Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m middle class, I drive the SL so I don’t pay this stupidity tax. And enforcing speed limits IS about safety.

Drive the SL OP.

The problem is that speed cameras don't enforce speed limits, especially if you are a VA or MD driver. On the contrary, speed bumps actually enforce speed limits.

What a great argument for speed-camera reciprocity.

-Maryland resident

There is reciprocity between DC, MD, and VA, but only for tickets issued by police officers. The law doesn't allow reciprocity for speed cameras tickets.

Maryland and Virginia could enter into reciprocal agreements with DC, and should do so.

https://lims.dccouncil.gov/downloads/LIMS/47968/Introduction/RC24-0078-Introduction.pdf

Virginia And Maryland Rebuffed D.C.’s Request To Force Drivers To Pay Traffic Camera Tickets

https://dcist.com/story/21/10/08/virginia-and-maryland-rebuff-dc-request-to-force-drivers-to-pay-traffic-camera-tickets/#

Tickets written by police are subject to reciprocity under the Non-Resident Violators Compact, in which 44 states (including Maryland, Virginia, and D.C.) participate. But the automated ticket cameras are not included under those agreements.

Right. That needs to change.

It should change, but it will never change. That change would be a political harakiri for MD and VA politicians. "The District has hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of outstanding fines at stake, which could prove challenging for neighboring politicians who don’t want to appear to be doing the District’s bidding, city officials said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/12/28/dc-virginia-maryland-ticket-reciprocity/

It should change, and it can change. There's already reciprocity for non-automated citations. I'm sure Maryland and Virginia elected officials want DC drivers in Maryland and Virginia to have to pay their automated citations. So there you go: reciprocity.

It won't change. It was already tried and rejected.

"Virginia And Maryland Rebuffed D.C.’s Request To Force Drivers To Pay Traffic Camera Tickets"

https://dcist.com/story/21/10/08/virginia-and...fic-camera-tickets/#

You might have noticed that Maryland has a different governor now.

If you have bothered to read the article you should have noticed that that it was a legislature decision controlled by Democrats in 2021.

So? There was an election in 2022.

Give it up. It's already bad enough that MD catches many criminals coming over the border to commit crimes, only to have DC release them for "equity" reasons. DC should get its act together in prosecuting criminals that MD hands them on a silver platter before worrying about collecting traffic ticket fines from MD residents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

If traffic cameras actually make streets safer, this should not be a hard question.

Let's start with the correct numbers, eh?

Then you can fix your incorrect assumption that automated enforcement doesn't change driving behavior.

Then you can explain what the crash data would have been like in DC during those years if there hadn't been automated enforcement, and how you reached those conclusions.

And then, finally, I'm hoping you'll explain why you believe it's good for DC when drivers can run stop signs and red lights with impunity.

Those are the DC government's stats (who else would be tracking such things?).

Replacing cops with cameras means 1. safety improves on streets with cameras and 2. safety worsens on (the many more) streets without cameras. I'm just asking you to point out when the sum of those two things began reducing traffic deaths. Your lame and evasive response screams loud and clear that you can't say.

This is all based on wishful thinking and nothing else.

No, they're your selective interpretation, based on false assumptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m middle class, I drive the SL so I don’t pay this stupidity tax. And enforcing speed limits IS about safety.

Drive the SL OP.

The problem is that speed cameras don't enforce speed limits, especially if you are a VA or MD driver. On the contrary, speed bumps actually enforce speed limits.

What a great argument for speed-camera reciprocity.

-Maryland resident

There is reciprocity between DC, MD, and VA, but only for tickets issued by police officers. The law doesn't allow reciprocity for speed cameras tickets.

Maryland and Virginia could enter into reciprocal agreements with DC, and should do so.

https://lims.dccouncil.gov/downloads/LIMS/47968/Introduction/RC24-0078-Introduction.pdf

Virginia And Maryland Rebuffed D.C.’s Request To Force Drivers To Pay Traffic Camera Tickets

https://dcist.com/story/21/10/08/virginia-and-maryland-rebuff-dc-request-to-force-drivers-to-pay-traffic-camera-tickets/#

Tickets written by police are subject to reciprocity under the Non-Resident Violators Compact, in which 44 states (including Maryland, Virginia, and D.C.) participate. But the automated ticket cameras are not included under those agreements.

Right. That needs to change.

It should change, but it will never change. That change would be a political harakiri for MD and VA politicians. "The District has hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of outstanding fines at stake, which could prove challenging for neighboring politicians who don’t want to appear to be doing the District’s bidding, city officials said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/12/28/dc-virginia-maryland-ticket-reciprocity/

It should change, and it can change. There's already reciprocity for non-automated citations. I'm sure Maryland and Virginia elected officials want DC drivers in Maryland and Virginia to have to pay their automated citations. So there you go: reciprocity.

It won't change. It was already tried and rejected.

"Virginia And Maryland Rebuffed D.C.’s Request To Force Drivers To Pay Traffic Camera Tickets"

https://dcist.com/story/21/10/08/virginia-and...fic-camera-tickets/#

You might have noticed that Maryland has a different governor now.

If you have bothered to read the article you should have noticed that that it was a legislature decision controlled by Democrats in 2021.

So? There was an election in 2022.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m middle class, I drive the SL so I don’t pay this stupidity tax. And enforcing speed limits IS about safety.

Drive the SL OP.

The problem is that speed cameras don't enforce speed limits, especially if you are a VA or MD driver. On the contrary, speed bumps actually enforce speed limits.

What a great argument for speed-camera reciprocity.

-Maryland resident

There is reciprocity between DC, MD, and VA, but only for tickets issued by police officers. The law doesn't allow reciprocity for speed cameras tickets.

Maryland and Virginia could enter into reciprocal agreements with DC, and should do so.

https://lims.dccouncil.gov/downloads/LIMS/47968/Introduction/RC24-0078-Introduction.pdf

Virginia And Maryland Rebuffed D.C.’s Request To Force Drivers To Pay Traffic Camera Tickets

https://dcist.com/story/21/10/08/virginia-and-maryland-rebuff-dc-request-to-force-drivers-to-pay-traffic-camera-tickets/#

Tickets written by police are subject to reciprocity under the Non-Resident Violators Compact, in which 44 states (including Maryland, Virginia, and D.C.) participate. But the automated ticket cameras are not included under those agreements.

Right. That needs to change.

It should change, but it will never change. That change would be a political harakiri for MD and VA politicians. "The District has hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of outstanding fines at stake, which could prove challenging for neighboring politicians who don’t want to appear to be doing the District’s bidding, city officials said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/12/28/dc-virginia-maryland-ticket-reciprocity/

It should change, and it can change. There's already reciprocity for non-automated citations. I'm sure Maryland and Virginia elected officials want DC drivers in Maryland and Virginia to have to pay their automated citations. So there you go: reciprocity.

It won't change. It was already tried and rejected.

"Virginia And Maryland Rebuffed D.C.’s Request To Force Drivers To Pay Traffic Camera Tickets"

https://dcist.com/story/21/10/08/virginia-and...fic-camera-tickets/#

You might have noticed that Maryland has a different governor now.

If you have bothered to read the article you should have noticed that that it was a legislature decision controlled by Democrats in 2021.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

If traffic cameras actually make streets safer, this should not be a hard question.

Let's start with the correct numbers, eh?

Then you can fix your incorrect assumption that automated enforcement doesn't change driving behavior.

Then you can explain what the crash data would have been like in DC during those years if there hadn't been automated enforcement, and how you reached those conclusions.

And then, finally, I'm hoping you'll explain why you believe it's good for DC when drivers can run stop signs and red lights with impunity.

People did not run red lights or stop signs with impunity when the traffic laws were enforced by humans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

If traffic cameras actually make streets safer, this should not be a hard question.

Let's start with the correct numbers, eh?

Then you can fix your incorrect assumption that automated enforcement doesn't change driving behavior.

Then you can explain what the crash data would have been like in DC during those years if there hadn't been automated enforcement, and how you reached those conclusions.

And then, finally, I'm hoping you'll explain why you believe it's good for DC when drivers can run stop signs and red lights with impunity.

Those are the DC government's stats (who else would be tracking such things?).

Replacing cops with cameras means 1. safety improves on streets with cameras and 2. safety worsens on (the many more) streets without cameras. I'm just asking you to point out when the sum of those two things began reducing traffic deaths. Your lame and evasive response screams loud and clear that you can't say.

This is all based on wishful thinking and nothing else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

If traffic cameras actually make streets safer, this should not be a hard question.

Let's start with the correct numbers, eh?

Then you can fix your incorrect assumption that automated enforcement doesn't change driving behavior.

Then you can explain what the crash data would have been like in DC during those years if there hadn't been automated enforcement, and how you reached those conclusions.

And then, finally, I'm hoping you'll explain why you believe it's good for DC when drivers can run stop signs and red lights with impunity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

If traffic cameras actually make streets safer, this should not be a hard question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not clear to me why DC doesn't go gung-ho on booting and towing cars with tons of fines - especially if the car has MD or VA plates.

Take those cars to Blue Plains and have the drivers pay off their balance to get the car back. Can't pay? The vehicle goes up for auction.

The DC government is loath to actually enforce any of its traffic laws. That's why you're seeing traffic fatalities rise - bad drivers go unpunished and don't get their keys taken away.

As proven 3 pages ago, we are emphatically NOT seeing traffic fatalities increase in the District

that’s a lie - fatalities in 2023 sharply increased.
https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/traffic-data

Automobile deaths due to speeding have been demonstrated to have remained constant. The citation is a few pages ago. We are talking about speeding And speed cameras. And those deaths haven’t gone up. It’s disingenuous to conflate texting and driving drunk driving driving while high and everything else. Which is what that link shows

Such assertions belie a complete lack of understanding of the nature of vehicular crashes.

First, crashes frequently have more than one cause. A driver may be impaired, distracted, and speeding. The absence of any one of these factors may prevent a fatal crash, but the determination of which factor is primary to the crash is completely subjective.

Second, cars do not have black boxes. It is often impossible to definitively determine whether a driver was speeding prior to the crash. It is, however, trivial to determine whether a driver was impaired or whether a pedestrian or cyclist were not where they should have been. Even determining whether a driver was distracted can be easier than determining the speed of the vehicle. Unfortunately, crash investigators will conflate the absence of evidence with evidence of absence.

Third, basic physics tell us that excess speed is a precondition for a fatal accident, particularly in cities (where speed limits are lower) and particularly for pedestrian and cyclist fatalities. We know, for instance, that the likelihood of death from a 20-25 mph impact is minimal, but probable for an impact in excess of 35mph.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not clear to me why DC doesn't go gung-ho on booting and towing cars with tons of fines - especially if the car has MD or VA plates.

Take those cars to Blue Plains and have the drivers pay off their balance to get the car back. Can't pay? The vehicle goes up for auction.

The DC government is loath to actually enforce any of its traffic laws. That's why you're seeing traffic fatalities rise - bad drivers go unpunished and don't get their keys taken away.

As proven 3 pages ago, we are emphatically NOT seeing traffic fatalities increase in the District

that’s a lie - fatalities in 2023 sharply increased.
https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/traffic-data

Automobile deaths due to speeding have been demonstrated to have remained constant. The citation is a few pages ago. We are talking about speeding And speed cameras. And those deaths haven’t gone up. It’s disingenuous to conflate texting and driving drunk driving driving while high and everything else. Which is what that link shows

Stop sign cameras and red light cameras aren’t about speeding, hun. And as we have patiently explained, MPD’s data doesn’t definitively speeding wasn’t involved.

Follow the law and you won’t get a ticket.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not clear to me why DC doesn't go gung-ho on booting and towing cars with tons of fines - especially if the car has MD or VA plates.

Take those cars to Blue Plains and have the drivers pay off their balance to get the car back. Can't pay? The vehicle goes up for auction.

The DC government is loath to actually enforce any of its traffic laws. That's why you're seeing traffic fatalities rise - bad drivers go unpunished and don't get their keys taken away.

As proven 3 pages ago, we are emphatically NOT seeing traffic fatalities increase in the District

that’s a lie - fatalities in 2023 sharply increased.
https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/traffic-data

Automobile deaths due to speeding have been demonstrated to have remained constant. The citation is a few pages ago. We are talking about speeding And speed cameras. And those deaths haven’t gone up. It’s disingenuous to conflate texting and driving drunk driving driving while high and everything else. Which is what that link shows

You have a weird fixation about this. As though speed were a completely separate issue from distracted driving and drunk driving. As though you can only speed OR drive distracted OR drive drunk, it's not possible to do multiple bad things at once.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not clear to me why DC doesn't go gung-ho on booting and towing cars with tons of fines - especially if the car has MD or VA plates.

Take those cars to Blue Plains and have the drivers pay off their balance to get the car back. Can't pay? The vehicle goes up for auction.

The DC government is loath to actually enforce any of its traffic laws. That's why you're seeing traffic fatalities rise - bad drivers go unpunished and don't get their keys taken away.

As proven 3 pages ago, we are emphatically NOT seeing traffic fatalities increase in the District

that’s a lie - fatalities in 2023 sharply increased.
https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/traffic-data

Automobile deaths due to speeding have been demonstrated to have remained constant. The citation is a few pages ago. We are talking about speeding And speed cameras. And those deaths haven’t gone up. It’s disingenuous to conflate texting and driving drunk driving driving while high and everything else. Which is what that link shows

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not clear to me why DC doesn't go gung-ho on booting and towing cars with tons of fines - especially if the car has MD or VA plates.

Take those cars to Blue Plains and have the drivers pay off their balance to get the car back. Can't pay? The vehicle goes up for auction.

The DC government is loath to actually enforce any of its traffic laws. That's why you're seeing traffic fatalities rise - bad drivers go unpunished and don't get their keys taken away.

As proven 3 pages ago, we are emphatically NOT seeing traffic fatalities increase in the District

that’s a lie - fatalities in 2023 sharply increased.
https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/traffic-data

Anonymous wrote:It's not clear to me why DC doesn't go gung-ho on booting and towing cars with tons of fines - especially if the car has MD or VA plates.

Take those cars to Blue Plains and have the drivers pay off their balance to get the car back. Can't pay? The vehicle goes up for auction.

The DC government is loath to actually enforce any of its traffic laws. That's why you're seeing traffic fatalities rise - bad drivers go unpunished and don't get their keys taken away.

As proven 3 pages ago, we are emphatically NOT seeing traffic fatalities increase in the District