Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can't most Capitol Hill Montessori kids do grade level math when so few are FARMs?

CHM@L is, pound for pound, the worst performer on this list. There is no excuse for a school with those demographics (FARMs %) to score that poorly.

The elementary program did have a huge challenge this year because the lead teacher was on sick leave for essentially the entire year, but the even before that the math scores were nothing to write home about.

Is it possible that CHM did a great job of providing high-quality educational opportunities that are not measured by the DC CAS?

Anonymous wrote:

Net net: cost itself doesn't seem to be the cause of high or low school performance. Don't we have more important things to deal with?

Anonymous wrote:Top 5 middle schools

Deal
Oyster Adams
Kipp Key Academy
Basis DC
Washington Latin

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In summary:

DCPS costs more.

Credibility of saying otherwise: 0

Dead horse: well beaten

Demonstrate you have a brain by showing how these two statements may be compatible:

1) as a whole, the cost per pupil at dcps schools is higher than charters

2) specific dcps schools, such as oyster, may well cost less, per pupil, than specific charter schools

Net net: cost itself doesn't seem to be the cause of high or low school performance. Don't we have more important things to deal with?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In summary:

DCPS costs more.

Credibility of saying otherwise: 0

Dead horse: well beaten

Demonstrate you have a brain by showing how these two statements may be compatible:

1) as a whole, the cost per pupil at dcps schools is higher than charters

2) specific dcps schools, such as oyster, may well cost less, per pupil, than specific charter schools

Net net: cost itself doesn't seem to be the cause of high or low school performance. Don't we have more important things to deal with?

Anonymous wrote:In summary:

DCPS costs more.

Credibility of saying otherwise: 0

Dead horse: well beaten

Anonymous wrote:In summary:

DCPS costs more.

Credibility of saying otherwise: 0

Dead horse: well beaten

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The cost of implementing IMPACT comes nowhere near what the differential is.

And how do you know that? Indirect costs (I.e., central admin. salaries, IMPACT, special DCPS wide programs, etc) can very well account for the "missing" money. The fact remains that the per pupil spending at Oyster is $11k and some change, compared to much more at LAMB. I'm really only concerned with Oyster because that is/will be the only DCPS my kids attend. Until you produce proof that says otherwise, you really have nothing. Your conjecture simply doesn't count. If you think that you're on to something, please let the Washington Post know all about it. Let the pros uncover this vast DCPS funding conspiracy of which you speak.

This is not about conspiracies, it's about getting you to use your head and understand the big picture. All DCPS schools including Oyster benefit from those indirect spending line items, to include the admin line items, textbooks, facilities and those "special DC-wide programs" - there is no "conspiracy" or mystery about it - those things cost money and in many cases are big ticket items - like facilities - and in DCPS, they add a around a million dollars a year for every hundred students, whereas charters are entirely on their own to provide all of those things - they don't get facilities, textbooks, administrative staff or other items furnished to them by DCPS - all the things not shown in those individual school budgets because they are in the overall DCPS budget. Charters do not get $100 million thrown at them by the city for facilities as was just the case with Dunbar, and that's where some of the cost comes from, as DCPS works its way through various capital improvement projects for its many schools. The city does not do the same for charters; charters get none of the indirect resource contributions.

Although there have been some thinking exercises presented (such as the one above which dispelled the idea that DCPS spending is higher because of special needs) there's really no great mystery or conjecture about it, nor any need to go running to the media - the Washington Post and others have already reported on average spending per student in DCPS and know well the reality of the situation. Everyone knows it, the only person trying to deny it is you.

The bottom line IS that average cost is $30,000 per student in the DCPS system when you add direct cost and indirect cost, and that IS the correct number to use when you compare to LAMB or other charters, because the charter numbers include all of their indirect costs as well.

The average cost per pupil is $11k at Oyster--that's the only school I care about lady. An apples to apples comparison is the direct cost to educate a child at Oyster vs. LAMB and any other charter. Do you think that charters deserve to be given brand new buildings every time someone decides to experiment? Charters assume and accept the responsibility of educating their children with the money they have in their budget. I'm certain that my children do not benefit from special needs funding, Kaya's salary, etc. The direct costs to educate my children at Oyster are less than the direct costs to educate children at LAMB. Everyone knows that, the only person trying to deny it is you! I'm very pleased my kids' school...are you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS spends 35k per student system wide not only at Oyster but at Amidon too. However, that includes money spent on sp Ed and all the admins at headquarters and facilities costs. 19k for charters includes their sp Ed costs, facilities, etc. too. Yes, charters have sp ed kids which they have to provide FAPE just like DCPS but have to do it with less money.

Despite the inherent unfairness in funding, charters are doing well including Kipp.

I looked it up. Oyster has $11,391 per student - this data point comes straight from the budget:
http://dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY13%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY13/DCPS-OYSTERADAMS-Allocation-FY13.pdf

That factsheet appears to only list key staff funding. Note the absence of all of the other things that Oyster Adams is provided via DCPS, such things like textbooks and materials, the building, utilities and other infrastructure (huge expenses). Charters have to provide and pay for all those things on their own. The cost shown in the factsheet is just a small percentage of the overall cost of Oyster Adams.

don't know. I teach in a FLES school.



Many of you are laboring under the wrong impression that Oyster is the recipient of endless DCPS cash. The school has to maintain two buildings with the funding it receives for only one building. The two teachers per class? Gone for most grades due to budget cuts. Oyster has to do a lot with a little, just like many other urban schools. Although there is always room for improvement, Oyster does a fantastic job, and that should be applauded. I'm not trying to dump on charters, but many of you never miss an opportunity to denigrate DCPS when it's in the charters' favor. Oyster is a shining example of a DCPS success, despite the many people who have tried to destroy it (both within and without) over the years. Just acknowledge its accomplishments without trying to explain it away with false statements (I.e., ...but it receives more funding...but it has complete control over admissions...but its been around longer and you know older means better...but, but, but).

The point is that Oyster gets much more funding and has more resources than any of the immersion charters. Plus they are allowed to give preferences (for Spanish speakers) and are in-bounds in a high SES area. It's the only EoP equivalent to the JKLMM schools. Oyster has higher DC CAS scores than any of the immersion charters. So.... Oyster should have high scores considering all the advantages they have.

No Oyster doesn't get much more funding (read the link above). It just produces better results with it's resources. Oyster has no control over the large influx of English speakers in k, which throws its balance off and makes it harder to teach the target language. Plus, Oyster isn't full immersion in PK and k like most charters. Btw, LAMB is notorious for providing an admissions preference for Spanish speakers--they just do it from the waitlist. And one more thing, Oyster is WoP, Adams is east--get your geography straight.

Really? Oyster doesn't have double the number of teachers, two teachers per class to provide bilingual education?

Due to DCPS budget cuts, Oyster no longer has two teachers per class (except in PK). So please pay attention and keep up.
Btw, how many teachers per class do other immersion charters have right now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS spends 35k per student system wide not only at Oyster but at Amidon too. However, that includes money spent on sp Ed and all the admins at headquarters and facilities costs. 19k for charters includes their sp Ed costs, facilities, etc. too. Yes, charters have sp ed kids which they have to provide FAPE just like DCPS but have to do it with less money.

Despite the inherent unfairness in funding, charters are doing well including Kipp.

I looked it up. Oyster has $11,391 per student - this data point comes straight from the budget:
http://dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY13%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY13/DCPS-OYSTERADAMS-Allocation-FY13.pdf

That factsheet appears to only list key staff funding. Note the absence of all of the other things that Oyster Adams is provided via DCPS, such things like textbooks and materials, the building, utilities and other infrastructure (huge expenses). Charters have to provide and pay for all those things on their own. The cost shown in the factsheet is just a small percentage of the overall cost of Oyster Adams.

don't know. I teach in a FLES school.



Many of you are laboring under the wrong impression that Oyster is the recipient of endless DCPS cash. The school has to maintain two buildings with the funding it receives for only one building. The two teachers per class? Gone for most grades due to budget cuts. Oyster has to do a lot with a little, just like many other urban schools. Although there is always room for improvement, Oyster does a fantastic job, and that should be applauded. I'm not trying to dump on charters, but many of you never miss an opportunity to denigrate DCPS when it's in the charters' favor. Oyster is a shining example of a DCPS success, despite the many people who have tried to destroy it (both within and without) over the years. Just acknowledge its accomplishments without trying to explain it away with false statements (I.e., ...but it receives more funding...but it has complete control over admissions...but its been around longer and you know older means better...but, but, but).

The point is that Oyster gets much more funding and has more resources than any of the immersion charters. Plus they are allowed to give preferences (for Spanish speakers) and are in-bounds in a high SES area. It's the only EoP equivalent to the JKLMM schools. Oyster has higher DC CAS scores than any of the immersion charters. So.... Oyster should have high scores considering all the advantages they have.

No Oyster doesn't get much more funding (read the link above). It just produces better results with it's resources. Oyster has no control over the large influx of English speakers in k, which throws its balance off and makes it harder to teach the target language. Plus, Oyster isn't full immersion in PK and k like most charters. Btw, LAMB is notorious for providing an admissions preference for Spanish speakers--they just do it from the waitlist. And one more thing, Oyster is WoP, Adams is east--get your geography straight.

Really? Oyster doesn't have double the number of teachers, two teachers per class to provide bilingual education?

Due to DCPS budget cuts, Oyster no longer has two teachers per class (except in PK). So please pay attention and keep up.
Btw, how many teachers per class do other immersion charters have right now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The cost of implementing IMPACT comes nowhere near what the differential is.

And how do you know that? Indirect costs (I.e., central admin. salaries, IMPACT, special DCPS wide programs, etc) can very well account for the "missing" money. The fact remains that the per pupil spending at Oyster is $11k and some change, compared to much more at LAMB. I'm really only concerned with Oyster because that is/will be the only DCPS my kids attend. Until you produce proof that says otherwise, you really have nothing. Your conjecture simply doesn't count. If you think that you're on to something, please let the Washington Post know all about it. Let the pros uncover this vast DCPS funding conspiracy of which you speak.

This is not about conspiracies, it's about getting you to use your head and understand the big picture. All DCPS schools including Oyster benefit from those indirect spending line items, to include the admin line items, textbooks, facilities and those "special DC-wide programs" - there is no "conspiracy" or mystery about it - those things cost money and in many cases are big ticket items - like facilities - and in DCPS, they add a around a million dollars a year for every hundred students, whereas charters are entirely on their own to provide all of those things - they don't get facilities, textbooks, administrative staff or other items furnished to them by DCPS - all the things not shown in those individual school budgets because they are in the overall DCPS budget. Charters do not get $100 million thrown at them by the city for facilities as was just the case with Dunbar, and that's where some of the cost comes from, as DCPS works its way through various capital improvement projects for its many schools. The city does not do the same for charters; charters get none of the indirect resource contributions.

Although there have been some thinking exercises presented (such as the one above which dispelled the idea that DCPS spending is higher because of special needs) there's really no great mystery or conjecture about it, nor any need to go running to the media - the Washington Post and others have already reported on average spending per student in DCPS and know well the reality of the situation. Everyone knows it, the only person trying to deny it is you.

The bottom line IS that average cost is $30,000 per student in the DCPS system when you add direct cost and indirect cost, and that IS the correct number to use when you compare to LAMB or other charters, because the charter numbers include all of their indirect costs as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The cost of implementing IMPACT comes nowhere near what the differential is.

And how do you know that? Indirect costs (I.e., central admin. salaries, IMPACT, special DCPS wide programs, etc) can very well account for the "missing" money. The fact remains that the per pupil spending at Oyster is $11k and some change, compared to much more at LAMB. I'm really only concerned with Oyster because that is/will be the only DCPS my kids attend. Until you produce proof that says otherwise, you really have nothing. Your conjecture simply doesn't count. If you think that you're on to something, please let the Washington Post know all about it. Let the pros uncover this vast DCPS funding conspiracy of which you speak.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS spends 35k per student system wide not only at Oyster but at Amidon too. However, that includes money spent on sp Ed and all the admins at headquarters and facilities costs. 19k for charters includes their sp Ed costs, facilities, etc. too. Yes, charters have sp ed kids which they have to provide FAPE just like DCPS but have to do it with less money.

Despite the inherent unfairness in funding, charters are doing well including Kipp.

I looked it up. Oyster has $11,391 per student - this data point comes straight from the budget:
http://dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY13%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY13/DCPS-OYSTERADAMS-Allocation-FY13.pdf

That factsheet appears to only list key staff funding. Note the absence of all of the other things that Oyster Adams is provided via DCPS, such things like textbooks and materials, the building, utilities and other infrastructure (huge expenses). Charters have to provide and pay for all those things on their own. The cost shown in the factsheet is just a small percentage of the overall cost of Oyster Adams.

Many of you are laboring under the wrong impression that Oyster is the recipient of endless DCPS cash. The school has to maintain two buildings with the funding it receives for only one building. The two teachers per class? Gone for most grades due to budget cuts. Oyster has to do a lot with a little, just like many other urban schools. Although there is always room for improvement, Oyster does a fantastic job, and that should be applauded. I'm not trying to dump on charters, but many of you never miss an opportunity to denigrate DCPS when it's in the charters' favor. Oyster is a shining example of a DCPS success, despite the many people who have tried to destroy it (both within and without) over the years. Just acknowledge its accomplishments without trying to explain it away with false statements (I.e., ...but it receives more funding...but it has complete control over admissions...but its been around longer and you know older means better...but, but, but).

The point is that Oyster gets much more funding and has more resources than any of the immersion charters. Plus they are allowed to give preferences (for Spanish speakers) and are in-bounds in a high SES area. It's the only EoP equivalent to the JKLMM schools. Oyster has higher DC CAS scores than any of the immersion charters. So.... Oyster should have high scores considering all the advantages they have.

No Oyster doesn't get much more funding (read the link above). It just produces better results with it's resources. Oyster has no control over the large influx of English speakers in k, which throws its balance off and makes it harder to teach the target language. Plus, Oyster isn't full immersion in PK and k like most charters. Btw, LAMB is notorious for providing an admissions preference for Spanish speakers--they just do it from the waitlist. And one more thing, Oyster is WoP, Adams is east--get your geography straight.

Really? Oyster doesn't have double the number of teachers, two teachers per class to provide bilingual education?

Anonymous wrote:The cost of implementing IMPACT comes nowhere near what the differential is.