Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing wrong with it, just that some posters mock others because of their own insecurities

ding ding ding
first response, correct answer

People trying to tell you that trying is for losers are stuck in their own victim mentality. Their inability to succeed is everyone else's fault. Not because they don't want to put in the effort. So they have to mock those who do.

No one on this thread is doing the bolded. You don’t need to invent things.

The first sentence of this thread:
Why are any of these terms considered insults?

Insulting, looking down on someone, thinking it's loser behavior
These are all in the same vein

Hope that helps

Again, no one on this thread is saying that “trying is for losers.” This is a massive strawman.

OP is saying people think grinders and strivers are insults. Grinding and striving means trying.
Insulting (saying is someone is not good/cool, bad/loser) strivers (people trying) is what we are talking about
A strawman is exaggerating to make your point. I am not doing that.

If you're going to absolutely insist that "grinding" and "striving" only mean working hard and trying, there's really no arguing with you. But you can't control how language is viewed and used by other people. I love people that try and work hard and all of that good stuff, but I know that in some contexts that's not what "grinding" and "striving" means. Maybe grinding and striving used to mean something different, and maybe they still mean something different in different contexts, but they now have an additional negative meaning other than simply working hard. Again, don't shoot the messenger!

For example, I love kids who try hard, but I would never call a kid I liked a "try hard" because I know that's a pejorative term. It clearly means something more than trying hard, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change how words are used by the majority of people.

Anonymous wrote:I’d way rather the G,S or C get a spot than the kid with rich entitled parents who pay for tutors, essay coaches and have fake IEPs for their slow processing brain or whatever.

But you just described an S and C!

After 15 pages, I am still not getting it!

I think DD is a grinder or striver or whatever you call it. Prioritizes A+s, max rigor, test preps hard. This is all non-negotiable to her.

Also works hard at ECs, loves them, has a blast, does well. Has lots of friends she hangs out with. Loves hanging out with her little brother too. Obsessed with that show "Off campus" right now.

So she grinds, but not at the expense of everything else.

Is she a grinder/striver, or not?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing wrong with it, just that some posters mock others because of their own insecurities

ding ding ding
first response, correct answer

People trying to tell you that trying is for losers are stuck in their own victim mentality. Their inability to succeed is everyone else's fault. Not because they don't want to put in the effort. So they have to mock those who do.

No one on this thread is doing the bolded. You don’t need to invent things.

The first sentence of this thread:
Why are any of these terms considered insults?

Insulting, looking down on someone, thinking it's loser behavior
These are all in the same vein

Hope that helps

Again, no one on this thread is saying that “trying is for losers.” This is a massive strawman.

Trying is for losers unless you are trying for the reasons we think are worthy.

Such entitled attitudes on the thread.

I’d way rather the G,S or C get a spot than the kid with rich entitled parents who pay for tutors, essay coaches and have fake IEPs for their slow processing brain or whatever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would put these terms in a nature/nurture context.

First generation arrival, doesn’t speak English, successful in home country “strives” to reclaim that success in America. Positive implication of striver. Average American spends all their time studying trying to make the best of their situation at the expense of foregoing a balanced life. Negative implication of striver.


Grinder is someone who again tries to make the most of their natural ability. Positive or negative implication will be based on totality of lifestyle.

Curator, someone with the resources to create the illusion of competency. Can get you in the door but eventually the illusion falls apart.

On DCUM a grinder is someone who has overloaded and over rotated on academics at the expense of everything else and who’s parents then complain that it’s unfair that they don’t get into the schools they lust after because of holistic admissions.

This!

People here on DCUM continue to baffle me because they just continually sit in their little thought bubbles repeating the same stuff over and over.

Grinding isn't bad. Hardworking is a great trait and one that continually gets brought up as one of the most positive traits brought by athletes. Someone being referred to as a 'grinder' on DCUM isn't about that. It is slap at those who relentlessly call anything other than a test score unworthy of merit because academics was their sole focus.

+1. Though anyone who isn’t getting it after 15 pages is never going to get it.

Anonymous wrote:Grinding and striving means trying.

As other PPs have explained, there are many different ways to execute "trying" besides grinding or striving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would put these terms in a nature/nurture context.

First generation arrival, doesn’t speak English, successful in home country “strives” to reclaim that success in America. Positive implication of striver. Average American spends all their time studying trying to make the best of their situation at the expense of foregoing a balanced life. Negative implication of striver.


Grinder is someone who again tries to make the most of their natural ability. Positive or negative implication will be based on totality of lifestyle.

Curator, someone with the resources to create the illusion of competency. Can get you in the door but eventually the illusion falls apart.

On DCUM a grinder is someone who has overloaded and over rotated on academics at the expense of everything else and who’s parents then complain that it’s unfair that they don’t get into the schools they lust after because of holistic admissions.

This!

People here on DCUM continue to baffle me because they just continually sit in their little thought bubbles repeating the same stuff over and over.

Grinding isn't bad. Hardworking is a great trait and one that continually gets brought up as one of the most positive traits brought by athletes. Someone being referred to as a 'grinder' on DCUM isn't about that. It is slap at those who relentlessly call anything other than a test score unworthy of merit because academics was their sole focus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing wrong with it, just that some posters mock others because of their own insecurities

ding ding ding
first response, correct answer

People trying to tell you that trying is for losers are stuck in their own victim mentality. Their inability to succeed is everyone else's fault. Not because they don't want to put in the effort. So they have to mock those who do.

No one on this thread is doing the bolded. You don’t need to invent things.

The first sentence of this thread:
Why are any of these terms considered insults?

Insulting, looking down on someone, thinking it's loser behavior
These are all in the same vein

Hope that helps

Again, no one on this thread is saying that “trying is for losers.” This is a massive strawman.

OP is saying people think grinders and strivers are insults. Grinding and striving means trying.
Insulting (saying is someone is not good/cool, bad/loser) strivers (people trying) is what we are talking about
A strawman is exaggerating to make your point. I am not doing that.

Anonymous wrote:Why are any of these terms considered insults? What exactly is wrong with a student who grinds towards their desired college/major/career goal, strives for the best possible outcome, and curates a compelling narrative for decision-makers who control access?

It's like Jazz. If you've gotta ask, you'll never know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing wrong with it, just that some posters mock others because of their own insecurities

ding ding ding
first response, correct answer

People trying to tell you that trying is for losers are stuck in their own victim mentality. Their inability to succeed is everyone else's fault. Not because they don't want to put in the effort. So they have to mock those who do.

No one on this thread is doing the bolded. You don’t need to invent things.

The first sentence of this thread:
Why are any of these terms considered insults?

Insulting, looking down on someone, thinking it's loser behavior
These are all in the same vein

Hope that helps

Again, no one on this thread is saying that “trying is for losers.” This is a massive strawman.

Anonymous wrote:I've always associated striving with the American way and the generations of immigrants that came here and worked their way up. For me striver is a hopeful word, and it saddens me to see it reduced to a pejorative applied to a class of desperate high-schoolers being squeezed like lemons by their crazy parents. That''s all.

At least you acknowledge the terms have changed and have a negative connotation and describe less than noble people. You can definitely be saddened by it and I can understand why. There’s a big difference between an immigrant who pulled themselves up economically through grit and determination and the student who maximizes opportunities and checks every box for the Ivy League and social clout without any intellectual interests. The second case is only possible with privilege. It’s weird that the same word is used for both cases. I think most young people growing up in a competitive environment won’t even be familiar with the older, more positive meaning, and that’s sad to me too.

However, it is possible not to like something and still admit that it is true. Language use changes. Please don’t shoot the messenger, folks!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:a striver is viewed as someone sacrificing their mental health, relationships, and social life for an unfulfilling, endless chase for status

That is not what a striver is. As striver is someone that works hard. That is all. Anything else is made up.

It’s exactly what striver is.

You’re talking about hard working people. They exist in every aspect of life.

You don’t call a coal miner a striver, do you?
Or a coal miner?
Or a caterer?
Or a teacher?
Or a cop?
Or a marine?
Or a longshoreman …

No even though it very hard work with long hours. Why? Status.

DP.. IMO, a striver is not someone who just works hard to makes ends meat (coal miner), but someone who works hard and "strives" to better themselves in their status, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing economically (like striving to be in the UMC SES).

But, a social striver (like Trump - I'm the PP who used him as an example) is definitely looked down upon as someone who is desperate and trying too hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing wrong with it, just that some posters mock others because of their own insecurities

ding ding ding
first response, correct answer

People trying to tell you that trying is for losers are stuck in their own victim mentality. Their inability to succeed is everyone else's fault. Not because they don't want to put in the effort. So they have to mock those who do.

No one on this thread is doing the bolded. You don’t need to invent things.

The first sentence of this thread:
Why are any of these terms considered insults?

Insulting, looking down on someone, thinking it's loser behavior
These are all in the same vein

Hope that helps

Anonymous wrote:In the real world it would be wild how strongly some people are trying to defend these terms from having a negative connotation given that the terms are not being directed at any one person in particular. But it’s DCUM so I guess these terms hit too close to home. I guess you can add to the striver definition a hyper defensiveness at having their behavior pointed out to them.

What is the term for people who seem to think their view is the correct one and attack those who don’t share it as hyper defensive?