Maybe I am coming from a different cultural perspective...I am Eastern European but I have no issue with my parents of my in- laws or any family member or friend disciplining my child when it's needed.

This is not a toddler. A four year old should know not to stand on the arms of furniture.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BIL was out of line. There are a million gentle ways to ask a child to get down from a couch. Trying to grab her legs? I would have freaked and I'm amazed at the amount of composure you showed.

OP here. The other thing is, all he said was "no...NO..." before advancing toward her and grabbing her. It is possible that my 4YO didn't know what he was asking of her.

Really? Your FOUR year old didn't understand that she shouldn't be doing that? Really?!

No kidding! Your four year old doesn't know not to stand on the arm of the couch or chair?

Do your kids always act this way to being corrected?

You and your kids sound completely over the top. Crying because she was corrected? The other one crying because.....?

Anonymous wrote:Surprised at some of the responses here. Do your 4 year olds really not climb on the furniture? What sort of robot children are you raising?

I have a 2 yr old and 3.5 yr old. They both know they can climb to get onto furniture bc they're short. But yes they both know damn well they can't climb around on furniture for fun. The 3 yr old would never do it. The 2 yr old sometimes starts but we catch her and she looks guilty every time. They're not robots at all. They are just being taught what is for playing on and what is for sitting on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OMG I can't believe some of you people. You are going to find yourselves with teenage kids who feel like they aren't supported by you and can't count on you. I truly feel sorry for them.


+ a million

+ another million


Actually, you are wrong. People who parent like you are going to end up with rebelious teenagers who do whatever they want, or precious snowflakes who melt tue first time they have a coach correct them or a teacher grade them harshly or a boss who lets them know that the world does not revolve around them.


If my kid faces adversity, he will know that he can come to me and he will fell safe and supported and loved. But your kids will not. Your kids are going to end up with kids who feel they can't turn to you. They will need to fend for themselves. They are learning that early, based on what some of you post here. They will not feel close to you, though.

I agree. Your job as a parent is to be the child's safe place. Not side with an asshole BIL who yells at your kids for no good reason.

No.

Your job as a parent is to teach your child how to function in this world in a socially acceptable manner so the can be a functional adult. You do this by teaching them to behave, to regulate their behavior and to overcome failure and work through adversity you teach them that they are part of a bigger world and society, and there are norms of behaviors and common manners that allow us to function as a society.

You teach them how to be wrong and to learn from their mistakes so they can become better people. You teach them how to come up with better outcomes when they are wrong or make mistakes.

Giving them structure and teaching them to behave is far more loving and supportive than letting them do whatever the heck they want and showing them by your every example that they are always right, no matter what, even if they are actually wrong.

That kind of parenting does children a huge disservice.

Actually, research shows that being warm, supportive, and authoritative is what raises healthy children. Not being rigid and punitive and always insisting that they behave perfectly, and tolerating other adults acting physically aggressively towards them.

You can do all I said in a warm and loving way.

Research also shows that not setting boundaries and telling your child they are always right does not raise healthy children either.

Gee, OP, grow up and teach your kids appropriate behavior. It's not appropriate to stand on the arms of couches, particularly away from home. If you have an old couch at home that you let them climb on, fine. Tell them this is the only couch they can climb on. Teach them that there are consequences to their behavior.

The BIL doesn't sound like he was out to torment and harm the child. I do not agree with corporal punishment in any way, but I am strict about teaching appropriate behavior. That wasn't a two year old standing on the couch arm, it was a child old enough to know better. And that child didn't listen when words were used. Swooping in and taking the child off physically is not wrong, in this case. I'd gently put my hand on the child's arm and firmly tell them to get down. Your BIL is not so gentle. But that's life. Not everyone will treat you and you kids with kid gloves. They need to learn that. YOU need to learn that.

Your overreaction and escalation was to grab the child and rush out of the room, which is a fear/flee reaction that the child picked up on. The kid was just startled and angry that she didn't get to do what she wanted, at first. Then you really scared her. And then what? Your husband's protective side came out, because you guys got scared? And the BIL got defensive because you're all acting like a normal household rule about furniture climbing is somehow crazy and wrong?

And you wanted to leave, just because of that? Do you run away in fear from every minor situation you face? Do you see what you're teaching your kids? "We don't have to follow rules, and we run away crying when other people have a problem with our behavior. And Mommy thinks that's fine." An adult response would be to calmly go over the reasons we don't stand on the arms of couches.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear uncle's side of the story.

And I could only imagine what OP's post would have been had BIL been standing there while precious child fell off the couch arm and actually hurt themselves.

If he had just picked her up and put her on the floor, I doubt OP would be here. But instead he pinned her down and started yelling like a maniac.

OMG you are melodramatic and obviously prone to exaggeration, and you weren't even there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OMG I can't believe some of you people. You are going to find yourselves with teenage kids who feel like they aren't supported by you and can't count on you. I truly feel sorry for them.


+ a million

+ another million


Actually, you are wrong. People who parent like you are going to end up with rebelious teenagers who do whatever they want, or precious snowflakes who melt tue first time they have a coach correct them or a teacher grade them harshly or a boss who lets them know that the world does not revolve around them

If my kid faces adversity, he will know that he can come to me and he will fell safe and supported and loved. But your kids will not. Your kids are going to end up with kids who feel they can't turn to you. They will need to fend for themselves. They are learning that early, based on what some of you post here. They will not feel close to you, though.

I agree. Your job as a parent is to be the child's safe place. Not side with an asshole BIL who yells at your kids for no good reason.

No.

Your job as a parent is to teach your child how to function in this world in a socially acceptable manner so the can be a functional adult. You do this by teaching them to behave, to regulate their behavior and to overcome failure and work through adversity you teach them that they are part of a bigger world and society, and there are norms of behaviors and common manners that allow us to function as a society.

You teach them how to be wrong and to learn from their mistakes so they can become better people. You teach them how to come up with better outcomes when they are wrong or make mistakes.

Giving them structure and teaching them to behave is far more loving and supportive than letting them do whatever the heck they want and showing them by your every example that they are always right, no matter what, even if they are actually wrong.

That kind of parenting does children a huge disservice.

Actually, research shows that being warm, supportive, and authoritative is what raises healthy children. Not being rigid and punitive and always insisting that they behave perfectly, and tolerating other adults acting physically aggressively towards them.

+1. That and setting clear boundaries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not stay over again - not because BIL is a danger, but because you obviously have different parenting philosophies and also because he has anger management issues. It creates an all around stressful environment. Why go through it during a so called vacation? I'm a very relaxed parent and yes my kid acted out when she was young. SIL said to me "If she was my kid, I'd beat her into submission" - we didn't stay at their house again and our relationship was never the same. Whatever.

+1 on the first sentence.

You guys clearly have really, really different parenting philosophies. It also sounds like your children's behavior gets on your BIL's nerves. You guys need to stay in a hotel in the future. I "discipline" other folks children. If any of my nieces (real and pretend) were standing on my couch, I would certainly tell them to get down. Your 4 year old KNEW what he was saying, and knew she was to get down off of the couch. I also have no problem "helping" them get down either. I would take them by the hand and say, "Let Auntie help you down".

ALL of the adults overreacted in the situation. Retreating to the room over this to discuss leaving suggests that your family is dramatic as hell, OR there is some history and you guys don't mesh well.

Saying no and lifting her down is very different from pinning her down and screaming.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OMG I can't believe some of you people. You are going to find yourselves with teenage kids who feel like they aren't supported by you and can't count on you. I truly feel sorry for them.


+ a million

+ another million


Actually, you are wrong. People who parent like you are going to end up with rebelious teenagers who do whatever they want, or precious snowflakes who melt tue first time they have a coach correct them or a teacher grade them harshly or a boss who lets them know that the world does not revolve around them.


If my kid faces adversity, he will know that he can come to me and he will fell safe and supported and loved. But your kids will not. Your kids are going to end up with kids who feel they can't turn to you. They will need to fend for themselves. They are learning that early, based on what some of you post here. They will not feel close to you, though.

I agree. Your job as a parent is to be the child's safe place. Not side with an asshole BIL who yells at your kids for no good reason.

No.

Your job as a parent is to teach your child how to function in this world in a socially acceptable manner so the can be a functional adult. You do this by teaching them to behave, to regulate their behavior and to overcome failure and work through adversity you teach them that they are part of a bigger world and society, and there are norms of behaviors and common manners that allow us to function as a society.

You teach them how to be wrong and to learn from their mistakes so they can become better people. You teach them how to come up with better outcomes when they are wrong or make mistakes.

Giving them structure and teaching them to behave is far more loving and supportive than letting them do whatever the heck they want and showing them by your every example that they are always right, no matter what, even if they are actually wrong.

That kind of parenting does children a huge disservice.

Actually, research shows that being warm, supportive, and authoritative is what raises healthy children. Not being rigid and punitive and always insisting that they behave perfectly, and tolerating other adults acting physically aggressively towards them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what BIL did initially was fine. Then you escalated. Then they escalated. Why did you cry?!

OP here. I did not cry. My kids did. What did I do to escalate?

Sorry - I misread about the crying for you. You escalated by intervening and running out of the room with her when he was handling it.

PP, I think you are the one adding the touch of drama here, making it sound like OP sprinted out of the room in anguish. Of course OP removed the child from the room. BIL - while right about getting the child off the sofa arm - had at that point lost control of his temper and his behavior and was about to get physical with a 4yo. Leaving the room so everyone could settle down was the only reasonable option. BIL himself seemed to have recognized that he handled himself badly. Why can't you, PP?

OP, you handled it correctly. Ideally you would have been the one on the scene to tell your child "no" first, but you did what you could with the situation. I would have been furious too. We don't manhandle our kids, and we sure as hell don't manhandle anyone else's. It's possible to be firm with our acting like a domineering a$$hole.

Actually, what OP described in her original and subsequent posts do lead to the image of OP sprinting out of the room in anguish, followed by the entire family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what BIL did initially was fine. Then you escalated. Then they escalated. Why did you cry?!

OP here. I did not cry. My kids did. What did I do to escalate?

Sorry - I misread about the crying for you. You escalated by intervening and running out of the room with her when he was handling it.

PP, I think you are the one adding the touch of drama here, making it sound like OP sprinted out of the room in anguish. Of course OP removed the child from the room. BIL - while right about getting the child off the sofa arm - had at that point lost control of his temper and his behavior and was about to get physical with a 4yo. Leaving the room so everyone could settle down was the only reasonable option. BIL himself seemed to have recognized that he handled himself badly. Why can't you, PP?

OP, you handled it correctly. Ideally you would have been the one on the scene to tell your child "no" first, but you did what you could with the situation. I would have been furious too. We don't manhandle our kids, and we sure as hell don't manhandle anyone else's. It's possible to be firm with our acting like a domineering a$$hole.

Anonymous wrote:I would not stay over again - not because BIL is a danger, but because you obviously have different parenting philosophies and also because he has anger management issues. It creates an all around stressful environment. Why go through it during a so called vacation? I'm a very relaxed parent and yes my kid acted out when she was young. SIL said to me "If she was my kid, I'd beat her into submission" - we didn't stay at their house again and our relationship was never the same. Whatever.

+1 on the first sentence.

You guys clearly have really, really different parenting philosophies. It also sounds like your children's behavior gets on your BIL's nerves. You guys need to stay in a hotel in the future. I "discipline" other folks children. If any of my nieces (real and pretend) were standing on my couch, I would certainly tell them to get down. Your 4 year old KNEW what he was saying, and knew she was to get down off of the couch. I also have no problem "helping" them get down either. I would take them by the hand and say, "Let Auntie help you down".

ALL of the adults overreacted in the situation. Retreating to the room over this to discuss leaving suggests that your family is dramatic as hell, OR there is some history and you guys don't mesh well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OMG I can't believe some of you people. You are going to find yourselves with teenage kids who feel like they aren't supported by you and can't count on you. I truly feel sorry for them.


+ a million

+ another million


Actually, you are wrong. People who parent like you are going to end up with rebelious teenagers who do whatever they want, or precious snowflakes who melt tue first time they have a coach correct them or a teacher grade them harshly or a boss who lets them know that the world does not revolve around them.


If my kid faces adversity, he will know that he can come to me and he will fell safe and supported and loved. But your kids will not. Your kids are going to end up with kids who feel they can't turn to you. They will need to fend for themselves. They are learning that early, based on what some of you post here. They will not feel close to you, though.

I agree. Your job as a parent is to be the child's safe place. Not side with an asshole BIL who yells at your kids for no good reason.

No.

Your job as a parent is to teach your child how to function in this world in a socially acceptable manner so the can be a functional adult. You do this by teaching them to behave, to regulate their behavior and to overcome failure and work through adversity you teach them that they are part of a bigger world and society, and there are norms of behaviors and common manners that allow us to function as a society.

You teach them how to be wrong and to learn from their mistakes so they can become better people. You teach them how to come up with better outcomes when they are wrong or make mistakes.

Giving them structure and teaching them to behave is far more loving and supportive than letting them do whatever the heck they want and showing them by your every example that they are always right, no matter what, even if they are actually wrong.

That kind of parenting does children a huge disservice.

And apparently it's YOUR job to teach us how to parent.

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OMG I can't believe some of you people. You are going to find yourselves with teenage kids who feel like they aren't supported by you and can't count on you. I truly feel sorry for them.


+ a million

+ another million


Actually, you are wrong. People who parent like you are going to end up with rebelious teenagers who do whatever they want, or precious snowflakes who melt tue first time they have a coach correct them or a teacher grade them harshly or a boss who lets them know that the world does not revolve around them.


If my kid faces adversity, he will know that he can come to me and he will fell safe and supported and loved. But your kids will not. Your kids are going to end up with kids who feel they can't turn to you. They will need to fend for themselves. They are learning that early, based on what some of you post here. They will not feel close to you, though.

I agree. Your job as a parent is to be the child's safe place. Not side with an asshole BIL who yells at your kids for no good reason.

No.

Your job as a parent is to teach your child how to function in this world in a socially acceptable manner so the can be a functional adult. You do this by teaching them to behave, to regulate their behavior and to overcome failure and work through adversity you teach them that they are part of a bigger world and society, and there are norms of behaviors and common manners that allow us to function as a society.

You teach them how to be wrong and to learn from their mistakes so they can become better people. You teach them how to come up with better outcomes when they are wrong or make mistakes.

Giving them structure and teaching them to behave is far more loving and supportive than letting them do whatever the heck they want and showing them by your every example that they are always right, no matter what, even if they are actually wrong.

That kind of parenting does children a huge disservice.