I hope that it has occurred to everyone that as the laws in FL stand, you could kill just about anyone if you set it up correctly. You could provoke them to swing at you, you could stumble and fall, then they pounce on you and then you shoot them...all in self defense.

Anonymous wrote: You have an amazing gift of imagination and storytelling. However, what you've said does not match the information that has already come out including 911 tapes and eyewitness interviews.

So far, we know this....

So far, all we know is what the media has selectively broadcast to create a sensation. My "storytelling" is no different than the half-baked fiction we see in the news. Tawana Brawley comes to mind here, so does the Duke Lacrosse Team issue some years back.

The 17-year old Trayvon had some candy and a bottle of tea on him. Did they check inside the tea bottle to see if it was indeed tea and not alcohol, or drugs? Was it candy or crystal meth? Was there a coroner's report for artifacts on the corpse?

Even if Trayvon had just a ball of string and some pocket lint it does not mean he wasn't carrying a gun previously, or cocaine for that matter. Trayvon could have seen the Watch Captain and ran, thinking he was a policeman, ditching his gun and drugs which would explain why Zimmerman chose to pursue. Trayvon could have been trying to break into a house, or jacking a car.

All we have is selective, unverified "witnesses" blabbing this and that to build a sensational story. All that you have read is unverified hearsay which is inadmissible in a court of law.

For the moment, I am siding with the police who were there and who used their judgement concerning the situation.

I refuse to get worked up over something when all the facts are not present.

The whole thing is an outrage. It makes me sick.

The gf's story to me sees quite credible as she would have told it to Trayvon's parents and her own family long before anyone even knew what had happened to Trayvon. She was talking to him and the phone went dead and he just disappeared. She wouldn't have had any reason at that time to make up any story about their conversation.

I am sure she would have told his family what she knew when they were trying to find him after he failed to return from the store.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So far, we know this: a 17 year old 140-lb black teenager who was armed with skittles and ice tea and wearing a hoodie was walking home from the convenience store. He was visiting his father, so he had a right to be in the neighborhood (for the amazingly obtuse person who said that "piece of excrement that didn't belong in the neighborhood). A 28 year old Caucasian man who had a history of violence, and was over 200-lbs was an unauthorized vigilante armed with a gun, phoned 911. When he described the situation, he used racial epithets. He was told explicitly not to follow the youth. He ignored the instructions and followed the youth. The youth, for some reason (probably fearful he was being stalked or chased, but that is hearsay) ran and the perpetrator now maliciously chased the victim again counter to the instructions of the police. The youth who was unarmed and fleeing was being chased by the adult with the gun. The youth ends up dead and the primary suspect is not being detained. These are details that were given by family and eyewitnesses in interviews and by evidence of the 911 recordings.

Different PP - do we know that there was a chase? I hadn't read that.

Not the PP, but-

Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend in the moments leading up to his murder. He told her a strange man was following him, but he managed to lose the man and he was going to quickly walk home. Then Zimmerman, who'd been following Trayvon, reappeared.

Trayvon probably thought that Zimmerman was a pedophile trying to grab him. My kids are instructed to yell, kick, fight back and run. Not stand there like fools. So if every time a big man grabs a kid or approaches him, is the child supposed to passively take it for fear of being shot?

Anonymous wrote:

So far, we know this: a 17 year old 140-lb black teenager who was armed with skittles and ice tea and wearing a hoodie was walking home from the convenience store. He was visiting his father, so he had a right to be in the neighborhood (for the amazingly obtuse person who said that "piece of excrement that didn't belong in the neighborhood). A 28 year old Caucasian man who had a history of violence, and was over 200-lbs was an unauthorized vigilante armed with a gun, phoned 911. When he described the situation, he used racial epithets. He was told explicitly not to follow the youth. He ignored the instructions and followed the youth. The youth, for some reason (probably fearful he was being stalked or chased, but that is hearsay) ran and the perpetrator now maliciously chased the victim again counter to the instructions of the police. The youth who was unarmed and fleeing was being chased by the adult with the gun. The youth ends up dead and the primary suspect is not being detained. These are details that were given by family and eyewitnesses in interviews and by evidence of the 911 recordings.

Different PP - do we know that there was a chase? I hadn't read that.

I'm the PP you quoted. Read here:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/traynor-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T2o5xVt9yL8

That's why I said it was hearsay. It's the girlfriend's word against Zimmerman's. But it's enough evidence that Zimmerman should be detained for investigation. It's only racial prejudice that allows Zimmerman to remain free without even having to pay bond.

Anonymous wrote:

So far, we know this: a 17 year old 140-lb black teenager who was armed with skittles and ice tea and wearing a hoodie was walking home from the convenience store. He was visiting his father, so he had a right to be in the neighborhood (for the amazingly obtuse person who said that "piece of excrement that didn't belong in the neighborhood). A 28 year old Caucasian man who had a history of violence, and was over 200-lbs was an unauthorized vigilante armed with a gun, phoned 911. When he described the situation, he used racial epithets. He was told explicitly not to follow the youth. He ignored the instructions and followed the youth. The youth, for some reason (probably fearful he was being stalked or chased, but that is hearsay) ran and the perpetrator now maliciously chased the victim again counter to the instructions of the police. The youth who was unarmed and fleeing was being chased by the adult with the gun. The youth ends up dead and the primary suspect is not being detained. These are details that were given by family and eyewitnesses in interviews and by evidence of the 911 recordings.

Different PP - do we know that there was a chase? I hadn't read that.

Zimmerman told the police that the boy was running toward the back entrance. The police told him not to follow. If the boy was running in the opposite direction of Zimmerman, how did Zimmerman and the boy end up at the same point at a later time? Deduction would lead one to correctly say that the boy was pursued as he ran away.

Anonymous wrote:

So far, we know this: a 17 year old 140-lb black teenager who was armed with skittles and ice tea and wearing a hoodie was walking home from the convenience store. He was visiting his father, so he had a right to be in the neighborhood (for the amazingly obtuse person who said that "piece of excrement that didn't belong in the neighborhood). A 28 year old Caucasian man who had a history of violence, and was over 200-lbs was an unauthorized vigilante armed with a gun, phoned 911. When he described the situation, he used racial epithets. He was told explicitly not to follow the youth. He ignored the instructions and followed the youth. The youth, for some reason (probably fearful he was being stalked or chased, but that is hearsay) ran and the perpetrator now maliciously chased the victim again counter to the instructions of the police. The youth who was unarmed and fleeing was being chased by the adult with the gun. The youth ends up dead and the primary suspect is not being detained. These are details that were given by family and eyewitnesses in interviews and by evidence of the 911 recordings.

Different PP - do we know that there was a chase? I hadn't read that.

Not the PP, but-

Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend in the moments leading up to his murder. He told her a strange man was following him, but he managed to lose the man and he was going to quickly walk home. Then Zimmerman, who'd been following Trayvon, reappeared.

So far, we know this: a 17 year old 140-lb black teenager who was armed with skittles and ice tea and wearing a hoodie was walking home from the convenience store. He was visiting his father, so he had a right to be in the neighborhood (for the amazingly obtuse person who said that "piece of excrement that didn't belong in the neighborhood). A 28 year old Caucasian man who had a history of violence, and was over 200-lbs was an unauthorized vigilante armed with a gun, phoned 911. When he described the situation, he used racial epithets. He was told explicitly not to follow the youth. He ignored the instructions and followed the youth. The youth, for some reason (probably fearful he was being stalked or chased, but that is hearsay) ran and the perpetrator now maliciously chased the victim again counter to the instructions of the police. The youth who was unarmed and fleeing was being chased by the adult with the gun. The youth ends up dead and the primary suspect is not being detained. These are details that were given by family and eyewitnesses in interviews and by evidence of the 911 recordings.

Different PP - do we know that there was a chase? I hadn't read that.

Anonymous wrote:
It is dark. A hooded figure is approaching. He sees you and starts grumbling, cursing, and acting suspicious. What appears to be a gun poking from his pocket is aimed at you.

You cannot run because you are dead in his sights. What appears to be a gun barrel is aimed straight at you so running is not an option. He is sure to try and rob you and then kill you. There is nothing to do but shoot. Is it a gun, a finger, or is it a stick of licorice aimed at you? Gosh, let us put our life in the hands of chance and hope it is candy.

No way. It would be the height of folly to wait and hope this suspicious person, acting crazy at night, is really just a sweet, loving, gentle misunderstood youth who isn't going to rob and kill you. Most likely he hasn't fire yet because he is trying to get a little closer so the short-barreled gun won't miss.

Yes, I just did type this. Yes, I really do think Zimmerman has a case for self defense.

You have an amazing gift of imagination and storytelling. However, what you've said does not match the information that has already come out including 911 tapes and eyewitness interviews.

So far, we know this: a 17 year old 140-lb black teenager who was armed with skittles and ice tea and wearing a hoodie was walking home from the convenience store. He was visiting his father, so he had a right to be in the neighborhood (for the amazingly obtuse person who said that "piece of excrement that didn't belong in the neighborhood). A 28 year old Caucasian man who had a history of violence, and was over 200-lbs was an unauthorized vigilante armed with a gun, phoned 911. When he described the situation, he used racial epithets. He was told explicitly not to follow the youth. He ignored the instructions and followed the youth. The youth, for some reason (probably fearful he was being stalked or chased, but that is hearsay) ran and the perpetrator now maliciously chased the victim again counter to the instructions of the police. The youth who was unarmed and fleeing was being chased by the adult with the gun. The youth ends up dead and the primary suspect is not being detained. These are details that were given by family and eyewitnesses in interviews and by evidence of the 911 recordings.

Other than your imagination, do you have anything to support your conjecture above? Because it really does not have much resemblance to anything that has been published to date about the incident.

Anonymous wrote:On MSNBC last night, it was reported that the family did not know for three days where their son was. They were not aware that Travon was the victim of the shooting. His father repeatedly called his cell phone looking for him and reported a missing persons report.

Travon was taken to the medical examiner's office as an unidentified male, as he had no identification on him at the time. He did have his cellphone, but the police never answered the phone. Why would they not answer the ringing phone of a dead person? Why would they not call back the last number dialed on the phone?

The police also did not swab Zimmerman's hands for gun powder. Nor, was he issued a blood or alcohol test.

Are the police covering up for Zimmerman, incompetent, or just don't care because it is just another dead Black boy. Pick one or all three.

Ugh. Excuse me while I throw up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, do you think pointing your finger and cursing at someone warrants MURDERING them? Really? Did you really type that? Do you really believe that? If so, you are sick.

It is dark. A hooded figure is approaching. He sees you and starts grumbling, cursing, and acting suspicious. What appears to be a gun poking from his pocket is aimed at you.

You cannot run because you are dead in his sights. What appears to be a gun barrel is aimed straight at you so running is not an option. He is sure to try and rob you and then kill you. There is nothing to do but shoot. Is it a gun, a finger, or is it a stick of licorice aimed at you? Gosh, let us put our life in the hands of chance and hope it is candy.

No way. It would be the height of folly to wait and hope this suspicious person, acting crazy at night, is really just a sweet, loving, gentle misunderstood youth who isn't going to rob and kill you. Most likely he hasn't fire yet because he is trying to get a little closer so the short-barreled gun won't miss.

Yes, I just did type this. Yes, I really do think Zimmerman has a case for self defense.

Except that Zimmerman was pursuing the boy. The boy said he was walking home.

He (Trayvon) was on the phone with his girlfriend while walking home. Poor girl.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T2n9c3mgu8A

I posted the following in the other thread on this topic - thought it might be of interest here. This is the relevant Florida statutory section:

Fla. St. 776.013(3) - A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

So, if Zimmerman was attacked, he had the right to shoot ("meet force with force, including deadly force") if he reasonably felt he was in danger of death or great bodily harm. The defense doesn't seem to apply if Zimmerman threw the first punch (which would be "engaged in unlawful activity"). It looks like a gray area if Zimmerman provoked a confrontation (but still stayed on the side of "acting lawfully"), but didn't initiate any violence (although this may be addressed in cases construing the law). Although it appears ridiculous, I'm not sure getting out of the car, following Trayvon, or even initiating a verbal confrontation with him or accosting him verbally would constitute engaging in an unlawful activity such that the defense is not available (but again, I haven't looked at any cases on this).

Separate and apart from the horrific facts here, where it certainly appears that a trigger-happy racist killed someone who was minding his own business simply because he was black, there are many, many flaws in laws like this.

Anonymous wrote:the victim looks like he is 12. how the heck did this guy mistake him for threatening?

Thank you! Finally someone said it. I've read the thread and the defenders of the killer giving reasons why it might be self defense and saying let's wait and see. I wanted to scream look at that kid he is so small and Zimmerman looks like a big guy, I guess he is at least twice the size of the kid. How in hell does a big man like that feel threatened by such a small boy. The kid also looked very mild and well-groomed and his dress is very decent. No hint of any roughness or gangster threats. Not that these things are key but besides skin color and possession of a weapon the only other explanation for seeing a kid walking on the street and feeling threatened would be if he was big and looked How on earth does a big man see a small well-groomed child, and think he is suspicious and feel threatened while you are following him. WTF! The biggest travesty here is that the police let him walk away. This is what is aggravating most of us IMO, who feel outraged by this story.

If you are a black mother, you worry that this could be your child next time in another neighborhood facing another racist. If you are a white mother you don't have that worry and can never understand the fear one may feel when your child walks out the door. But in that case, don't tell others to just relax. At a minimum, the killer should be arrested, even if he'll be let out on bail. Come on now people.