Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument gets lost when you discuss "trap" players when someone says "He/She can play up or at grade level"

Who said that? I might have missed it but could not find anyone who mistook trap with play up or at grade level?

the past two pages have a few different posts that are talking about its not a big deal, you can always play up, etc.

I think they were talking about those that might be in that small percentage of kids between new cut off date and various state school year cut off.

New ECNL cut off 8/1. Arkansas school cut off 9/1. Kid born 8/15 can either play "up" with her grade (assuming good enough) or "down" with her technical age group. But I could be wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument gets lost when you discuss "trap" players when someone says "He/She can play up or at grade level"

Who said that? I might have missed it but could not find anyone who mistook trap with play up or at grade level?

the past two pages have a few different posts that are talking about its not a big deal, you can always play up, etc.

My daughter is the only trapped player on her ecnl team. The other girls are born Jan - June. There will be 3 trapped players from the age group above that will take her spot and two other spots on the roster for 25-26. Unless there is a large influx from other clubs, it seems that it will take 2-3 years for the rosters to start skewing toward Aug-Dec birthdays.

Anonymous wrote:"Most elite academy teams are currently composed of 75-80% from Jan-Jun birthdays."



How long before most top teams are 75% Aug-December players?

A long long time because most of the kids dropped out along the way and the population of elite Q4 kids is tiny.

Anonymous wrote:"Most elite academy teams are currently composed of 75-80% from Jan-Jun birthdays."



How long before most top teams are 75% Aug-December players?

How long? The 5 or so months between when it is officially announced and the first day of tryouts!

"Most elite academy teams are currently composed of 75-80% from Jan-Jun birthdays."



How long before most top teams are 75% Aug-December players?

Anonymous wrote:Studies indicate Bio-Banding improves technical and tactical development and has a reduced physical load. Currently very few academies publicly promote it's use, although MLS Next does have provisions for it's use. They are not inherently explicit as to the application. Birth Year or School Year have implicit Relative Age Effect that directly effects player recruitment and retention at the highest levels. Most elite academy teams are currently composed of 75-80% from Jan-Jun birthdays.

I honestly think MLS could be best served by having MLSN be BY and ECNL boys be SY. MLSN will just need to make sure it maintains its first tier status (by not playing tournaments against older ECNL teams). In this scenario, MLSN doesn't need to bio-band down Aug-Dec boys often, because ECNL becomes its late-bloomer feeder league.

Studies indicate Bio-Banding improves technical and tactical development and has a reduced physical load. Currently very few academies publicly promote it's use, although MLS Next does have provisions for it's use. They are not inherently explicit as to the application. Birth Year or School Year have implicit Relative Age Effect that directly effects player recruitment and retention at the highest levels. Most elite academy teams are currently composed of 75-80% from Jan-Jun birthdays.

Anonymous wrote:The argument gets lost when you discuss "trap" players when someone says "He/She can play up or at grade level"

Who said that? I might have missed it but could not find anyone who mistook trap with play up or at grade level?

The argument gets lost when you discuss "trap" players when someone says "He/She can play up or at grade level"

The issue for true trap players is they don't have a team in 8th grade. Take a 2010s this fall/spring.

Some states have high school soccer in fall and some in spring - so depending on your state would depend on the club season - but the conversation is the same.

If you are a 2010 this year and you are an 8th grader, your teammates that are 9th will be playing in high school (either in fall or spring). if they play high school in fall, then you have no club in fall. You lost that season by being trapped. 2011s have fall and spring for club this year and likely have 8th graders on their team. But 2011s (u14) are spring/fall seasons. U15 (2010) and above are spring or fall (depending on how your state does high school soccer) ... so that season is "lost" being a trapped player.

If it went back to the August 1-July 31st cut offs, 99% of those 2010 8th graders would play this year. Any 2010 8th grader (August to Dec 2010) are trapped this fall or spring as their teammates play in high school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We homeschool our kids and play elite travel soccer. This is awesome, we will hold our kids back a year or two now! #GametheSystem #Dominate!

I get the joke, but hypothetically, if they change the cutoff to Aug 1 - July 31, holding back would not game the system because they are still limited by the year/age cutoff. Now, if it was strictly graduation year cutoff, then yeah, you could hold back for however many years you wanted and little Johnny could be 15 playing with 12 year olds who have the same graduation year.

Under the proposed new cutoff, you could hypothetically hold back a kid that started school early (the Aug. kids) to put them in the grade below and on line with their new team, but that would not change anything with their placement in soccer.

That's all well and good but over time SY will become GY simply because it's easier to implement and addresses all the squeaky wheels.

I agree, why they don’t go GY? The SY is not even a real SY with all the discrepancies in different schools and states. GY is easier to do.

Because 12 month with a 8-1 to 7-31 aligns with the vast majority of kids. And for the small group that it doesnt align perfectly with those kids have a choice to play up or stay down. It eliminates "red shirting" and "hold back" issues. A pretty good alternative to the disruption for the ~30-40% of trapped players currently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We homeschool our kids and play elite travel soccer. This is awesome, we will hold our kids back a year or two now! #GametheSystem #Dominate!

I get the joke, but hypothetically, if they change the cutoff to Aug 1 - July 31, holding back would not game the system because they are still limited by the year/age cutoff. Now, if it was strictly graduation year cutoff, then yeah, you could hold back for however many years you wanted and little Johnny could be 15 playing with 12 year olds who have the same graduation year.

Under the proposed new cutoff, you could hypothetically hold back a kid that started school early (the Aug. kids) to put them in the grade below and on line with their new team, but that would not change anything with their placement in soccer.

That's all well and good but over time SY will become GY simply because it's easier to implement and addresses all the squeaky wheels.

I agree, why they don’t go GY? The SY is not even a real SY with all the discrepancies in different schools and states. GY is easier to do.

Because there can be a 16 month difference in ages in grades depending on if you start your kid early or late, and that shouldn't have a bearing on sports.

These are the type of people you're going to be fighting against after switching from BY to SY.

And you'll end up just like the BY people that fought against switching to SY.

See how the slippery slope works?

And the reason GY people will get their way over time is because the people complaining will be parents. Not leagues, or clubs.

How is slippery slope relevant. I know its hard to believe but before 2017 there was a SY based window that didn't have waivers and all these other what ifs

There were waivers

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We homeschool our kids and play elite travel soccer. This is awesome, we will hold our kids back a year or two now! #GametheSystem #Dominate!

I get the joke, but hypothetically, if they change the cutoff to Aug 1 - July 31, holding back would not game the system because they are still limited by the year/age cutoff. Now, if it was strictly graduation year cutoff, then yeah, you could hold back for however many years you wanted and little Johnny could be 15 playing with 12 year olds who have the same graduation year.

Under the proposed new cutoff, you could hypothetically hold back a kid that started school early (the Aug. kids) to put them in the grade below and on line with their new team, but that would not change anything with their placement in soccer.

That's all well and good but over time SY will become GY simply because it's easier to implement and addresses all the squeaky wheels.

I agree, why they don’t go GY? The SY is not even a real SY with all the discrepancies in different schools and states. GY is easier to do.

Because there can be a 16 month difference in ages in grades depending on if you start your kid early or late, and that shouldn't have a bearing on sports.

These are the type of people you're going to be fighting against after switching from BY to SY.

And you'll end up just like the BY people that fought against switching to SY.

See how the slippery slope works?

And the reason GY people will get their way over time is because the people complaining will be parents. Not leagues, or clubs.

ADVOCATES AGAINST CHANGE
-Short term disruption
-Q1 or Q2 average player parent
-Alignment with something to do with international norms?

ADVOCATES FOR CHANGE
-More engagement at U-little level
-College coaches want it as it aligns much more with college recruitment
-Elmination of 95%+ trapped player issues
-Q3 Q4 average players

It would seem like it is pretty clear that if we are solving for what is best for the ALL of youth soccer, meaning make it better for the majority, the switch to School year makes the most sense. But I totally see the issues with clubs and the disruption as well as parents of kids that will be significantly impacted by potentially moving down a team.

There is no perfect solution. Sometimes you pick the least bad or fall back on pure Machiavellian precepts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We homeschool our kids and play elite travel soccer. This is awesome, we will hold our kids back a year or two now! #GametheSystem #Dominate!

I get the joke, but hypothetically, if they change the cutoff to Aug 1 - July 31, holding back would not game the system because they are still limited by the year/age cutoff. Now, if it was strictly graduation year cutoff, then yeah, you could hold back for however many years you wanted and little Johnny could be 15 playing with 12 year olds who have the same graduation year.

Under the proposed new cutoff, you could hypothetically hold back a kid that started school early (the Aug. kids) to put them in the grade below and on line with their new team, but that would not change anything with their placement in soccer.

That's all well and good but over time SY will become GY simply because it's easier to implement and addresses all the squeaky wheels.

I agree, why they don’t go GY? The SY is not even a real SY with all the discrepancies in different schools and states. GY is easier to do.

Because there can be a 16 month difference in ages in grades depending on if you start your kid early or late, and that shouldn't have a bearing on sports.

These are the type of people you're going to be fighting against after switching from BY to SY.

And you'll end up just like the BY people that fought against switching to SY.

See how the slippery slope works?

And the reason GY people will get their way over time is because the people complaining will be parents. Not leagues, or clubs.

How is slippery slope relevant. I know its hard to believe but before 2017 there was a SY based window that didn't have waivers and all these other what ifs

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We homeschool our kids and play elite travel soccer. This is awesome, we will hold our kids back a year or two now! #GametheSystem #Dominate!

I get the joke, but hypothetically, if they change the cutoff to Aug 1 - July 31, holding back would not game the system because they are still limited by the year/age cutoff. Now, if it was strictly graduation year cutoff, then yeah, you could hold back for however many years you wanted and little Johnny could be 15 playing with 12 year olds who have the same graduation year.

Under the proposed new cutoff, you could hypothetically hold back a kid that started school early (the Aug. kids) to put them in the grade below and on line with their new team, but that would not change anything with their placement in soccer.

That's all well and good but over time SY will become GY simply because it's easier to implement and addresses all the squeaky wheels.

I agree, why they don’t go GY? The SY is not even a real SY with all the discrepancies in different schools and states. GY is easier to do.

Because there can be a 16 month difference in ages in grades depending on if you start your kid early or late, and that shouldn't have a bearing on sports.

These are the type of people you're going to be fighting against after switching from BY to SY.

And you'll end up just like the BY people that fought against switching to SY.

See how the slippery slope works?

And the reason GY people will get their way over time is because the people complaining will be parents. Not leagues, or clubs.