Thank you 10:54 and 10:56. There are some us who are willfully ignorant and delight in the misery of others.

I do hope, to get back to the original point, that more parents city-wide will support the work of HUMS and Banneker.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we are going to just keep talking about the 1960s and the 1850s and keep using that baggage of the past rather than talking about the now and the future then there never is a solution or path forward.

I think the example of Barack Obama that was brought up is indeed valid and relevant and perfectly illustrates the problem of internal baggage, as the only thing different between him and any other AA is what's on the inside, it's NOT what's on the outside as other posters keep saying. There are plenty of AAs on these forums with G&T and college-bound students who could follow his path.

Yes, and some of those folks live in SE DC.

I don't agree with the rest of your post, but I truly wish more understood and agreed with this. The issue is that so many people still think of/reference Blacks en masse and in a negative way -- if there are Blacks who do well, they are not representative of the norm. Why not? Really, why not? Because the media doesn't regularly do pieces on Blacks who are doing well, or whites who are doing poorly, so many have the idea and express themselves in ways that indicate all Blacks are decrepit and whites do not have the same issues. Two inescapable facts:

1. Whites collectively control the wealth and political power in the United States
2. Whites gotand retained that wealth and political power in large part through slavery and subsequent laws and societal practices that kept Blacks from achieving equality.

Beyond that we're all human, some doing well, some not, some intelligent, some not, some availing themselves of advantages, some not.

The issue I see is that so many whites continue to gripe and complain about any opportunities given to Black society and try to separate themselves from AAs; whites seem particularly cognizant of and offended by any ills in Black society, while denying any context/culpability. That this is considered an acceptable attitude in the majority of white society is astounding to me.

There is some "en masse" thinking on your part. It's not "whites collectively" in point 1 above, it's a tiny handful of whites, along with some who are not white; and 2. That political power and wealth is not collectively retained, nor is it exclusive to whites, and the subsequent laws and societal practices have by and large been undone and dispensed with.

Whites have their problems - from toothless meth heads living in an alley to sleazy multimillionaire white collar corporate raiders, to the murderers, rapists, child abusers and so on. But, the difference is that whites are willing to admit and acknowledge it, no hesitation to talk about it, and a casting of blame directly on those who are engaging in the behavior, and condemnation of it it wherever it exists, whereas in AA society this is not the case, where there is either denial and unwillingness to talk about the problem and resentment that anyone else would dare talk about the problem, and an immediate shifting of blame and complete unwillingness to allow any responsibility whatsoever to be put on those who are engaging in the bad behavior.

Nothing will ever be solved if the problem is not acknowledged, and not allowed to be discussed openly and honestly.

But this is true of any minority group that feels that airing dirty laundry will give ammunition to the bigots who want to paint everyone in the group with the same brush. Those in the more powerful group can acknowledge problems because they don't feel that others can attack them as a group. If whites were the minority group here, we would be doing the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we are going to just keep talking about the 1960s and the 1850s and keep using that baggage of the past rather than talking about the now and the future then there never is a solution or path forward.

I think the example of Barack Obama that was brought up is indeed valid and relevant and perfectly illustrates the problem of internal baggage, as the only thing different between him and any other AA is what's on the inside, it's NOT what's on the outside as other posters keep saying. There are plenty of AAs on these forums with G&T and college-bound students who could follow his path.

Yes, and some of those folks live in SE DC.

I don't agree with the rest of your post, but I truly wish more understood and agreed with this. The issue is that so many people still think of/reference Blacks en masse and in a negative way -- if there are Blacks who do well, they are not representative of the norm. Why not? Really, why not? Because the media doesn't regularly do pieces on Blacks who are doing well, or whites who are doing poorly, so many have the idea and express themselves in ways that indicate all Blacks are decrepit and whites do not have the same issues. Two inescapable facts:

1. Whites collectively control the wealth and political power in the United States
2. Whites gotand retained that wealth and political power in large part through slavery and subsequent laws and societal practices that kept Blacks from achieving equality.

Beyond that we're all human, some doing well, some not, some intelligent, some not, some availing themselves of advantages, some not.

The issue I see is that so many whites continue to gripe and complain about any opportunities given to Black society and try to separate themselves from AAs; whites seem particularly cognizant of and offended by any ills in Black society, while denying any context/culpability. That this is considered an acceptable attitude in the majority of white society is astounding to me.

There is some "en masse" thinking on your part. It's not "whites collectively" in point 1 above, it's a tiny handful of whites, along with some who are not white; and 2. That political power and wealth is not collectively retained, nor is it exclusive to whites, and the subsequent laws and societal practices have by and large been undone and dispensed with.

Whites have their problems - from toothless meth heads living in an alley to sleazy multimillionaire white collar corporate raiders, to the murderers, rapists, child abusers and so on. But, the difference is that whites are willing to admit and acknowledge it, no hesitation to talk about it, and a casting of blame directly on those who are engaging in the behavior, and condemnation of it it wherever it exists, whereas in AA society this is not the case, where there is either denial and unwillingness to talk about the problem and resentment that anyone else would dare talk about the problem, and an immediate shifting of blame and complete unwillingness to allow any responsibility whatsoever to be put on those who are engaging in the bad behavior.

Nothing will ever be solved if the problem is not acknowledged, and not allowed to be discussed openly and honestly.

Yes, when whites do discuss their issues, they blame the individuals, not the entire race.

AAs definitely acknowledge issues, but usually not with people who will assume that those issues are a marker for the entire race, and not with people who offer no real solutions, acknowledge no contributing factors, and whose sole purpose is to complain, vilify, and remove/segregate AAs away from precious snowflakes, to use a very popular phraseology on this board, rather than assist.

Why should AAs enter into a discussion that will only serve to further compound issues for their people? When the only answer you can come up with is to segregate, based on skin color, economic status, perceived intelligence and abilities, etc, then no one benefits.

The rest of your post has been addressed elsewhere, hopefully no need to reiterate. Assuming you haven’t read the entire thread.

Copied this from the Two Rivers thread:

Actually, from the National Center on Children in Poverty, because so many posters seem to think AA and FARMS are automatically linked:

http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/release_34.html

Poverty by the Numbers
By Race, White Children Make Up the Biggest Percentage of America’s Poor


New York City — A fact sheet released today by the National Center for Children in Poverty (NCCP) shows that, contrary to some common stereotypes about America’s poor, at least one-third of the 13 million children living in poverty are white.

“Poverty affects children of all colors, contrary to stereotypes. The notion held by many Americans that poverty is not a white problem is simply false,” says Jane Knitzer, EdD, director of NCCP, a research center at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. “The sooner all Americans realize these facts about poverty, the better chance we have of eradicating it.”

The NCCP fact sheet shows that among America’s poor children, 4.2 million are white, 4 million are Latino, 3.6 million are African American, 400,000 are Asian, and 200,000 are American Indian.



Enlarge

Figure 1: Poor children, by race
While the figures indicate that indeed more white children are poor, they also show, however, that higher percentages of minorities live in poor families:

10% of white children (4.2 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children range from 7% in Texas to 12% in Michigan.
27% of Latino children (4 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among Latino children range from 19% in Florida to 35% in Pennsylvania.
33% of black children (3.6 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 29% in California and Florida to 47% in Ohio.
12% of Asian children (400,000) and 40% of American Indian (200,000) Comparable state comparisons are not possible due to small sample sizes.
Nancy K. Cauthen, PhD, deputy director of NCCP, adds that America has 1.2 million more poor children today than in 2000. “It’s troubling that the trend has been upward, but child poverty is not intractable. Effective public policies can make a difference.”

One of the things NCCP recommends, says Cauthen, are strategies that help parents succeed in the labor force, which will in turn, help their children. “Low earning workers need higher wages but policies such as earned income tax credits and child care assistance are critical to supporting income growth for low-wage workers. These workers also need access to benefits that higher-wage earners take for granted, such as health insurance and paid sick leave.”

Dr. Knitzer says she would also like to see more policies that target families with infants and toddlers, such as Early Head Start, which have been shown to improve children's cognitive development and their behavior. “Starting early and continuing investments in high quality early learning through the preschool years, and indeed, into the early school years, are critical to America's future productivity,” she says. “High-quality early childhood experiences can go a long way toward closing the achievement gap between poor children and their more well-off peers.”

For the complete fact sheet Who are America’s Poor Children? The Official Story, access: http://www.nccp.org/publications/fact_sheets.html.

Apparently NCCP doesn't think child poverty issues are properly discussed and acknowledged...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we are going to just keep talking about the 1960s and the 1850s and keep using that baggage of the past rather than talking about the now and the future then there never is a solution or path forward.

I think the example of Barack Obama that was brought up is indeed valid and relevant and perfectly illustrates the problem of internal baggage, as the only thing different between him and any other AA is what's on the inside, it's NOT what's on the outside as other posters keep saying. There are plenty of AAs on these forums with G&T and college-bound students who could follow his path.

Yes, and some of those folks live in SE DC.

I don't agree with the rest of your post, but I truly wish more understood and agreed with this. The issue is that so many people still think of/reference Blacks en masse and in a negative way -- if there are Blacks who do well, they are not representative of the norm. Why not? Really, why not? Because the media doesn't regularly do pieces on Blacks who are doing well, or whites who are doing poorly, so many have the idea and express themselves in ways that indicate all Blacks are decrepit and whites do not have the same issues. Two inescapable facts:

1. Whites collectively control the wealth and political power in the United States
2. Whites gotand retained that wealth and political power in large part through slavery and subsequent laws and societal practices that kept Blacks from achieving equality.

Beyond that we're all human, some doing well, some not, some intelligent, some not, some availing themselves of advantages, some not.

The issue I see is that so many whites continue to gripe and complain about any opportunities given to Black society and try to separate themselves from AAs; whites seem particularly cognizant of and offended by any ills in Black society, while denying any context/culpability. That this is considered an acceptable attitude in the majority of white society is astounding to me.

There is some "en masse" thinking on your part. It's not "whites collectively" in point 1 above, it's a tiny handful of whites, along with some who are not white; and 2. That political power and wealth is not collectively retained, nor is it exclusive to whites, and the subsequent laws and societal practices have by and large been undone and dispensed with.

Whites have their problems - from toothless meth heads living in an alley to sleazy multimillionaire white collar corporate raiders, to the murderers, rapists, child abusers and so on. But, the difference is that whites are willing to admit and acknowledge it, no hesitation to talk about it, and a casting of blame directly on those who are engaging in the behavior, and condemnation of it it wherever it exists, whereas in AA society this is not the case, where there is either denial and unwillingness to talk about the problem and resentment that anyone else would dare talk about the problem, and an immediate shifting of blame and complete unwillingness to allow any responsibility whatsoever to be put on those who are engaging in the bad behavior.

Nothing will ever be solved if the problem is not acknowledged, and not allowed to be discussed openly and honestly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's assume that the ongoing effect of slavery is the primary cause for some AA kids education difficulties now.

What would be a good solution? DCPS places the entire responsibility on poor teaching and has embarked upon reform measures that focus on firing and firing teachers and principals as the path to educational success for DC's children who are in the most need.

Does anyone here think this is a good idea or have other ideas on how to improve the situation?

Again, have you looked at schools/programs like Andre Agassi's? How about that for a start? And I noticed not one person responded to the post on reparations...

To clarify -- I'm referring to current practices in DCPS. I see that the school you mention is in Las Vegas

Does anyone have a response to this?

Some you need to go back to work and get off this blog while on vacation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we are going to just keep talking about the 1960s and the 1850s and keep using that baggage of the past rather than talking about the now and the future then there never is a solution or path forward.

I think the example of Barack Obama that was brought up is indeed valid and relevant and perfectly illustrates the problem of internal baggage, as the only thing different between him and any other AA is what's on the inside, it's NOT what's on the outside as other posters keep saying. There are plenty of AAs on these forums with G&T and college-bound students who could follow his path.

Yes, and some of those folks live in SE DC.

I don't agree with the rest of your post, but I truly wish more understood and agreed with this. The issue is that so many people still think of/reference Blacks en masse and in a negative way -- if there are Blacks who do well, they are not representative of the norm. Why not? Really, why not? Because the media doesn't regularly do pieces on Blacks who are doing well, or whites who are doing poorly, so many have the idea and express themselves in ways that indicate all Blacks are decrepit and whites do not have the same issues. Two inescapable facts:

1. Whites collectively control the wealth and political power in the United States
2. Whites gotand retained that wealth and political power in large part through slavery and subsequent laws and societal practices that kept Blacks from achieving equality.

Beyond that we're all human, some doing well, some not, some intelligent, some not, some availing themselves of advantages, some not.

The issue I see is that so many whites continue to gripe and complain about any opportunities given to Black society and try to separate themselves from AAs; whites seem particularly cognizant of and offended by any ills in Black society, while denying any context/culpability. That this is considered an acceptable attitude in the majority of white society is astounding to me.

So you would prefer that whites be condescending and pity Blacks rather than see them as responsible fully-functioning human beings with self determination?

Not the PP...but seriously. .. THIS is what you concluded from her statement???? One more example of why it is impossible to have this dicsussion with some people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we are going to just keep talking about the 1960s and the 1850s and keep using that baggage of the past rather than talking about the now and the future then there never is a solution or path forward.

I think the example of Barack Obama that was brought up is indeed valid and relevant and perfectly illustrates the problem of internal baggage, as the only thing different between him and any other AA is what's on the inside, it's NOT what's on the outside as other posters keep saying. There are plenty of AAs on these forums with G&T and college-bound students who could follow his path.

Yes, and some of those folks live in SE DC.

I don't agree with the rest of your post, but I truly wish more understood and agreed with this. The issue is that so many people still think of/reference Blacks en masse and in a negative way -- if there are Blacks who do well, they are not representative of the norm. Why not? Really, why not? Because the media doesn't regularly do pieces on Blacks who are doing well, or whites who are doing poorly, so many have the idea and express themselves in ways that indicate all Blacks are decrepit and whites do not have the same issues. Two inescapable facts:

1. Whites collectively control the wealth and political power in the United States
2. Whites gotand retained that wealth and political power in large part through slavery and subsequent laws and societal practices that kept Blacks from achieving equality.

Beyond that we're all human, some doing well, some not, some intelligent, some not, some availing themselves of advantages, some not.

The issue I see is that so many whites continue to gripe and complain about any opportunities given to Black society and try to separate themselves from AAs; whites seem particularly cognizant of and offended by any ills in Black society, while denying any context/culpability. That this is considered an acceptable attitude in the majority of white society is astounding to me.

So you would prefer that whites be condescending and pity Blacks rather than see them as responsible fully-functioning human beings with self determination?

PP here. That would be "parts of this conversation." Thank you.

Just a quick comment to thank the collective "you" for having the intelligent/civil/rational parts of converation, and a request to keep it going. It really does help us all learn. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:Reparations? Impossible to implement. Who would be responsible for paying? Targeted, or across the board? How would it ever be fair?

Most white Americans in those times never held any slaves, many white families came long after slavery was abolished, and whatever "benefit" they get in terms of where this nation is and what it provides is no different than whatever same "benefit" other whites, asians,, latinos, (and as previous in this thread, AAs like Barack Obama) get or are getting.. Does the Filipino family that moved to the US 15 years ago owe reparations? How about the Bulgarian family that moved here 30 years ago? Barack Obama- does he owe? How about people who are of mixed white, african and other ancestry?

ALL people have African ancestry, as far as we know.

US government could pay, just as they did to Japanese internment families and their heirs.

But I believe the post on reparations was about education, job creation, etc. There used to be government programs in place, but a lot of those have been rolled back because of backlash from whites. Apparently 400 years of oppression is only worth about 40 years of assistance -- "Black people, you only need 1/10 of the time you were oppressed to recover. Why aren't you done already?"

Let's try to be at least slightly realistic, folks. And for clarity's sake, the in-quotes comment is definitely sarcastic.

Anonymous wrote:If we are going to just keep talking about the 1960s and the 1850s and keep using that baggage of the past rather than talking about the now and the future then there never is a solution or path forward.

I think the example of Barack Obama that was brought up is indeed valid and relevant and perfectly illustrates the problem of internal baggage, as the only thing different between him and any other AA is what's on the inside, it's NOT what's on the outside as other posters keep saying. There are plenty of AAs on these forums with G&T and college-bound students who could follow his path.

Yes, and some of those folks live in SE DC.

I don't agree with the rest of your post, but I truly wish more understood and agreed with this. The issue is that so many people still think of/reference Blacks en masse and in a negative way -- if there are Blacks who do well, they are not representative of the norm. Why not? Really, why not? Because the media doesn't regularly do pieces on Blacks who are doing well, or whites who are doing poorly, so many have the idea and express themselves in ways that indicate all Blacks are decrepit and whites do not have the same issues. Two inescapable facts:

1. Whites collectively control the wealth and political power in the United States
2. Whites gotand retained that wealth and political power in large part through slavery and subsequent laws and societal practices that kept Blacks from achieving equality.

Beyond that we're all human, some doing well, some not, some intelligent, some not, some availing themselves of advantages, some not.

The issue I see is that so many whites continue to gripe and complain about any opportunities given to Black society and try to separate themselves from AAs; whites seem particularly cognizant of and offended by any ills in Black society, while denying any context/culpability. That this is considered an acceptable attitude in the majority of white society is astounding to me.

Anonymous wrote:Another AA here. Just want to point out that native americans have not been able to recover very well either. I've seen some of those communities up close and its not pretty and very well hidden.

Although I don't think this is a rational discussion or thread I do want to point out that the family breakdown, unemployment, low educational attainment is happening very quietly in some white communities all over this country.

I'm not a fan of Charles Murray but his research on the state of white America is fascinating.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/WhiteAm

Yes, this. PP, I bet so many of these naysayers will say so what in reference to the Native People. There use to be a poster who would write that they were savages killing each other. It was a natural order. So sad that people actually carry such hatred Nd disregard for others. Perhaps that is what gives some their belief of superiority.

In regards to charles Murray's piece, I doubt many on this forum believe that whites as a whole, unlike Blacks as a whole, are bad parenting. You understand that when a white person is a fuck up, he/she is an individual not represented of the whole. However, when a Black person fucks up he represent the entire 16 million Blacks. What a burden.

If we are going to just keep talking about the 1960s and the 1850s and keep using that baggage of the past rather than talking about the now and the future then there never is a solution or path forward.

I think the example of Barack Obama that was brought up is indeed valid and relevant and perfectly illustrates the problem of internal baggage, as the only thing different between him and any other AA is what's on the inside, it's NOT what's on the outside as other posters keep saying. There are plenty of AAs on these forums with G&T and college-bound students who could follow his path.