Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of us were a bit worried about Nate when Rupert was love bombing him to come to ManU. I wouldn't have really had a problem with Nate leaving Ted's team for a better position, if it hadn't been for the awful things he was saying about Ted as and after he was doing it. I resented Nate's comments; they were so small of him when Ted was the hand up to Nate becoming more than just a towel boy. To spit back in the face of that was wrong, to me, whatever promotion decisions he was making, as was his right as team coach.

I've never written about Nate as a villain on this board, but some of his actions, to me, have been morally wrong. Sure, move teams. But don't belittle the guy who believed in you when you were nothing.

Not endorsing Nate's behavior, but I think Ted Lasso would say that no one is ever "nothing" and everyone deserves to be believed in.

Sure, everyone deserves it, but not everyone gives it, and nobody gave Nate a real chance before Ted. Insulting the people who took the time to nurture you when you were starting up is rather awful. Who is Nate believing in, exactly, besides himself?

And I like the journey Nate is on, but he's going to need to do more changing. What kind of respect is he giving to his players when he belittles them at practice and scares them into working hard? That's his coaching style now, apparently. I don't think we're supposed to admire that, although I guess it could achieve results. Nate is clearly questioning the belief system that has gotten him to this point and that's a good thing, I hope he keeps going.

Anonymous wrote:I think most of us were a bit worried about Nate when Rupert was love bombing him to come to ManU. I wouldn't have really had a problem with Nate leaving Ted's team for a better position, if it hadn't been for the awful things he was saying about Ted as and after he was doing it. I resented Nate's comments; they were so small of him when Ted was the hand up to Nate becoming more than just a towel boy. To spit back in the face of that was wrong, to me, whatever promotion decisions he was making, as was his right as team coach.

I've never written about Nate as a villain on this board, but some of his actions, to me, have been morally wrong. Sure, move teams. But don't belittle the guy who believed in you when you were nothing.

Not endorsing Nate's behavior, but I think Ted Lasso would say that no one is ever "nothing" and everyone deserves to be believed in.

I think most of us were a bit worried about Nate when Rupert was love bombing him to come to ManU. I wouldn't have really had a problem with Nate leaving Ted's team for a better position, if it hadn't been for the awful things he was saying about Ted as and after he was doing it. I resented Nate's comments; they were so small of him when Ted was the hand up to Nate becoming more than just a towel boy. To spit back in the face of that was wrong, to me, whatever promotion decisions he was making, as was his right as team coach.

I've never written about Nate as a villain on this board, but some of his actions, to me, have been morally wrong. Sure, move teams. But don't belittle the guy who believed in you when you were nothing.

Anonymous wrote:Nate should have told Ted how he felt. Instead, he bottled it up and had a tantrum. It’s all understandable given his background, but that doesn’t mean Ted did anything wrong.

Some earlier PP acted like Nate was an abuser who couldn’t turn things around. I disagree with that. It’s not like Nate has a long history of being a bully. He tried out the bully personality a few times after Rebecca told him to make himself big, but I think he’s realizing that isn’t who he wants to be. Nate just has to figure out how to be the nice guy that he is without being a doormat. That can be a hard balance to strike. Leadership isn’t natural for everyone.

Agree Ted didn't do anything wrong but also don't really think Nate did either. I don't even agree he had a "tantrum" except maybe a small private one (when he tore up that sign in Ted's office). But his confrontation with Ted wasn't a tantrum -- he was expressing his feelings honestly and directly. Sure, he was doing it emotionally and with anger, but that's how he felt, that's normal. He didn't even bottle his emotions up for that long -- this was what, over the course of a few months? I think he had a bad few months personally and professionally and in the end he wound up yelling at his boss for what he viewed as overlooking him.

Nate's decision to go to ManU is treated as this big betrayal but viewing it that way is more dramatic than what he actually did. After some strategic success at Richmond and after feeling pushed aside with Roy's hiring, he was offered a job that was a huge step up, on a very successful and well funded team, and he took it. That's.... normal. Again, it can even be viewed as healthy. He could have left in a more graceful way, and he has said some rude/competitive things about Ted publicly afterwards, both of which were childish. But he didn't actually DO anything to him. He did not owe it to Ted to turn down that offer out of loyalty, especially when he was unsure of what the future held for him at Richmond -- he was basically the third (of three) assistant coaches. Turning down that offer would have been dumb, frankly.

Jaime did much worse things in season 1. Heck, Rebecca's treatment of Ted in Season 1 is worse -- it was essentially a long con where she was using him and setting him up to publicly fail. Nate's been a bit petty, that's all.

Nate should have told Ted how he felt. Instead, he bottled it up and had a tantrum. It’s all understandable given his background, but that doesn’t mean Ted did anything wrong.

Some earlier PP acted like Nate was an abuser who couldn’t turn things around. I disagree with that. It’s not like Nate has a long history of being a bully. He tried out the bully personality a few times after Rebecca told him to make himself big, but I think he’s realizing that isn’t who he wants to be. Nate just has to figure out how to be the nice guy that he is without being a doormat. That can be a hard balance to strike. Leadership isn’t natural for everyone.

Isn't this supposed to be a comedy series?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone remind me what Ted did that was so wrong to Nate?

NP and remind me what was/is wrong with Nate's family or background that PPs have referenced. It seems like he has a supportive family in the scenes I remember. But I'm probably totaling forgetting something.

Ted didn't do anything "so wrong" to Nate. However, last season Ted worked hard to recruit Roy to come back to Richmond as a coach, and in so doing, starts kind of ignoring/overlooking Nate. For instance, when there was an issue with one of the team members, Nate tries to step up to work with him, but Ted instead asks Roy to step in. Nate cannot compete with Roy's star power or gravitas as a former player, and feels shunted aside. Then when Ted has that on field panic attack and has to leave the game, Nate steps up and coaches the team to a win (earning the "wunderkind" comment he's now obsessed with) but afterwards the team dynamics continue as they were, with Beard and Roy being Ted's primary assistant coaches and confidants, and Nate being on the outside looking in.

None of this is intentional, and looked at from other angles, is all understandable. Ted assigns Roy to talk to the players because he has better rapport with them and DOES understand the psychological aspects of the game better. Ted just happens to connect more with Beard and Roy as people, leading to that feeling of Nate feeling like an outsider, but it's not an intentional slight by Ted. But you can also understand why Nate starts to feel undervalued and pushed aside. The introduction of Roy essentially demotes him after feeling like he was on an upward trajectory.

Regarding Nate's family, his dad simply never expresses any pride in him. Last season he tries to impress his parents and evoke some pride from his dad by taking them out for a special meal at their favorite restaurant (the Greek restaurant where Jade works). But his dad has no response -- he's just not a very expressive person and if he feels pride in Nate, it doesn't really show. Combined with the feeling of being pushed aside by Roy on the team, Nate's frustrating and resentment grows, priming him to turn on Ted and Richmond when Rupert comes alone with his offer.

When Nate and Ted have their confrontation at the end of last season, Nate's specific complaint to Ted is that Ted built him up and made him feel so special, and then just ignored him. The thing is that Nate has spent his entire life feeling overlooked in favor of people like Roy, and for a second Ted made him feel like it could be different, and then started overlooking him in favor of Roy. The resentment Nate feels toward Ted is not just based on their relationship, but on a whole lifetime of feeling not good enough, never good enough, no matter how hard or diligently he works to prove himself.

It's not Ted's fault but there are also things he could have done to prevent it, and Ted holds himself to a high standard on stuff like this. Sure he could say "get over it, Roy was the right guy for the job, learn to share the spotlight," but Ted is someone who has real empathy and he can see it from the other side, too, where Nate worked hard and earned a place, only to be bumped down again for Roy. It's complicated.

Anonymous wrote:Can someone remind me what Ted did that was so wrong to Nate?

NP and remind me what was/is wrong with Nate's family or background that PPs have referenced. It seems like he has a supportive family in the scenes I remember. But I'm probably totaling forgetting something.

Can someone remind me what Ted did that was so wrong to Nate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Roy failed Keeley because he doesn't understand relationships that well yet, he's not a Diamond Dog etc., he scorns that type of human understanding/camaraderie. But maybe he will understand his failing and become a part of it, gain a better understanding, and be able to be available as a partner. Whereas Jaime is kind of already there by himself, lots of growth from him this year.

I wonder what's going to happen with Nate. He's growing too but he's still changing his texts at the last minute from being open to being more guarded/negative, to protect himself and preserve his status, I guess. At some point Rupert's going to have to fire him if he's going to Break Good, so to speak. The season ends with the two teams in a championship game against each other, right?

I disagree about Nate because I don't think it can be viewed in such black and white terms. Yes, Nate changed his text on some level to please Rupert. But also -- Nate is still hurt by Ted's betrayal. Rupert is not just manipulating Nate right now. He's getting what he wants out of Nate by giving Nate what he clearly needs, which is attention, loyalty, protection. Whether those things last... well, based on what we know about Rupert, they won't. But I don't view it so simply as Ted is good and Rupert is bad and Nate will decide his fate by deciding between them. Ted really did betray Nate, even if he did it unintentionally (I think it hurts more that it was an accident, because it highlights for Nate the degree to which he was overlooked). And Rupert gave something to Nate that has been really valuable to him, even if he did it for the "wrong" reasons -- he gave Nate real trust and authority as the leader of their team, and in so doing has enabled Nate to find confidence in himself. Sure, he's a jerk about it, but it's based on something real -- Nate is genuinely really good at his job, and Rupert sees that and rewards him for it. Whereas Ted took it for granted.

None of this is praise for Rupert, who obviously uses, manipulates, and abandons people all the time and likely will do the same with Nate. But I don't think it's fair to the situation to make it seem like Ted's and angel and Rupert's the devil and Nate must choose a side. I think in reality what Nate needs is to love himself enough to be able to stand up for himself, whether it's to tell Ted "hey, you've been using my strategic skills all season without acknowledging that contribution, plus pushing me to the side to make room for your buddy Roy on the coaching staff, and I feel disrespected," or to tell Rupert, "look it's okay my old boss came to the match and I don't need you running interference for me, I'll handle it."

I think the Nate storyline is about Nate overcoming his inner demons, not about being lured to the dark side by Rupert. And Ted is far from blameless in that situation, and he knows it, too.

Ted was being Ted and opening the circle to make it bigger, for everyone. The same way he opened the circle to include Nate, when he was just a towel boy. I don't see that as Ted taking advantage of Nate. Ted made Nate what he is by nurturing him from the start. Nate wanted to be the center guy, and that was Nate's issue, not Ted's. jmho

Nate is doing better, a bit. He tried to apologize to Ted. He built that model thing for his potential date. He's trying to show people his real self. But with the texts, he's still hiding. And he's still obsessing over social media -- reading the Ted article instead of being present with his gf (though she draws him out of it).

I hope Nate and Ted repair things by the end, but I don't think Ted really owes Nate an apology. (Btw, look at what Roy has done for the team this year by working with and pushing Jaime so that he developed the skills and attitude to be the true "center" on the team to facilitate every team member's success. That's not something Nate would have/could have done, imho -- Nate's coaching style since he moved has seemed more regimented and militaristic -- and now look where Ted's team is, yay.

That moment where he's reading the article on his phone instead of paying attention to his partner - whoo if that wasn't very very relatable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see Rebecca finding the Dutch boatman. And Ted goes back to Kansas, and Nate takes over coaching Richmond with Roy who somehow becomes OK with that.

All of the above, and I had thought Keely and Roy, but am now thinking Keely and Jamie!

It has to be Keely and Roy! Though they're making that a harder and harder HEA with every episode that they don't spend more than two seconds together.

10000% yes to your other ideas for the ending.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Roy failed Keeley because he doesn't understand relationships that well yet, he's not a Diamond Dog etc., he scorns that type of human understanding/camaraderie. But maybe he will understand his failing and become a part of it, gain a better understanding, and be able to be available as a partner. Whereas Jaime is kind of already there by himself, lots of growth from him this year.

I wonder what's going to happen with Nate. He's growing too but he's still changing his texts at the last minute from being open to being more guarded/negative, to protect himself and preserve his status, I guess. At some point Rupert's going to have to fire him if he's going to Break Good, so to speak. The season ends with the two teams in a championship game against each other, right?

I disagree about Nate because I don't think it can be viewed in such black and white terms. Yes, Nate changed his text on some level to please Rupert. But also -- Nate is still hurt by Ted's betrayal. Rupert is not just manipulating Nate right now. He's getting what he wants out of Nate by giving Nate what he clearly needs, which is attention, loyalty, protection. Whether those things last... well, based on what we know about Rupert, they won't. But I don't view it so simply as Ted is good and Rupert is bad and Nate will decide his fate by deciding between them. Ted really did betray Nate, even if he did it unintentionally (I think it hurts more that it was an accident, because it highlights for Nate the degree to which he was overlooked). And Rupert gave something to Nate that has been really valuable to him, even if he did it for the "wrong" reasons -- he gave Nate real trust and authority as the leader of their team, and in so doing has enabled Nate to find confidence in himself. Sure, he's a jerk about it, but it's based on something real -- Nate is genuinely really good at his job, and Rupert sees that and rewards him for it. Whereas Ted took it for granted.

None of this is praise for Rupert, who obviously uses, manipulates, and abandons people all the time and likely will do the same with Nate. But I don't think it's fair to the situation to make it seem like Ted's and angel and Rupert's the devil and Nate must choose a side. I think in reality what Nate needs is to love himself enough to be able to stand up for himself, whether it's to tell Ted "hey, you've been using my strategic skills all season without acknowledging that contribution, plus pushing me to the side to make room for your buddy Roy on the coaching staff, and I feel disrespected," or to tell Rupert, "look it's okay my old boss came to the match and I don't need you running interference for me, I'll handle it."

I think the Nate storyline is about Nate overcoming his inner demons, not about being lured to the dark side by Rupert. And Ted is far from blameless in that situation, and he knows it, too.

Ted was being Ted and opening the circle to make it bigger, for everyone. The same way he opened the circle to include Nate, when he was just a towel boy. I don't see that as Ted taking advantage of Nate. Ted made Nate what he is by nurturing him from the start. Nate wanted to be the center guy, and that was Nate's issue, not Ted's. jmho

Nate is doing better, a bit. He tried to apologize to Ted. He built that model thing for his potential date. He's trying to show people his real self. But with the texts, he's still hiding. And he's still obsessing over social media -- reading the Ted article instead of being present with his gf (though she draws him out of it).

I hope Nate and Ted repair things by the end, but I don't think Ted really owes Nate an apology. (Btw, look at what Roy has done for the team this year by working with and pushing Jaime so that he developed the skills and attitude to be the true "center" on the team to facilitate every team member's success. That's not something Nate would have/could have done, imho -- Nate's coaching style since he moved has seemed more regimented and militaristic -- and now look where Ted's team is, yay.

DP. Totally agree with you, especially the bolded. Ted has done nothing to warrant apologizing for - he has been warm and welcoming to everyone, from the start. Nate simply overinflated the attention Ted was giving him - probably because he'd never been given *any* attention before. I think that with someone to love and love him back (Jade), Nate will slowly realize that Ted isn't the bad guy here. Quite the opposite.

I don't think Ted acted wrongly, but I do think he was distracted by stuff going on in his own life (totally understandable) and misread some of the dynamics on his coaching staff and some red flags with Nate. And Nate's response was also driven in part by stuff going on in HIS life, unrelated to Ted. I wouldn't say Ted owes Nate an apology, exactly, but I do think he owes him an explanation (I also think Nate owes Ted an explanation).

I sometimes see people frame this as Ted being "the good guy" and Nate being a villain, and not only do I disagree with this, but it's obvious Ted doesn't view it that way either. Nate made mistakes, but he's not a villain. Ted is a very decent person, but he also made mistakes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Roy failed Keeley because he doesn't understand relationships that well yet, he's not a Diamond Dog etc., he scorns that type of human understanding/camaraderie. But maybe he will understand his failing and become a part of it, gain a better understanding, and be able to be available as a partner. Whereas Jaime is kind of already there by himself, lots of growth from him this year.

I wonder what's going to happen with Nate. He's growing too but he's still changing his texts at the last minute from being open to being more guarded/negative, to protect himself and preserve his status, I guess. At some point Rupert's going to have to fire him if he's going to Break Good, so to speak. The season ends with the two teams in a championship game against each other, right?

I disagree about Nate because I don't think it can be viewed in such black and white terms. Yes, Nate changed his text on some level to please Rupert. But also -- Nate is still hurt by Ted's betrayal. Rupert is not just manipulating Nate right now. He's getting what he wants out of Nate by giving Nate what he clearly needs, which is attention, loyalty, protection. Whether those things last... well, based on what we know about Rupert, they won't. But I don't view it so simply as Ted is good and Rupert is bad and Nate will decide his fate by deciding between them. Ted really did betray Nate, even if he did it unintentionally (I think it hurts more that it was an accident, because it highlights for Nate the degree to which he was overlooked). And Rupert gave something to Nate that has been really valuable to him, even if he did it for the "wrong" reasons -- he gave Nate real trust and authority as the leader of their team, and in so doing has enabled Nate to find confidence in himself. Sure, he's a jerk about it, but it's based on something real -- Nate is genuinely really good at his job, and Rupert sees that and rewards him for it. Whereas Ted took it for granted.

None of this is praise for Rupert, who obviously uses, manipulates, and abandons people all the time and likely will do the same with Nate. But I don't think it's fair to the situation to make it seem like Ted's and angel and Rupert's the devil and Nate must choose a side. I think in reality what Nate needs is to love himself enough to be able to stand up for himself, whether it's to tell Ted "hey, you've been using my strategic skills all season without acknowledging that contribution, plus pushing me to the side to make room for your buddy Roy on the coaching staff, and I feel disrespected," or to tell Rupert, "look it's okay my old boss came to the match and I don't need you running interference for me, I'll handle it."

I think the Nate storyline is about Nate overcoming his inner demons, not about being lured to the dark side by Rupert. And Ted is far from blameless in that situation, and he knows it, too.

Ted was being Ted and opening the circle to make it bigger, for everyone. The same way he opened the circle to include Nate, when he was just a towel boy. I don't see that as Ted taking advantage of Nate. Ted made Nate what he is by nurturing him from the start. Nate wanted to be the center guy, and that was Nate's issue, not Ted's. jmho

Nate is doing better, a bit. He tried to apologize to Ted. He built that model thing for his potential date. He's trying to show people his real self. But with the texts, he's still hiding. And he's still obsessing over social media -- reading the Ted article instead of being present with his gf (though she draws him out of it).

I hope Nate and Ted repair things by the end, but I don't think Ted really owes Nate an apology. (Btw, look at what Roy has done for the team this year by working with and pushing Jaime so that he developed the skills and attitude to be the true "center" on the team to facilitate every team member's success. That's not something Nate would have/could have done, imho -- Nate's coaching style since he moved has seemed more regimented and militaristic -- and now look where Ted's team is, yay.

DP. Totally agree with you, especially the bolded. Ted has done nothing to warrant apologizing for - he has been warm and welcoming to everyone, from the start. Nate simply overinflated the attention Ted was giving him - probably because he'd never been given *any* attention before. I think that with someone to love and love him back (Jade), Nate will slowly realize that Ted isn't the bad guy here. Quite the opposite.

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who sees Rupert and is reminded of these coffee commercials he used to do?

Why is he using an American accent here? Strange, especially as the woman is British.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Roy failed Keeley because he doesn't understand relationships that well yet, he's not a Diamond Dog etc., he scorns that type of human understanding/camaraderie. But maybe he will understand his failing and become a part of it, gain a better understanding, and be able to be available as a partner. Whereas Jaime is kind of already there by himself, lots of growth from him this year.

I wonder what's going to happen with Nate. He's growing too but he's still changing his texts at the last minute from being open to being more guarded/negative, to protect himself and preserve his status, I guess. At some point Rupert's going to have to fire him if he's going to Break Good, so to speak. The season ends with the two teams in a championship game against each other, right?

I disagree about Nate because I don't think it can be viewed in such black and white terms. Yes, Nate changed his text on some level to please Rupert. But also -- Nate is still hurt by Ted's betrayal. Rupert is not just manipulating Nate right now. He's getting what he wants out of Nate by giving Nate what he clearly needs, which is attention, loyalty, protection. Whether those things last... well, based on what we know about Rupert, they won't. But I don't view it so simply as Ted is good and Rupert is bad and Nate will decide his fate by deciding between them. Ted really did betray Nate, even if he did it unintentionally (I think it hurts more that it was an accident, because it highlights for Nate the degree to which he was overlooked). And Rupert gave something to Nate that has been really valuable to him, even if he did it for the "wrong" reasons -- he gave Nate real trust and authority as the leader of their team, and in so doing has enabled Nate to find confidence in himself. Sure, he's a jerk about it, but it's based on something real -- Nate is genuinely really good at his job, and Rupert sees that and rewards him for it. Whereas Ted took it for granted.

None of this is praise for Rupert, who obviously uses, manipulates, and abandons people all the time and likely will do the same with Nate. But I don't think it's fair to the situation to make it seem like Ted's and angel and Rupert's the devil and Nate must choose a side. I think in reality what Nate needs is to love himself enough to be able to stand up for himself, whether it's to tell Ted "hey, you've been using my strategic skills all season without acknowledging that contribution, plus pushing me to the side to make room for your buddy Roy on the coaching staff, and I feel disrespected," or to tell Rupert, "look it's okay my old boss came to the match and I don't need you running interference for me, I'll handle it."

I think the Nate storyline is about Nate overcoming his inner demons, not about being lured to the dark side by Rupert. And Ted is far from blameless in that situation, and he knows it, too.

Ted was being Ted and opening the circle to make it bigger, for everyone. The same way he opened the circle to include Nate, when he was just a towel boy. I don't see that as Ted taking advantage of Nate. Ted made Nate what he is by nurturing him from the start. Nate wanted to be the center guy, and that was Nate's issue, not Ted's. jmho

Nate is doing better, a bit. He tried to apologize to Ted. He built that model thing for his potential date. He's trying to show people his real self. But with the texts, he's still hiding. And he's still obsessing over social media -- reading the Ted article instead of being present with his gf (though she draws him out of it).

I hope Nate and Ted repair things by the end, but I don't think Ted really owes Nate an apology. (Btw, look at what Roy has done for the team this year by working with and pushing Jaime so that he developed the skills and attitude to be the true "center" on the team to facilitate every team member's success. That's not something Nate would have/could have done, imho -- Nate's coaching style since he moved has seemed more regimented and militaristic -- and now look where Ted's team is, yay.