Anonymous wrote:The algebra 2 curriculum is really no more abstract than the algebra 1 curriculum these days. I would not worry about that.

Algebra 1 transforms linear, quadratic, and exponential functions. Algebra 2 transforms cubic, radical, and rational functions. Algebra 2 does laws of exponents with negative powers, algebra 2 introduces fractional exponents. Algebra 1 factors quadratics. Algebra 2 factors higher order polynomials. The only really abstract thing in algebra 2 that isn’t addressed in algebra 1 is imaginary numbers, but we don’t do much of anything with them, just find them.

The bigger struggle is the organizational skills (or lack of) the younger kids display in higher coursework. Can your child realistically manage scheduling and keeping track of assignments/quizzes/retakes in a class at this point? Do they leave their homework folder at school? Are they shocked by a quiz they didn’t know was happening? Do they lose their test before they can do corrections? That might be worth another year of practicing skills before they count.

Absolutely correct! Organizational skills is why I will not enroll my son in 6th grade Algebra. He will take it as a 7th or 8th grade when he starts taking grades A to F seriously.
Currently in elementary he doesn’t care if he gets 4s or 3s and does not prepare for any tests, doesn’t go through the wrong answers and submit the correction.

Anonymous wrote:The algebra 2 curriculum is really no more abstract than the algebra 1 curriculum these days. I would not worry about that.

Algebra 1 transforms linear, quadratic, and exponential functions. Algebra 2 transforms cubic, radical, and rational functions. Algebra 2 does laws of exponents with negative powers, algebra 2 introduces fractional exponents. Algebra 1 factors quadratics. Algebra 2 factors higher order polynomials. The only really abstract thing in algebra 2 that isn’t addressed in algebra 1 is imaginary numbers, but we don’t do much of anything with them, just find them.

The bigger struggle is the organizational skills (or lack of) the younger kids display in higher coursework. Can your child realistically manage scheduling and keeping track of assignments/quizzes/retakes in a class at this point? Do they leave their homework folder at school? Are they shocked by a quiz they didn’t know was happening? Do they lose their test before they can do corrections? That might be worth another year of practicing skills before they count.

Sorry, meant to state I teach algebra 2 to mainly freshmen and taught middle school algebra 1 for a decade. The ones who struggle are the ones displaying traits above.

The algebra 2 curriculum is really no more abstract than the algebra 1 curriculum these days. I would not worry about that.

Algebra 1 transforms linear, quadratic, and exponential functions. Algebra 2 transforms cubic, radical, and rational functions. Algebra 2 does laws of exponents with negative powers, algebra 2 introduces fractional exponents. Algebra 1 factors quadratics. Algebra 2 factors higher order polynomials. The only really abstract thing in algebra 2 that isn’t addressed in algebra 1 is imaginary numbers, but we don’t do much of anything with them, just find them.

The bigger struggle is the organizational skills (or lack of) the younger kids display in higher coursework. Can your child realistically manage scheduling and keeping track of assignments/quizzes/retakes in a class at this point? Do they leave their homework folder at school? Are they shocked by a quiz they didn’t know was happening? Do they lose their test before they can do corrections? That might be worth another year of practicing skills before they count.

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Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

Even if you meet the college's prerequisites, the high school can still refuse to let you skip into a DE course by refusing to issue high school credit for any college classes taken without their permission.

Also, as others have said, AP courses are not DE courses. Community colleges do not get their curriculum approved by the college board which is what is required to call a class and AP class.

Just curious, when would you have your child take the AB exam independently? The same year they're enrolled in precalc?

One of the PP here; so... the AB exam is now only 2 days away. He's taking the AP Calc AB and AP Precalc exams Mo/Tu in this order.
(Calc AB as an external student, and Precalc being enrolled in the AP/DE course offered by the school.) The school was actually nice about it and treated him like any other external/home-schooled student even though he attends the school. He'll probably even get an "excused" for not being in class that day. In 2 months (or whenever the results are released) I'll follow up about results and fall enrollment for the DCUM skeptics.

We meanwhile also learned how the DE portion of the AP/DE Precalc course is scored: students take a separate DE exam in order to get the local college credit (if they so desire).

My kid is auto enrolled in Algebra I for 7th and I think will do just fine, the concepts are very concrete. It's early taking of Algebra II that I worry about more as the concepts are more abstract and sometimes even the brightest math students' brains are not ready to think that way....

Anonymous wrote:Clearly hundreds of AAP students have welcomed A1H in 6th grade option. Those that were admitted into A1H but later find it too difficult, are they still forced to do it or can they request to switch back to something lighter?

There are kids who are ready but not 700 kids. I would love to know how many kids dropped out of the pilot and how many kids are going to be retaking A1H in 7th grade. I doubt FCPS will release that information. The option should be available and the kids selected using a better process. Kids who want to try for A1H in 6th should take the IAAT and have to pass at the 91rst percentile, like you used ot have to do for A1H in 7th grade. They should have to have a minimum score on the MAP, and pass the SOL advanced.

FCPS has enough striver parents who see all forms acceleration as a good thing that there was not way this program wasn't going to explode when offered. The COunty has provided weak guardrails and there are going to be kids who suffer for it. Sith and Seventh graders going to regular tutoring so that they can be hyper accelerated in math is not good for the kid and we all know that there are kids in exactly that situation.

Anonymous wrote:Clearly hundreds of AAP students have welcomed A1H in 6th grade option. Those that were admitted into A1H but later find it too difficult, are they still forced to do it or can they request to switch back to something lighter?

Once you start the acceleration, you cannot easily stop it.

If you select 6th grade A1H you can drop back to AAP math. THere is no regular Algebra class, that is not an option. You can chose to complete the year, expunge the grade and retake the class. Dropping down and retaking the class can be detrimental to a child who is used to being good at math and now has struggled. Parents can try and mitigate that but the likelihood of success is dependent on your kids personality. I know good kids who having loving parents who see the B hey got in A1H in 7th grade as being a bad grade and think they are not good at math.

If you select A1H in 7th grade you can drop back to M7H, there is no regular Algebra class for 7th graders. Or you can complete the class and expunge the grade to retake it.

Once you complete A1H and move to the next class in 6th or 7th grade you are on the honors path through Algebra 2, if you took A1H in 6th grade, or Geometry, if you took A1H in 7th grade. I believe that you can take Algebra 2 as a 9th grader.

If you are taking Algebra 2 as a 9th grader, then you probably take AP Precalc AB in 10th, Calc AB in 11th and can select AP stats in 12th.

What is the rush? I say this as a professor in mathematics.

Clearly hundreds of AAP students have welcomed A1H in 6th grade option. Those that were admitted into A1H but later find it too difficult, are they still forced to do it or can they request to switch back to something lighter?

You can attend college with three years of math or four years and not calculus. There are plenty of schools in the US that don’t require or want calculus. People on this board don’t like to discuss them or look down on those colleges because they prioritize programs like AAP, TJ, and top 20 schools. There are smart kids who struggle with math or on’t like math that finish without Calculus and get into top 50 programs. They have AP classes in the humanities and sciences and they do fine in college admissions.

Most kids are accepted to even the top 20 schools with Calculus AB as their highest level math. Most of the country doesn’t allow Algebra 1 until 8th grade so Calculus is the highest level math a kid can take. Do a quick Google search, 15% of Americans take Calculus in HS, link below. 15%

Many schools will not count the DE Linear Algebra and Multivariate Calculus classes as completed college courses. There are two kids on my street that had to retake it at different colleges. It wasn’t a big deal for them, the classes were easier because they had been exposed to the material but DE classes are not automatically accepted.

https://maa.org/math-values/the-decline-in-high-school-calculus/

I understand that there are kids ready for Algebra in 6th grade but that number is not in the thousands. There is no good reason to rush kids into A1H. The few kids that are ready should be able to take it at every school in FCPS, not just the 20 or so that were willing to work with parents so the kid could take it. We know from A1H in 7th grade that some of the kids, more then people think, that tested into the class struggled. Kids dropped to M7H, kids got C’s and retook the class. Opening A1H to every kid in Advanced Math or AAP who passes the SOL is stupid.

Anonymous wrote:Are there any color admissions benefit to take algebra 1 in 6th grade? Will that be upto
Differential equations in grade 12? Is that course useful for college?
Trying to understand what’s the rush?

FCPS only requires Algebra 2 by 12th grade. If that’s the plan, the rest may feel rushed. My barber thinks it's crazy to go beyond that for any high school.

Anonymous wrote:Are there any color admissions benefit to take algebra 1 in 6th grade? Will that be upto
Differential equations in grade 12? Is that course useful for college?
Trying to understand what’s the rush?

No.