Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a very decent and sensible person. I'm sort you are going through this. Trust your gut and RUN fast.

This. Once a cheater always a cheater. Thank god she called you and you do not have kids with him.

Not true.

And based on the OP's timeline his 'cheating' ended well before they got together IRL and were married.

What he did was wrong, no doubt about it. But frankly so was what that supposed sincere, with no hidden agenda, woman did.

No, it wasn't well before. It was when they moved in together and he couldn't easily maintain his previous lifestyle anymore. And they were together enough to be engaged before the move.
And if that woman hadn't told OP the truth, she wouldn't know what kind of man she was married to until it was maybe too late (harder to disentangle herself if that's what she chooses to do, etc.).

Anonymous wrote:He told the OW he was single, so? He was. You were not married, so where is the issue? You want to break up your marriage based on something that happened before you got married? I'd run if I were him, before you have kids together...

OP, did you do anything before you got married that he does not know about? Anything at all?

Let's check back in a few years, I bet they now have kids, she wants out, wants $$ for support, etc. and she has a new guy quickly.

This poster is such a jerk.

He told the OW he was single, so? He was. You were not married, so where is the issue? You want to break up your marriage based on something that happened before you got married? I'd run if I were him, before you have kids together...

OP, did you do anything before you got married that he does not know about? Anything at all?

Let's check back in a few years, I bet they now have kids, she wants out, wants $$ for support, etc. and she has a new guy quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a very decent and sensible person. I'm sort you are going through this. Trust your gut and RUN fast.

This. Once a cheater always a cheater. Thank god she called you and you do not have kids with him.

Not true.

And based on the OP's timeline his 'cheating' ended well before they got together IRL and were married.

What he did was wrong, no doubt about it. But frankly so was what that supposed sincere, with no hidden agenda, woman did.

Broken trust is a very big deal. Let's suppose this fellow has had a real epiphany as a result of getting caught this time ... he never, never, never betrays OP's trust ever again over the next 60+ years. But how will OP really ever know that is the case? She will have to travel forward knowing this guy is capable of hurtful behavior and she will have to wonder whether he is where he says he is and with whom. Even after years pass, she will still have to consider odd events or statements in ways that she would never have done but for recent events. And she should.

So OP is really having to decide whether having that shadow hanging over the marriage will change the joy and partnership and future she originally planned on. Even if he never does it again. Add to that the very real possibility that he will be dishonest again given that he has proven to not have an internal problem with doing so.

Not worth it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think he did nothing wrong. He hasnt cheated since you were married. That's what counts. Until then fair game

I wonder about this too. I mean, cheating is an awful thing. But is it THAT bad if it happened before he married? If he is committed and faithful now when married? Yes, it was a hurtful, selfish thing to do, but it sounds like he stopped it before they got married.

You're missing the point. It wasn't just cheating. It wasn't a one-night stand when he was drunk. He continued a sexual and romantic relationship with another woman - also lying to her! - while he was engaged to OP, and also continued to flirt and have sexual conversations with other women during the same time period (can't remember if OP said they were by email, text, online). That's not just cheating - that's having another entire life that OP knew nothing about. That takes a lot of deception to pull off. He told OP he wanted to be a "better person" and shed his old ways with her. She's not his savior; that's not her responsibility. She can choose to stay or go, but this is his problem (and it's a major problem) to fix if he wants there to be any hope of staying married to OP. OP is not AT ALL wrong in feeling like this is a big fucking deal.

Believe me, I've BTDT. I found out while we were engaged, worked through it, thought he'd "changed", and got married as planned. It was another 11 years before I learned that he started up again with the old behavior within our first two years of marriage.

Anonymous wrote:I think he did nothing wrong. He hasnt cheated since you were married. That's what counts. Until then fair game

If he had believed what he was doing was fair, he would've told her and not hidden it from her. He knew that she wouldn't consider his actions okay, but that didn't stop him and that's the problem.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This is good food for thought. As I am considering both options, to stay and to leave, I have been doing a lot of research, and post-nuptial agreements is an area I have looked into. Specifically, they can be structured with an "infidelity clause," so if one party is unfaithful (again), it is documented what the financial and legal stipulations are in a divorce proceeding.

In discussion with my husband and him asking what would make me feel better about trying to reconcile, I told him about the documents and clause. I said that if I stayed and we tried to move forward in the marriage, that a smart move might be to structure an agreement. A clause could be included so that, the betrayed spouse, were infidelity to reoccur, would receive, for example, 75% of the wayward spouse's retirement accounts/joint savings and assets, along with alimony. I told him this could work both ways and if I cheated on him (which aside, I would never do, but showing the equal fairness of the contract) he would be eligible to 75% of my retirement accounts/joint savings and assets, plus alimony. We make about the same salary and have similar earning potential, so there isn't a potential imbalance here.

While this on the surface seems like a good piece of insurance, something else other than one's conscience to push them to be faithful...I also think that if I feel the need to have such a contract in my marriage to help "keep him in line" that it's a pretty crap sign about the trust I (one day) may have in him. I shouldn't feel the need to put a contract on our marriage to reinforce that he stays trustworthy. Yet, he's completely screwed up my trust and safety I felt in him and our marriage, so I guess this option might be a good one.

OP, you have a different idea about the purpose of a post-nuptial than I do. I don't view a post-nuptial as a form of leverage to ensure cheating doesn't happen or "keep someone in line". My thinking was this -- first, my DH did something horrible in cheating. He manipulated me so that I would continue to invest in the marital relationship. I viewed getting a fair post-nuptial signed as part of a concrete demonstration via actions, not words, that my DH was committed to being transparent and fair to me whether or not our marital relationship held. I didn't want him to be in a position to continue to manipulate me thru my fear of having to shell out huge bucks in divorce to get a fair settlement. If he acknowledged his wrong, and committed to a fair post-nuptial (50/50 on all marital assets, all of my pre-marital assets returned and a fair alimony and generous child support payment). In particular, I regret having had another child with my now exDH after the cheating without having appropriate custody and child support protections in place (he assured me it was an isolated incident, we went to counseling, and he encouraged me to have another baby). What my ex did wasn't fair to me or our children; it was self-absorbed and I was foolish not to protect myself when I had the most leverage - in the immediate aftermath of the revaluation of the infidelity.

Also from a legal perspective, an infidelity clause would be more trouble than it was worth and doesn't comprehensively cover the bigger problem -- the lying. It would be expensive and time-consuming to catch my DH "cheating" again. But, he continued to lie to me about many more things than just contacts with women, any of the continued lies were enough to terminate the relationship.

Anonymous wrote:I think he did nothing wrong. He hasnt cheated since you were married. That's what counts. Until then fair game

I wonder about this too. I mean, cheating is an awful thing. But is it THAT bad if it happened before he married? If he is committed and faithful now when married? Yes, it was a hurtful, selfish thing to do, but it sounds like he stopped it before they got married.

I think he did nothing wrong. He hasnt cheated since you were married. That's what counts. Until then fair game

I think you're being very thoughtful in your decision making op. I would say that right now you're in a very intense time, he's working hard on marriage, apologizing his head off etc, you're absorbing the shock of the lies and the what do I do from here feelings. The hard part, at least it was for me in my first marriage (which was very brief due to trust problems) was when real life began again. He can only be "uber husband" for so many weeks and you can only be shocked and sad for so long. Then, even with the counseling, all of it comes back to day to day life. It all boils down, in my opinion,to can you
Trust his word. If your gut says no, walk and get counseling to support you through the pain of divorce. You can forgive him but you have to also trust him if you want the marriage to be a healthy one. Huge hugs to you.

Anonymous wrote:It's the combination of being dishonest and it being infidelity. Of course, the fact that he cheated when we were engaged is extremely hurtful and personal.

If he had been dishonest about something major that wasn't as personal as cheating -- drug or alcohol addiction, massive debt, a gambling problem, etc. -- then I would still feel hurt and misled. But it wouldn't be as painful as infidelity is. To me at least.

He has been, as far as I know, honest about everything else (background, credentials, finances, etc.).

Hi OP. 9:30 again ... hope you don't feel like I am hectoring you. I agree that infidelity is the worst possible lie. But in a way, it makes your decision (whatever that ends of being ... no judgment) easier. My husband IS an alcoholic and drug user and that was the source of many (although not all) of his lies. It left me with an "out" ... there were worse things he could be dishonest about. He eventually got there. I could tell myself that while he was dishonest, it was not about the thing that would have been the most hurtful.

You are starting out this process already at the worst. You already know what he is capable of lying about for sure. If he can do this now when the relationship was young and at its most passionate and hopeful ... what will he be capable of when the stress of young children arrives or just the general routine/monotony of normal marriage occasionally develops?

I am really sorry you are going through this situation. I hope you find happiness in whatever decision you make.

Yes, he's doing all the right things NOW and showing remorse and dedication to improvement and healing. He loves you and wants to do the right thing. Counseling and dedicating himself to be a better person are wonderful and great gestures. But ideally, you might be better off with a life partner who could be trustworthy without so much conscious effort. Because the counseling cannot go on forever and the rawness of the recent trauma will recede for both of you. Eventually you will both settle back into being your normal selves ... and his normal self includes a comfort with being dishonest in order to enhance his day to day life.

Yes, people can change. But they normally do not actually follow through. Hence the lucrative self-help book section at Barnes and Noble.

It's the combination of being dishonest and it being infidelity. Of course, the fact that he cheated when we were engaged is extremely hurtful and personal.

If he had been dishonest about something major that wasn't as personal as cheating -- drug or alcohol addiction, massive debt, a gambling problem, etc. -- then I would still feel hurt and misled. But it wouldn't be as painful as infidelity is. To me at least.

He has been, as far as I know, honest about everything else (background, credentials, finances, etc.).

OP, he proposed to you and continued to date. His idea of commitment is not compatible with yours.

You can't assume, no matter what he says, that he's going to be open and honest now. His idea of honesty and openness is not the same as yours.

His idea of commitment in marriage is unproven, but based on the above, I'll bet you it's not going to be the same as yours either. And you won't know what he's really up to. Why? He spent years lying and hiding already. He's pretty good at it, and he feels he's entitled to do what he wants, and that there are acceptable reasons to lie and hide and cheat. The thing he feels bad about is getting caught. You only found out from someone else. He didn't suddenly turn honest or come forward on his own. He got busted.

I can tell you, from experience, that it's only going to get more complicated as you invest more time and if you have kids. You'll have invested infinitely more than you have now. You think getting out now will be hard? It's nothing like it will be. And marriage is tough, especially during the early child-raising years. Given his history, it's very likely he's going to hide things, lie to you, and betray your trust again. He'll have his reasons--business travel, or you're busy with work and child.

And every day is a kind of hell after your trust is broken, as you're finding. Even with time, you experience these moments of hell regularly, and question things that you'd never have to give a thought if you were with someone trustworthy. It taints everything. Do you really want to live like this for the rest of your life? Do you feel this is the best you can do?

I'm a year into your process, with someone who has shown himself to be able to operate in the same deceptive, secretive, self-serving way your new husband does. If we didn't already have kids, I'd have spared myself the hell of trying to stay in this. He's doing everything right, and appears to be a "changed man," but even the nicest moments are poisoned by my gut telling me this guy fooled me for years, so I have to watch out. That's life without trust. And any time something iffy comes up, where before you'd have the luxury of trust, so you could shrug it off, you know you cannot now. There is no peace of mind, no matter how hard you try to create it. There is no sense of safety anymore.

I think you're wise to take your time and work your way through this. Just don't let wishful thinking override your gut and common sense.