not be paying for them.

How sad, eh?

I would never want my children to be in a profession where so many question what we do and how we do it.

never

Yes, it is sad to attach such strings to the money you intend for your children's college education. But it's your money.

what?

Can you read?

As a teacher, this is not what I want for my children. And yes, it is my money. I'll use it in a way I feel is best for my children.

The system forces teachers to become robots. It punishes us for looking out for kids. We're not free to do what's best for them.

again - NOT a choice for my own children

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We invest in a college savings for our two kids. I have repeatedly told them that IF they go into education, we will not be paying for them.

How sad, eh?

I would never want my children to be in a profession where so many question what we do and how we do it.

never

Yes, it is sad to attach such strings to the money you intend for your children's college education. But it's your money.

No, you misunderstood! Read the bold please....