Anonymous wrote:I think it's most people's marriages that suck. Having kids puts an enormous strain on any relationship.

Marriages that are good can become crappy when you have a child and fundamentally disagree about the myriad of issues surrounding the child because EVERYTHING seems so big and meaningful (nutrition, discipline, education, sleep) that any disagreement means that the other person is going to RUIN the child.

Expanding on the "it gets better with time" idea, which is not about ignoring your kids or parenting minimally, but about kids' development.


Vacation with at 2-year-old: douse child in sunblock, lug baby gear to beach, and spend day alternating between helping child not drown and helping child not get skin cancer.

Vacation with a 10-year-old: snorkel together.

Weekend day with a 2-year-old: organize activities around sleep, mood, food. Take child to playground and watch closely or have a play date with a child who needs as much supervision as yours.

Weekend day with a 10-year-old, togetherness version-- go to a museum or movie, take a hike, go camping, kayak, see a play, watch her soccer game. Social version: she organizes time with a friend and they ditch you the first chance they get in favor of whatever the hell they like to talk about in private. Or this could happen at someone else's house.

Weekday evening with a 2-year-old: race to day care from work and then home from there, cram in bath, dinner, cleaning up the unholy mess from toddler eating style, pass out because you were up at an ungodly hour with said child.

Weekday evening with a 10-year-old: nice walk home from school with kid, during which time you can find out how much homework is left and how the day went. Prepare dinner together, or let homework happen while you prepare, then clean up together. Child showers by herself, then you get a little more together time, then she's off to bed.

Parenting is very, very time intensive and it is, bar none, the biggest change I've ever experienced and most people will experience. The part of it that is 24/7 kid-related activities is comparatively short, though, and IMHO a baby is just as happy at an art museum as sitting in a circle at baby and me art or music class. When I was growing up our world wasn't organized around kid activities, and we had the freedom to play in the neighborhood at a much younger age. That's not always possible today, but this idea that it's 100% baby schedule or else is a comparatively new one, and it's not necessary for raising a happy kid with happy parents.

We almost didn't have kids because everyone in dh's family complained so much about how bad it was. I finally got him to go for it, and we are so happy we had children. He has said so many times how frustrated he was that his siblings always emphasized the negatives and none of the positives of having children. Everyone - we need to talk about the good things more. My co-worker had the same exact experience. We were at work one day saying why did everyone say this was so bad when it is so wonderful?

Yes, it is hard sure thing, but the good way way way outweighs the bad.

Anonymous wrote:

I disagree that you have to give up your day to day life, ambitions, hobbies, etc.

It's difficult to balance these things with an infant but after that, having no life is a choice, not a requirement.

Kids are people. They are capable of participating in interesting things right along with you.

Parents are also people. We need to take time to explore who we are, to exercise, to consider art and ideas, to have adult relationships.

It's possible. You just can't give in to the BS idea that kids are only happy at activities specifically designed for kids and that parents aren't allowed to do anything not specifically designed to please their kids.

I think this is an overly rosy picture. My son is 5 and can do some fun things with me - we enjoy riding bikes together, playing soccer and basketball, swimming. We've taken some fun vacations. But I can't really pursue my hobby (writing fiction) or go to the gym on a regular basis after working 8 hours a day, commuting 1 hour each way, and still get to see him awake and read him books etc. in the evening. I read the newspaper on the metro, but other than that, don't really have time to "consider art and ideas."

5 is very young and time really flies once they start elementary school. By 10 it's a whole new world.

Anonymous wrote:my days are exhausting and i can't wait for kids to go to bed. then, when they do, i watch their videos and photos on the computer.

+1

my days are exhausting and i can't wait for kids to go to bed. then, when they do, i watch their videos and photos on the computer.

I think it's hard when you have kids and have no childcare help, no one to give you a break. My husband and I have no local family, and I'm a SAHM. The only break I get is when he comes home and takes over parenting. On the weekends, we both share parenting, but both of us feel drained all the time and we don't get a chance to go out as a couple ever and all our vacations are, and will always be, with kids, because our parents are incapable of taking care of the kids, and they live too far away (West Coast). I think it's just a lot harder when you have no family help to give you a break once in awhile, you feel drained all the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it sucks. Life as you know it is over. Unless you have a ton of cash you're broke and lucky if you ever see a decent vacation again. I have no idea why anyone would do this. This was important to my wife so we had a child. It blows. If you have even the slightest doubt about whether you actually want a child, do not have one. I don't care if that means the end of your relationship or marriage. Doing this will screw all of that up anyway.

Woa. Be the change! We just took our 5 year old to Europe and had a blast. Live the life you want.

Well obviously you have plenty of money. Duh.

We only have one so far, 2 yo. There are good days and there are bad days, and I am exhausted at the end of each just the same. But my DS is so funny and cute that it is absolutely worth it. After he is in bed DH and I discuss the funny stuff DS did/said that day and laugh together. Our bond as a couple has gotten stronger I think.

Anonymous wrote:I have a 2 month old who was very much wanted and I have to say this is the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. I cannot imagine doing this with any amount of uncertainty. Granted I'm still in the thick of it as far as newborn-ness goes but so far it has been hard. Really really hard. It's why im on dcum with a baby on my shoulder at 1:30am rather than in my bed which looks like a fat juicy porkchop to a starved dog right about now. But sadly I know I will be in this stupid rocking chair at least 3 more times tonight. Probably 4. Anyway don't have kids if you aren't sure.

I remember feeling exactly this way at 8 weeks. I very much wanted and planned for my baby, and things were so hard that I could not imagine doing it with any ambivalence or without a supportive partner. My husband and I refer to that period as the dark times. Our baby was so hard and we were so tired. But it did get SO much better, in case you are in need of some consolation. At one year he's still not a great sleeper, unfortunately, but he's so wonderful and fun in so many different ways that we are starting to consider having another. It's kind of amazing.

Anonymous wrote:I have two year old twins. We didn't decide on having children until we had been together a LOOONG time. We were both ambivalent about it as we a pretty happy life together. However, we slowly came to a point where we decided we were ready for a different kind of life, so we took the risk, knowing there was a chance it might wreck the pretty sweet thing we had going.

6 weeks in, we were sure we'd ruined our lives forever....all newborns are hard, twins are harder, and ours were really really really hard. But by 6 months we agreed that this was the best decision we'd ever made and we still say it to each other all the time. It is a ton of work and our lives have changed more profoundly than we could have anticipated. For example, we go out alone together and with friends A LOT less, but the surprising part is that I don't think either of use really resent it because we actually really like hanging out with our kids. And the experience has, of course, changed our relationship, but getting to see each other parent, we've told each other many times, has really deepened our love for each other.

As is evidenced by this threat, OP, people have widely varying experiences with the transition to parenthood, but for me, next to finding the love of my life, getting to be the mommy of these two kids is the best thing that has ever happened to me.

+1. We do not have twins, but this was us too.

OP, you can have a wonderful, fulfilled life without kid(s). You can have a wonderful, fulfilled life with kid(s). One isn't objectively better than the other, they're just different.

I have two year old twins. We didn't decide on having children until we had been together a LOOONG time. We were both ambivalent about it as we a pretty happy life together. However, we slowly came to a point where we decided we were ready for a different kind of life, so we took the risk, knowing there was a chance it might wreck the pretty sweet thing we had going.

6 weeks in, we were sure we'd ruined our lives forever....all newborns are hard, twins are harder, and ours were really really really hard. But by 6 months we agreed that this was the best decision we'd ever made and we still say it to each other all the time. It is a ton of work and our lives have changed more profoundly than we could have anticipated. For example, we go out alone together and with friends A LOT less, but the surprising part is that I don't think either of use really resent it because we actually really like hanging out with our kids. And the experience has, of course, changed our relationship, but getting to see each other parent, we've told each other many times, has really deepened our love for each other.

As is evidenced by this threat, OP, people have widely varying experiences with the transition to parenthood, but for me, next to finding the love of my life, getting to be the mommy of these two kids is the best thing that has ever happened to me.

I disagree that you have to give up your day to day life, ambitions, hobbies, etc.

It's difficult to balance these things with an infant but after that, having no life is a choice, not a requirement.

Kids are people. They are capable of participating in interesting things right along with you.

Parents are also people. We need to take time to explore who we are, to exercise, to consider art and ideas, to have adult relationships.

It's possible. You just can't give in to the BS idea that kids are only happy at activities specifically designed for kids and that parents aren't allowed to do anything not specifically designed to please their kids.

I think this is an overly rosy picture. My son is 5 and can do some fun things with me - we enjoy riding bikes together, playing soccer and basketball, swimming. We've taken some fun vacations. But I can't really pursue my hobby (writing fiction) or go to the gym on a regular basis after working 8 hours a day, commuting 1 hour each way, and still get to see him awake and read him books etc. in the evening. I read the newspaper on the metro, but other than that, don't really have time to "consider art and ideas."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it sucks. Life as you know it is over. Unless you have a ton of cash you're broke and lucky if you ever see a decent vacation again. I have no idea why anyone would do this. This was important to my wife so we had a child. It blows. If you have even the slightest doubt about whether you actually want a child, do not have one. I don't care if that means the end of your relationship or marriage. Doing this will screw all of that up anyway.

Woa. Be the change! We just took our 5 year old to Europe and had a blast. Live the life you want.

Obviously you don't have a spouse who think it's a waste to take kids on vacation.

"He won't remember."

Screw my spouse.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it sucks. Life as you know it is over. Unless you have a ton of cash you're broke and lucky if you ever see a decent vacation again. I have no idea why anyone would do this. This was important to my wife so we had a child. It blows. If you have even the slightest doubt about whether you actually want a child, do not have one. I don't care if that means the end of your relationship or marriage. Doing this will screw all of that up anyway.

Woa. Be the change! We just took our 5 year old to Europe and had a blast. Live the life you want.