Anonymous
Post 09/12/2013 17:06     Subject: Re:pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is standard. It can be any God, doesn't have to a Christian God.

I'm pretty sure it has already gone to the Supreme Court so there's not much point in objecting unless you want to file a lawsuit.

I'm also sure there's a lawyer on here who can give us the scoop.


Sorry, but what a crock this is. What on Earth do you mean "it is standard"?
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2013 16:05     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
From oversea born parents of a U.S. born child.
I have no objection against Pledge of Allegiance and those of people who pledge.
But doing so looks very militaristic to me and kind of mind control starting from such a young age.

Would I want it for my child? That is a different question and I have not yet formulate my answer to that...

Anonymous
Post 09/11/2013 20:20     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:Maybe I am old but I grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school.
It's the Pledge -- you didn't say it in school?


I didn't.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2013 16:53     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Maybe I am old but I grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school.
It's the Pledge -- you didn't say it in school?
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2013 16:42     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
"There is usually an Obama Youth rally after. They typically have snacks."

LMAO!

Seriously, though, my uncle was forced to join the Mussolini Youth (Dad was just young enough to miss it). There is no comparison between actually living in a country run by a dictator, and saying the pledge!! And screaming about constitutional rights shouldn't be the first way to handle this if you want your kids to sit out.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2013 10:34     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:
And yes, it's too much to ask a 5 or 6 year old to not do what the teacher is asking them to do (and what all the other kids are doing).
I agree
The teachers should take them aside and provide them some other activity. To make them stand out like that is too awkward
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 22:25     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
My kids are not American citizens (just residents), but are being told to recite it. Are we traitors to our own country? Or can we pledge allegiance to several flags?! How does that work?!

And yes, it's too much to ask a 5 or 6 year old to not do what the teacher is asking them to do (and what all the other kids are doing).
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 22:18     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:When she's old enough, show her this and she'll always giggle whenever they have to say the pledge:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://pics.livejournal.com/rioduran/pic/0002c5t6&imgrefurl=http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/05/154524/-Life-In-Hell-Classic-timely-strip-from-1991-w-pic&h=551&w=500&sz=75&tbnid=O8c8fdsWl5ZKOM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=78&zoom=1&usg=__CPBdhfGOh6bPVVyt4WROxgU63tM=&docid=KQERa4wJcXLEEM&sa=X&ei=ddAvUpC6M8egqwHQnYHYBw&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAQ&dur=2221


Groenig did several of those and my favorite was the original he wrote in the 1980s. Can't find the cartoon but here are the words:

I plead alignment to the flakes of the untitled snakes of a merry cow. And to the Republicans, for which they scam, one nacho, underpants, with licorice and jugs of wine for owls.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 22:09     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
When she's old enough, show her this and she'll always giggle whenever they have to say the pledge:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://pics.livejournal.com/rioduran/pic/0002c5t6&imgrefurl=http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/05/154524/-Life-In-Hell-Classic-timely-strip-from-1991-w-pic&h=551&w=500&sz=75&tbnid=O8c8fdsWl5ZKOM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=78&zoom=1&usg=__CPBdhfGOh6bPVVyt4WROxgU63tM=&docid=KQERa4wJcXLEEM&sa=X&ei=ddAvUpC6M8egqwHQnYHYBw&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAQ&dur=2221
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 22:05     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I



Super!!!
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 20:54     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Pledga does not teach respect, just obedience
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 20:46     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:Why? Your children need to learn respect. They are citizens of the United States. They need not salute the flag by saying the pledge of allegiance. However, it is respectful to stand and be silent.

Jehovah's Witnesses have a long history of not saluting the flag or saying the pledge of allegiance b/c they feel it is an act of worship in contravention of the Second Commandment prohibtion against idolatry and their duties as Christians to be "in the world but not of it." However, their children will stand quietly.

If the children of people with a deeply held religious belief prohibiting participationn in the plege can stand out of respect, so can your children.

I for one will teach my children the pledge and its meaning. It was authored by a socialist Baptist Minister, Francis Bellamy, who felt it good to instill a sense of patriotism among the country’s schoolchildren. It is good to remember that at the time it was written, the Civil War had ended less than 30 years before. One of the results of that war was the unification of the United States as one nation rather than as a simple “union of sovereign states,” yet there was still not a strong notion of being “American.”

I do not want my children to mindlessly mouth the pledge, which is why I have read to them James Clavell’s “The Children’s Story” about the dangers of teaching our children to mouth words without truly knowing what they mean.

You can read it here: http://home.comcast.net/~llefler/clavell.htm


Agreed that the Pledge matters and people should fully understanding the meaning. Can 4 year-olds really do so or is it just brainwashing? Btw: Bellamy was not merely motivated by patriotism. He wrote the pledge as part of a marketing campaign to solicit magazine subscriptions and ended up selling 26,000 flags. His version did not include "under God", either, which was added in 1954 - 60 years later - during the height of the Cold War to protect us all from "godless Communists".
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 20:38     Subject: Re:pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:Really, this is new to DCPS? I've never heard of a school in America not saying the pledge.


There is some variation but in the past decade, there have been up to 10 states that have dropped the Pledge of Allegiance requirement for schools (it has depended upon the status of the various lawsuits - and there have been so many it boggles the mind -- and is around 5 or 6 states now). And please, to a PP (not the one I am quoting here), drop the "snowflake". I presume that no one is raising a snowflake. We should all expect to prepare our their children to express themselves, respectfully, in many situations including where they hold a minority viewpoint or one that opposes our own. And I would hope that none of us are raising sheep who can be herded whenever the dog of authority barks. But in looking at this particular issue, it has become clear that many DCPS principals MAY be acting without any legal authority. This begs the question of where else is DCPS unable to articulate or even establish their legal mandate? The Pledge of Allegiance should be an easy one to answer and yet DCPS has been flummoxed for two weeks, unable to provide the basis of this mandate or any guidance to the school. Where is the oversight of their work?
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 06:50     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:Why? Your children need to learn respect. They are citizens of the United States. They need not salute the flag by saying the pledge of allegiance. However, it is respectful to stand and be silent.


Once again:

1. The school cannot legally require a child to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
2. The school cannot legally require a child to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

This is irrespective of what you do with your children, or what you consider valid reasons for saying or not saying, or standing for or not standing for, the Pledge of Allegiance.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2013 06:47     Subject: pledge of allegiance in schools?
Anonymous wrote:Shall we expunge God and any discussion of aged from public life? I just learned mynDD's history textbook removes Lincoln's "under God" from the Gettysburg address. Maybe femove it also from the copy of the address carved on the Lincoln Memorial?


It's not certain that Lincoln actually did say "under God" in the Gettysburg address.

http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2013/06/did-abraham-lincoln-omit-god-from-the-gettysburg-address/

And it's not relevant to the PP's question at 18:20 anyway.