Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In retirement, make sure each of you can have some of your own space in your home. And give each other the house, alone, some. Neither of you is responsible for finding ways for the other to fill their time. You aren't managing each other and shouldn't be judging how they spend their time. What is usually said about the challenges for couples in retirement is: it's twice the amount of togetherness while living on 1/2 of the money you're use to.

It's not half the money for those of us who planned well.

Planned well how? Short of an enforceable prenup, if your spouse has a lawyer with any experience, they will get half of the marital property, and if they have to hire a forensic accountant to find things you're hiding, you'll get reamed in paying back their out-of-pocket attorney and accountant fees, plus the judge will be angry and biased against you.

Have you been living under a rock? Women who did not quit their careers to care for their kids make as much as their spouses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because they still have to spend time with both of you but it's not like they suddenly get 2x the vacation time just because their parents are divorced.

Because managing two aging adults in separate properties is harder than one property. And because you might be single so your children, rather than a spouse or partner, has to be next of kin.

Stop thinking about how this will be in your 50s-70s. Think about how it will be in your 80s and 90s.

That is stupid. Many people don't live that long.

Ok, think about how it will be at whatever age you become unable to manage your own affairs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because it opens the door to all kinds of bad things. You might get in a relationship or marry someone who brings problems to the family (like, someone with problem adult children, or who is broke or an alcoholic or whatever). This is what my mother did, she just blames the problems on everyone except her partner and thinks we all should help him out. You might have a second marriage that's just as unhappy as your first, so then that's the same amount of unhappiness but with much worse logistics.

If you or your father died married to each other, then the money would go to their other parent, which keeps it in the family and improves the circumstances of their other parent. That's a positive thing for adult children. If you die married to someone else, they get it and it'll probably end up with their children rather than your children. Not appealing.

It is none of your business.

Anonymous wrote:We all know what a Gray Divorce means.

It means the husband was a deadweight father and husband. Full stop.

Anonymous wrote:

Long story short, I eventually prevailed after threatening to buy and send the tickets myself -- because I knew they really wanted to go. The conversation ended with a "fine, I'll do it but ...

NP here. Hoping the above poster will read this. Poster, the communication between you two needs to change. Each of you need to re-train yourselves to: say what you mean and mean what you say. And trust/respect that each of you have communicated this way. Not this dance-around, taking pride is "knowing" what's best for the other or what the other truly wants (or should want), but isn't saying. It's not a good approach to love to believe you have the power to second-guess what someone else says. To think you are caring/loving or think you know them better than they know themselves. It leads to all kinds of confusion, issues of control, and emotional manipulation. Minimally, it leads to misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Say what you mean and mean what you say. And trust that the other person has done the same. Change your communication style for far greater happiness.

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Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

I'll never understand this tradeoff. Life is so short, I just don't understand being miserable for years and then once you are well into your late 50s suddenly you have all this grandiose plans with all this money. Travel, romance, fun sex etc all of that is more enjoyable when you are younger

Kids. That's it. Some parents choose delayed gratification to raise their kids under one roof and tuck them in every night. But once their off and we feel we've done the lion's share of our job as parents, it's our turn to focus on our happiness again with whatever time we have left.

This is me as well. I have basically hated my wife for 15 years, but sacrificed my happiness for my kids stability. I never cheated and I do regret marrying her, but my commitment is more important than my happiness. 2 more years….

You mean you’re staying for the free high quality child care, cooking, home mgmt, scheduling, health monitoring, cleaning and logistics mgmt your unpaid wife is doing, while also working a full time job or not.

Oh and you also get an ego and image boost because you appear like a functional Family Guy. Not only working all the time but likeable enough to still be married and see your kids anytime when convenient.

So instead of fixing the underlying issues in your marriage and household, you tag along like the selfish leech that you are, doing your own thing but continuing the facade of a married father.

Amazing how off base you can be. This is not something I tell the people in my life. She is the one with the image boost from not having the world know that she would leave the kids home to go cheat during the day. I love my kids more than I value my happiness. Since those times she has become a great mom, but she is a horrible spouse.

You sound like you could benefit from meeting a man in real life as an individual. I am far from perfect, but I do apologize when I am wrong and attempt to make decisions that will not only benefit me. I also don’t run from responsibility. Living with the pain of this marriage is much harder than I ever imagined, because I see the loss of us and the woman I loved every day.

So your wife, a “great mom” now, years before that, left her young kids home alone to supposedly go cheat and have an affair? And you confronted her? Or assumed? Or nothing?

That’s great you love your kids. everyone does, even absentee incarcerated fathers of six. They all say they love their children so, so much.

But talk is cheap. Action is where it’s at. Care is demonstrated love. Not words.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In retirement, make sure each of you can have some of your own space in your home. And give each other the house, alone, some. Neither of you is responsible for finding ways for the other to fill their time. You aren't managing each other and shouldn't be judging how they spend their time. What is usually said about the challenges for couples in retirement is: it's twice the amount of togetherness while living on 1/2 of the money you're use to.

It's not half the money for those of us who planned well.

Planned well how? Short of an enforceable prenup, if your spouse has a lawyer with any experience, they will get half of the marital property, and if they have to hire a forensic accountant to find things you're hiding, you'll get reamed in paying back their out-of-pocket attorney and accountant fees, plus the judge will be angry and biased against you.

Have you been living under a rock? Women who did not quit their careers to care for their kids make as much as their spouses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because it opens the door to all kinds of bad things. You might get in a relationship or marry someone who brings problems to the family (like, someone with problem adult children, or who is broke or an alcoholic or whatever). This is what my mother did, she just blames the problems on everyone except her partner and thinks we all should help him out. You might have a second marriage that's just as unhappy as your first, so then that's the same amount of unhappiness but with much worse logistics.

If you or your father died married to each other, then the money would go to their other parent, which keeps it in the family and improves the circumstances of their other parent. That's a positive thing for adult children. If you die married to someone else, they get it and it'll probably end up with their children rather than your children. Not appealing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because they still have to spend time with both of you but it's not like they suddenly get 2x the vacation time just because their parents are divorced.

Because managing two aging adults in separate properties is harder than one property. And because you might be single so your children, rather than a spouse or partner, has to be next of kin.

Stop thinking about how this will be in your 50s-70s. Think about how it will be in your 80s and 90s.

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

I'll never understand this tradeoff. Life is so short, I just don't understand being miserable for years and then once you are well into your late 50s suddenly you have all this grandiose plans with all this money. Travel, romance, fun sex etc all of that is more enjoyable when you are younger

Kids. That's it. Some parents choose delayed gratification to raise their kids under one roof and tuck them in every night. But once their off and we feel we've done the lion's share of our job as parents, it's our turn to focus on our happiness again with whatever time we have left.

This is me as well. I have basically hated my wife for 15 years, but sacrificed my happiness for my kids stability. I never cheated and I do regret marrying her, but my commitment is more important than my happiness. 2 more years….

I'm the poster of a few pages back who now basically lives apart from my spouse in our second home with no plans to formally separate or divorce.

If I were brutally honest, we too probably should have never married. We were very young (by DCUM standards) and pregnant. And obviously I wish we were closer still shared a more romantic love. But I can't say I regret getting married and wish I didn't. And I certainly don't hate my spouse!

We created an amazing family together and our kids and grandkids love both of us dearly. We're all very close and have great (and frequent) times together as a family before each of us retreats to our own space. It's only when it's just the two of us alone in the same physical space when friction bubbles to the surface, so we just avoid that when we can. And it's not hard since we have two houses.

Last night is a good example of how things go with us. Texting each other from the two houses coordinating helping with grandkids. Spouse says a few days are opening up because they decided against a trip with a really good old friend because it was too expensive. I said no, go and don't worry about the money. The response was "you know full well I don't spend that much money for just a long weekend," to which I responded "exactly and that's why you can afford to do it this time so just do it!" Long story short, I eventually prevailed after threatening to buy and send the tickets myself -- because I knew they really wanted to go. The conversation ended with a "fine, I'll do it but you have to stop NOW." Had we had the same conversation in person, it probably would have ended in a fight. By text, it ended with my spouse making a reservation for a nice trip and sending me a very nice "thank you" after it was all said and done.

Ideal? Nope. Not even close. But things could be a lot worse. We're certainly not going to blow up decades over it. We're both silently committed to making this work.

This is completely f-ed up on many levels. But maybe you realize that. When not just work on yourselves instead of live apart,?

Anonymous wrote:Planned well how?

The post was about living TOGETHER in retirement.

Most people want to leave money to their kids. Many people do not up-size their expenditures in retirement, even if they could, because it's not a good look.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because they still have to spend time with both of you but it's not like they suddenly get 2x the vacation time just because their parents are divorced.

Because managing two aging adults in separate properties is harder than one property. And because you might be single so your children, rather than a spouse or partner, has to be next of kin.

Stop thinking about how this will be in your 50s-70s. Think about how it will be in your 80s and 90s.

That is stupid. Many people don't live that long.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think men are struggling more than women after gray divorces

Yep! And feeling used and abandoned.

A lot of women around me make more than their husbands, and shoulder more house work. Are these men using the women?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In retirement, make sure each of you can have some of your own space in your home. And give each other the house, alone, some. Neither of you is responsible for finding ways for the other to fill their time. You aren't managing each other and shouldn't be judging how they spend their time. What is usually said about the challenges for couples in retirement is: it's twice the amount of togetherness while living on 1/2 of the money you're use to.

It's not half the money for those of us who planned well.

Planned well how? Short of an enforceable prenup, if your spouse has a lawyer with any experience, they will get half of the marital property, and if they have to hire a forensic accountant to find things you're hiding, you'll get reamed in paying back their out-of-pocket attorney and accountant fees, plus the judge will be angry and biased against you.