Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Many Federal finance jobs already are in the excepted civil service and pay much better. Some legal jobs also are, but those mainly are at financial parts of the government.

excepted service does not necessarily mean better pay. Many attorneys are excepted service but receive GS pay.

There also are MANY attorneys who are in the excepted service AND do receive better pay. Being in the competitive service totally precludes that better pay possibility.

Excepted service and non-GS pay scales are completely unrelated concepts.

Actually not completely unrelated, and here is an example.

In the excepted civil service the GS-15 pay cap CAN be waived (though sometimes it is not waived). In the competitive civil service, by contrast, that pay cap NEVER can be waived.

I was an excepted service employee for 7 years. They can be related, but just as often are not. They do not automatically go hand in hand and are agency specific. My pay mirrored the GS scale. My conditions of employment were completely different. The biggest caveat of the excepted service is that although you can make a career out of it, you usually don't have the same protections/employment rules as a permanent full time employee. In my agency's case, it is not better and most employees aim to land a permanent GS position.

Anonymous wrote:I think all of you are arguing the same point: the GS pay scale cap is problematic for a highly educated workforce. The best estimate is that a 20-25% rise would fix this problem.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235

Graph at start of CBO study suggests that mist Federal pay is "close enough", including for Bachelors degree and Masters degree holders, but with the exception being positions requiring a PhD or (what CBO defines as) a Professional degree.

Caveat: CBO's definition of a Professional degree might vary from how that term is used in certain career fields.

Anonymous wrote:In the competitive civil service, by contrast, that pay cap NEVER can be waived.

This isn’t true. For example, FDA Title 21 positions can be in the competitive service but exceed the GS pay cap. A quick look at USAjobs also shows plenty of SEC positions that pay above the cap yet are in the competitive service.

Moving from the traditional GS grade/step scheme to a more flexible "pay band" system definitely helped at NSWC in Carderock.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Many Federal finance jobs already are in the excepted civil service and pay much better. Some legal jobs also are, but those mainly are at financial parts of the government.

excepted service does not necessarily mean better pay. Many attorneys are excepted service but receive GS pay.

I think all of you are arguing the same point: the GS pay scale cap is problematic for a highly educated workforce. The best estimate is that a 20-25% rise would fix this problem.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235

URL is helpful, thanks.

I at least would phrase it differently. Try this:

The current GS structure breaks down for certain specific jobs where the pay offered by the civil service GS system is a LOT (i.e., not merely a little) lower than the market rate. (Stability of Federal employment usually can make up for smaller salary gaps.).

Further, ongoing difficulty with recruiting and retention ought to be the benchmarks for whether that is the case for a particular job category.

I would expect different job categories to move in and out of those difficulties over time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Many Federal finance jobs already are in the excepted civil service and pay much better. Some legal jobs also are, but those mainly are at financial parts of the government.

excepted service does not necessarily mean better pay. Many attorneys are excepted service but receive GS pay.

There also are MANY attorneys who are in the excepted service AND do receive better pay. Being in the competitive service totally precludes that better pay possibility.

Excepted service and non-GS pay scales are completely unrelated concepts.

Actually not completely unrelated, and here is an example.

In the excepted civil service the GS-15 pay cap CAN be waived (though sometimes it is not waived). In the competitive civil service, by contrast, that pay cap NEVER can be waived.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Many Federal finance jobs already are in the excepted civil service and pay much better. Some legal jobs also are, but those mainly are at financial parts of the government.

excepted service does not necessarily mean better pay. Many attorneys are excepted service but receive GS pay.

There also are MANY attorneys who are in the excepted service AND do receive better pay. Being in the competitive service totally precludes that better pay possibility.

Excepted service and non-GS pay scales are completely unrelated concepts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Many Federal finance jobs already are in the excepted civil service and pay much better. Some legal jobs also are, but those mainly are at financial parts of the government.

excepted service does not necessarily mean better pay. Many attorneys are excepted service but receive GS pay.

There also are MANY attorneys who are in the excepted service AND do receive better pay. Being in the competitive service totally precludes that better pay possibility.

The IT dept at my agency is terrible. There's often unplanned outages that lead to work stoppage and lost productivity. My coworker and I were saying that if they just invested in some competent people at a competitive wage, it would more than pay for itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Many Federal finance jobs already are in the excepted civil service and pay much better. Some legal jobs also are, but those mainly are at financial parts of the government.

excepted service does not necessarily mean better pay. Many attorneys are excepted service but receive GS pay.

I think all of you are arguing the same point: the GS pay scale cap is problematic for a highly educated workforce. The best estimate is that a 20-25% rise would fix this problem.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Many Federal finance jobs already are in the excepted civil service and pay much better. Some legal jobs also are, but those mainly are at financial parts of the government.

excepted service does not necessarily mean better pay. Many attorneys are excepted service but receive GS pay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Many Federal finance jobs already are in the excepted civil service and pay much better. Some legal jobs also are, but those mainly are at financial parts of the government.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2025 is here! just 19 more days until our King is inaugurated and federal employees are eviscerated!

You sound stable

I'm very stable! Can't wait to see you feds in food bank lines and losing your homes come JANUARY 20

So you're hoping for some kind of economic meltdown - yeah that sounds stable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.

Good morning, bitter Betty!

Anonymous wrote:In my part of the civil service, which is filled with STEM grad degrees, really the biggest issue is the GS-15 pay cap.

There really ought to be an entirely different pay system for STEM.

Because you are so special? You know the same holds true for several other disciplines right? Legal and finance immediately come to mind.