Totally. I'm not sure why people can't celebrate both. They have differences that might appeal to different people that can be explored, but at heart both middle schools are holding their own and providing good options for kids.

Debating Deal vs Latin seems silly when both schools got it going on.

PP here - sorry about the smiley over the number - it conceals 82.8 - so shows growth.

2010 DC CAS Test Scores - Please check http://www.nclb.osse.dc.gov/ for additional detail.

Deal
Reading: 83.1%
Math: 84.1%
(Each increased 5%+ between 2009 and 2010)
Deal SE population 8% of total, LEP 5% of total, Economically disadvantaged: 25% of total

Washington Latin MS
Reading: 82.8%
Math: 81.4%
(Change in Math 09-10, 82.0 to 81.4; change in Reading 09-10, 82.3 to 82.8)
Latin MS SE population 5%, LEP 4%, Economically disadvantage: 10% of total

One analysis: statistically insignificant difference, although for 2010 Deal did do better. Deal increased dramatically in both math and reading, although neither school made Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP). In size and composition, the schools are not the same, but they both manage to do really quite well (with room for improvement at both). In schools with good teachers and good students, the challenge resides in chipping away at that last 15-20 percent; both Latin and Deal will face this challenge equally.

Digression: One critical factor sometimes overlooked is comparing schools of different sizes. In DC, the threshold for reporting DC CAS data for AYP is 25 students. If a population of students in a school, say Asian/Pacific Islander, falls below that minimum threshold, then the scores for that school for the subpopulation are not broken out and are, therefore, not reported publicly. The intent is to prevent any possibility of identification by subgroup that might allow a reader to identify that student by name. DC has a relatively low threshold (25) whereas in other states it is much higher. This is one reason why some elementary schools might make AYP, but when those same students are aggregated with a larger number of students from other schools, the minimum threshold is reached and the middle school is held to account for more measures. Not complaining, just the way the law is written I believe. That is why it is important to check out how individual grades do; while the whole school might miss out, the change between 6th and 8th grade (in the case of a DC middle school) can be helpful to provide a slightly more accurate read on AYP and performance.

Anonymous wrote:Latin's curriculum is much more advanced? I don't think so. Enough with the Latin boosters.

Martha Cutts runs a very tight ship, just look at her track record. The inclusion of Latin PLUS another language in the curriculum is already quite advanced, far more so than the average MS curriculum anywhere - not just in DC. Latin, for those who didn't know, is a very complex language to learn.

Oh, and "Enough with the Deal boosters."

Anonymous wrote:I bet that both 13:42 and 14:53 are correct -- that Hardy is not what it could be -- but it is a lot better than most of the options available to students in grades 6-8 in the District.

That's a pretty low bar to clear. Not exactly a resounding cheer for Hardy.

I bet that both 13:42 and 14:53 are correct -- that Hardy is not what it could be -- but it is a lot better than most of the options available to students in grades 6-8 in the District.

I bet the hardy waiting list and its enrollment is larger next year than it was this year. I bet that most students, if they were to attend Hardy woudl be getting an upgrade over the middle school available to them. I bet Hardy's test scores go up this year. Let's not miss the forest for the trees.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:16:09, funny, I hear a lot of complaining (and rightly so) that schedules are a mess, discipline is a mess and it took 2 or 3 assistant principals to replace Pope. (Let's ponder for a moment about that budget hit...)

Nice try though.

Hoo-hash. You've got an axe to grind. Hardy is strong and getting stronger.

Hardy is not getting stronger. I am an insider, with a long history at Hardy. Hardy is falling apart, with serious issues stemming from a lack of real leadership. Schedules ARE a mess, discipline IS a problem now, teachers are NOT being heard or supported, classes ARE unequally loaded. Please understand I do not have an axe to grind, but I do have true insight into the daily operations of Hardy.

Anonymous wrote:It isn't true. According to the New School Chooser, Deal is 29% low income and Washington Latin's lower school (the Middle School) is 12% low income.

(Now cue all the Latin cheerleaders who will wax poetic about how many working class parents they have. Snooze...)

Latin has the "right opportunity" as pointed out by 23:07. They have a student body that is affluent as compared to other public middle schools.

Socio-economic status is the best predictor of academic success. Latin has a recipe for success.

And so does Deal. And guess what? I am buying what they are cooking. I'd be crazy not to!

It isn't true. According to the New School Chooser, Deal is 29% low income and Washington Latin's lower school (the Middle School) is 12% low income.

(Now cue all the Latin cheerleaders who will wax poetic about how many working class parents they have. Snooze...)

Latin has the "right opportunity" as pointed out by 23:07. They have a student body that is affluent as compared to other public middle schools.

Socio-economic status is the best predictor of academic success. Latin has a recipe for success.

Regardless of curriculum, the scores are on par in the total average. Some sub-groups at Latin do better than some sub-groups at Deal and vice versa--but the overall scores are neck to neck. To the person who says they aren't, please provide the data. Thanks.

Latin's curriculum is much more advanced? I don't think so. Enough with the Latin boosters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latin does not have the best scores. Look at Deal's scores for 2009-2010 compared to Latin's.

new poster here. I looked at them a few months ago -- they appeared completely on par.

Except that Latin's scores are good or better, the curriculum is much more advanced, and the students all speak Latin. (Well, their student body isn't as privileged as Deal's.) Just goes to show what a well run school can do with the right opportunity.

Please share proof that Deal has a wealthier student body - because I don't believe that is true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latin does not have the best scores. Look at Deal's scores for 2009-2010 compared to Latin's.

new poster here. I looked at them a few months ago -- they appeared completely on par.

Except that Latin's scores are good or better, the curriculum is much more advanced, and the students all speak Latin. (Well, their student body isn't as privileged as Deal's.)

Just goes to show what a well run school can do with the right opportunity.