Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

Thanks. I was not familiar with Stoic philosophy.

OP has had 10+ years watching her husband act this way. There's no evidence to expect him to suddenly buy a birthday present unprompted and plenty of history to show he won't, yet she's waiting around for him to do it anyway. That's akin to expecting fairies to do it.

You should read up on it, I suspect it would resonate with you. If you are familiar with the serenity prayer (I believe they say it in AA but I’m not sure), it’s basically stoicism in a nutshell.

Please enlighten me about how it’s stoic to be a lazy-*ss man?

She's responding to me and I already said I'm female. I'm a wife and mom giving advice to other wives and mothers based on my own experiences.

Your experiences that no doubt are completely different from OP’s. But why should women be stoic while men laze around? Please answer.

Because what many wives are doing (complaining, nagging, blaming, repeated wishful thinking) isn't getting them anywhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question…other than just outright asking someone you are dating to tell you if they have ADHD or whatever…is there some other less rude way to figure this out? Will people lie to you about it, even if you ask?

Seems like 90% of the relationship threads have someone (usually the man) with some ADHD or ASG or whatever diagnosis.

NP.

Make them plan a week long vacation.
It’s eye opening.

I just didn’t know what to call it and thank gawd I packed a guidebook and knew the top 5+ things to do as I had been in the vicinity before 15 years earlier.

The problem is I am very high functioning and we met in grad school, then was his hyper focus. Fast FW and I had capacity to plan the wedding, travel, bethesda home purchase, kid 1c nanny, keep working and then WHAM!!! Needed him to take the baton sometimes and he had NO CLUE. He’d go into shutdown mode, lash out, forget decisions we discussed, hide at work more and more. It was so nuts he went to take a neuropsych test as a 38 yo. He was asd/adhd, he still won’t do anything of the things his therapist suggested or anything we (I) read.

Am counting down the days until I think the youngest child can advocate for herself well. kid 1 has the same asd/adhd, dinner neuropsych test in 4th grade.

Not the life I envisioned but I kept my career, entity and clarity in his bad behavior patterns. The incompetency is so constant thought it’s unbelievable.

strangely, the ONLY thing my ex can do competently is plan a vacation. (but woe betide anyone who disagrees with his plan.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing “stoicism” in relation to a dysfunctional partner will get you is ever-deeper into denial and dysfunction. Being angry is actually more functional because it holds your partner at least somewhat accountable and may motivate you to take care of yourself. In fact the few times I was able to actually manage to get through to my ex was when I was very, very angry and sincerely at the end of my rope, and showed it.

Stoicism and acceptance are for things you actually cannot change. Not dysfunctional (or abusive) partners.

You really think you can change dysfunctional or abusive partners? I strongly disagree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

Thanks. I was not familiar with Stoic philosophy.

OP has had 10+ years watching her husband act this way. There's no evidence to expect him to suddenly buy a birthday present unprompted and plenty of history to show he won't, yet she's waiting around for him to do it anyway. That's akin to expecting fairies to do it.

You should read up on it, I suspect it would resonate with you. If you are familiar with the serenity prayer (I believe they say it in AA but I’m not sure), it’s basically stoicism in a nutshell.

Please enlighten me about how it’s stoic to be a lazy-*ss man?

She's responding to me and I already said I'm female. I'm a wife and mom giving advice to other wives and mothers based on my own experiences.

Your experiences that no doubt are completely different from OP’s. But why should women be stoic while men laze around? Please answer.

Anonymous wrote:The only thing “stoicism” in relation to a dysfunctional partner will get you is ever-deeper into denial and dysfunction. Being angry is actually more functional because it holds your partner at least somewhat accountable and may motivate you to take care of yourself. In fact the few times I was able to actually manage to get through to my ex was when I was very, very angry and sincerely at the end of my rope, and showed it.

Stoicism and acceptance are for things you actually cannot change. Not dysfunctional (or abusive) partners.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

Thanks. I was not familiar with Stoic philosophy.

OP has had 10+ years watching her husband act this way. There's no evidence to expect him to suddenly buy a birthday present unprompted and plenty of history to show he won't, yet she's waiting around for him to do it anyway. That's akin to expecting fairies to do it.

You should read up on it, I suspect it would resonate with you. If you are familiar with the serenity prayer (I believe they say it in AA but I’m not sure), it’s basically stoicism in a nutshell.

Please enlighten me about how it’s stoic to be a lazy-*ss man?

She's responding to me and I already said I'm female. I'm a wife and mom giving advice to other wives and mothers based on my own experiences.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

Thanks. I was not familiar with Stoic philosophy.

OP has had 10+ years watching her husband act this way. There's no evidence to expect him to suddenly buy a birthday present unprompted and plenty of history to show he won't, yet she's waiting around for him to do it anyway. That's akin to expecting fairies to do it.

You should read up on it, I suspect it would resonate with you. If you are familiar with the serenity prayer (I believe they say it in AA but I’m not sure), it’s basically stoicism in a nutshell.

Please enlighten me about how it’s stoic to be a lazy-*ss man?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

Thanks. I was not familiar with Stoic philosophy.

OP has had 10+ years watching her husband act this way. There's no evidence to expect him to suddenly buy a birthday present unprompted and plenty of history to show he won't, yet she's waiting around for him to do it anyway. That's akin to expecting fairies to do it.

You should read up on it, I suspect it would resonate with you. If you are familiar with the serenity prayer (I believe they say it in AA but I’m not sure), it’s basically stoicism in a nutshell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

Thanks. I was not familiar with Stoic philosophy.

OP has had 10+ years watching her husband act this way. There's no evidence to expect him to suddenly buy a birthday present unprompted and plenty of history to show he won't, yet she's waiting around for him to do it anyway. That's akin to expecting fairies to do it.

Anonymous wrote:I am in charge of 95%+ of the household admin and am the main breadwinner. I am constantly resentful bc I am always either working, doing admin or at best telling dh to do things bc he does not initiate the need to do or buy anything that needs to be bought or happen. He took ds to an 8th birthday party today while I took other dc on overnight for travel sport. I reminded him multiple times about party and that he would need a gift; he said he would get the gift. ds tells me this evening that they were late to the party bc dh overslept and had no gift so gave kid money in envelope.
yes dh has adhd. yes is on meds.
I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

I've seen you advocating for stoicism on this board before and I find it funny because if there is anything that runs counter to Stoic philosophy it's arguing with strangers online about things that don't impact you at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.